eBay

kerstingunnel · ‎06-22-2013

Since 2009 I have been and am a VERY happy eBay buyer. The recent surge of US based eBay sellers partnering with GSP, however, has me scratch my head. From what I can tell, it postures to solve a completely non-existing problem while creating a very tangible and substantial one.

In the years I have been buying on eBay, a shipment to me from the US has NEVER ONCE been halted at the Canadian Border Agency to accrue charges of broker's fees, sales taxes and import charges. I have NOT PAID A CENT EVER in such charges for shipments originating from US based eBay sellers. Shipments can be halted, but in my own experience, they rarely, if ever, are.

For each and every purchase from a seller who is partnering with GSP, however, such charges are paid (probably in addition to monies paid to eBay and GSP for their hand in the arrangement) and paid substantially. In a typical eBay transaction an item won at $26 cost $11.50 to ship and $9.51 (!!!) in GSP import charges.

Postal rates have gone up steeply for international shipping recently, adding to the sudden increase in the cost of shipping to Canada..

EBay may not be able to influence US postal costs, but the GSP partnership with eBay vendors is definitely an area of eBay's direct control and prerogative.

I will not buy from an eBay business who partners with GSP.

This year we Canadians number 35 million people and I'm sure that there are many of them who LOVE eBay as much as I do. Since this is a substantial market, I think it would be exceedingly foolish and myopic of eBay to jeopardize it altogether by taking GSP on board. Several eBay sellers I have contacted say that if the partnership becomes mandatory, they will cease to offer their listings to Canadians. Some have tried to work with GSP and find immediately that it doesn't serve them or their Canadian customers well - they have subsequently backed out of the partnership. Many have figured out beforehand and on their own that it wouldn't be in their interest or that of their Canadian customers and they have not opted for bringing GSP on board. All sellers say that they are encouraged by eBay to partner with GSP.

Every seller I have discussed this issue with was under the impression that this a valuable service devised to streamline the buying process and solve existing problems for their Canadian customers. This is, then, patently untrue. If this is how eBay, against their better knowing, "sells" the GSP program to their vendors, eBay actively misleads them. If eBay is unaware of the real state of affairs in regards to import charges, it ought to look into the factual situation more diligently before making such a serious move. It appears to be a predatory and parasitic practise.

It seems, thus, that the arrangement benefits GSP, eBay and the coffers of Canada. It doesn't benefit eBay vendors or their Canadian customers. In the end, since we all coexist and are interdependent, if it chokes or severely affects the Canadian market, only GSP and the government of Canada come out the winners, not eBay, not eBay sellers, not Canadian eBay buyers.

Other US based on-line businesses are partnered with similar programs for shipping to Canadian customers, which is one of the reasons I always prefer to buy on eBay.

Why fix what works perfectly well without fixing?

chimera148 · ‎06-23-2013

Yes, it's hard to understand how the GSP design and implementation methods and manner can be considered legal.

2020smoke2020 · ‎06-23-2013

I as an EBay member for years and having bought hundreds of item from the United States and have never once paid any type of IMPORT charges to Canada and I am absolutelety shocked at the ridiculous amount needed to pay for these fees. A $150 pair of Nike shoes costs $50 to ship which is fine but a $100 IMPORT charge???? So $300 to buy a $150 pair of shoes??? Are you kidding me? I am done with ebays US sellers. eBay should be Ashamed of themselves for allowing this Theft of buyers hard earned money.

Disgruntled EBay Buyer!!!!!!!!!!

intrepix · ‎06-27-2013

I simply refuse to bid or buy any item which shows it will be shipped with tracking and if I'm in doubt, I simply ask the seller if he/she will ship USPS Interntional and advise me of shipping costs prior to bidding or buying. Whatever doesn't work for me, I simply avoid buying it.

Anonymous · ‎06-28-2013

I have tried and order an item from US seller with GSP to see how it worked. I have received it yesterday and needless to say, I am NOT pleased as it is TOTALLY a scam on part of eBay for getting $$$$$ that way. I think it is illegal.

On my package, there is NOTHING that stated the import charges have been paid. Suppose it has stopped at the custom border and the custom border department decided to ding me with the import charges, meaning I would be paying the import charges TWICE?! It is all because there is NOTHING on the package to inform the custom border that I have paid the import charges.

And what is worse with GSP is that all packages has to be shipped by Priority Mail, meaning we have to pay way too high postage rates for that purpose (of course it would make USPS VERY, VERY HAPPY!!). Forcing the buyers to pay way too high postage rates for that purpose, doesn't make senses. I can understand with heavy and expensive items but not for photos, magazines, slide, fabrics, etc.

I noticed with my invoice at PayPal that the shipping cost and import charges (full amount stated) went to Pitney Bowers and nothing not even a pretty red penny go to the seller!

And what more it caused unnecessary longer mail delivery as the sellers has to ship the items to the US hub that eBay tell them to, and then US hub opened and inspect and then closed them and then send them to Canada.

The longer mail delivery may caused problems for the sellers in DSRs which the buyers can trash for slower shipping and the sellers may get negative feedback.

In reality there is NO protection from eBay for the sellers who opt in GSP. If you read the GSP information, you will see there is nothing protection for the seller regarding in that area.

Is that fair for sellers? As for sellers who opt in GSP are asking for it, thinking they get full protection when in fact, they don't get the full protection. What attract the sellers who opt in GSP is the 50% off final value fees, but at the same time, they would lose a lot of potential buyers from Canada and International who avoid them like plague.

I have many US sellers with GSP have opt out of GSP after I talked with them and many of them realized it is a scam by eBay. One of them told me that her sales went to zero for 5 weeks and when I asked her to opt out of GSP as I wanted to buy 2 fabrics from her and she opt out and bingo she got 8 sales in 5 hours from Canada and International!!

What eBay has done is that they are ruining the businesses, especially the small businesses by offering them GSP all just because eBay is becoming more greedy all the time. Those US sellers prefer to keep GSP is what I consider them as being paranoid and need to track the items outside Canada and may lose lots of potential buyers from Canada and International, good riddance to them.

I honestly cannot see how it would benefit all of us with GSP at all when it is actually a scam and bogus program.

I look forward to the day when eBay waving the white flag and "retire" this insane GSP!! Hopefully real soon.

sheepgal54 · ‎06-28-2013

the example you give shows how dishonest Ebay is. For a $26 item the GST is all that is owed, the rest is a 'collection fee' canada Post charges $5 to $10 to collect plus GST So your item example would only be$6.30 IF Canada Post collected for Customs. I am with you, its time to let the American sellers know that we will not buy from GSP collectors.

pierrelebel · ‎06-29-2013

"So your item example would only be$6.30"

On $26, the tax would vary from $1.30 to $3.90 depending on the residence of the buyer. Folks in Alberta only pay 5% GST. In the rest of the country it varies from 12% to 15%, assuming no duty is payable.

Canada Post charges an extra $9.95 administration fee (brokerage)

So the total charged by Canada Post would be $11.25 to $13.85 depending on the province of the buyer.

As stated so many times by so many posters, GSP is generally NOT suitable for Canadian buyers of low priced items (under $100). It may be beneficial for higher priced items with a high shipping charge as Pitney Bowes can ship to Canada at a much lower rate than most US sellers.

chimera148 · ‎06-29-2013

@2020smoke2020 wrote:
... A $150 pair of Nike shoes costs $50 to ship which is fine but a $100 IMPORT charge???? So $300 to buy a $150 pair of shoes??? Are you kidding me?...

Wonder where the shoes were made ?

chris65720 · ‎07-29-2013

I am afraid I have to join forces with the others who will not buy from US sellers who partner with GSP....the import charges ar bogus and simply a rip off by E-bay.

marnotom! · ‎07-29-2013

I never say never.

While I haven't made a GSP purchase yet, I've looked at a few listings for higher-priced items where it looks as though it could be quite beneficial to me, provided that there's a slim chance that I'd have to return the item. (Refunds for returns of GSP purchases are a whole different headache.)

00nevermind00 · ‎07-30-2013

GSP will never be an option for me, unless my buying pattern changes radically. The items I purchase are small and light weight, making the GSP prohibitive in every single case. But the way I see it, the real killer is the lack of combined shipping. Obviously the suits who designed the program have never purchased anything on eBay, never sold anything either and they didn't bother to check out how it's done.

I mentioned the lack of combined shipping during last week's board hour on the ebay.com site and received this reply from Jeff:

message*board*id... You're right that combined shipping is not supported through GSP at this time. It's something we're continuing to review.

Update: The GSP team pointed out the sellers should ship the item as purchased by the buyer. If buyer decides to pay for multiple item together, then a combined shipping discount for the international leg of the shipment will automatically be applied during checkout. For GSP, seller specified domestic shipping discount rules are not applied.

The reply came after the discussion had closed but if I'm available this coming Wednesday, I will ask for further clarification. How can a buyer pay for multiple items together unless the seller sends combined invoice? But sellers cannot send invoices to buyers located in GSP-covered countries. Details, we need details.

Here is the link to access the discussion on Wednesday, if anyone is interested:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Weekly-Chat-July-31-2013/m-p/16716865#U1671...

The official topic is the new community platform (another hot button issue!) but they welcome questions and comments about other topics as well.

marnotom! · ‎07-30-2013

@message*board*id wrote:

GSP will never be an option for me, unless my buying pattern changes radically. The items I purchase are small and light weight, making the GSP prohibitive in every single case. But the way I see it, the real killer is the lack of combined shipping. Obviously the suits who designed the program have never purchased anything on eBay, never sold anything either and they didn't bother to check out how it's done.

As I believe has been mentioned elsewhere, a problem with combined shipping with the GSP occurs when the total value of the purchases exceeds the tax/duty-free limit for a particular jurisdiction. A ten dollar shipment to Italy, for example, is not subject to VAT charges. However, a forty dollar purchase is. A buyer may end up saving on the shipping costs only to pay taxes and other import charges instead.

Strictly speaking, that's potentially a problem with all international shipments, but the fact that taxes and other related fees are pre-paid means that another invoicing routine has to be added to the GSP programming. And how do you get buyers to agree to different charges than those that they agreed to pay when they commited to purchase one of the items?

00nevermind00 · ‎07-30-2013

I'm sure it also doesn't hurt that PB/ebay are getting their fees on each of the uncombined shipments.

It's pretty obvious that nobody thought of the buyers and how they would react to all the fees when the GSP was on the drawing board. And from what I've been reading, a lot of them are voting with their back button.

This whole GSP thing is a case study in what NOT to do when implementing a new program. At first, the GSP charges were shown on the ebay.com site but not on the buyer's home site. A lot of buyers were blindsided by the charges at the time of paying. And for the longest time, the PB/ebay fee was rolled into the "import charges" even when the item was not taxable. This was confusing to buyers and a number of them seemed to think that PB/ebay were pocketing ALL of the "import charges", with no money going to the buyer's government. These problems have been fixed, but that kind of stuff leaves a sour taste in people's mouths and they usually don't want to go through it again. I'm sure this didn't help sell a program that is a hard sell to begin with, since the GSP makes items more expensive in the vast majority of cases.

And I'm not even going to go into how many sellers found themselves enrolled in the GSP without their knowledge or consent.

The GSP has been rife with problems from the start and remains so despite the few changes made to try and improve it. The one time I wanted to buy a GSP item, I asked a friend in the US with an ebay account to purchase it for me. He did and sent it to me, saving me a lot of GSP money and aggravation.

rykkm · ‎07-30-2013

Perhaps we, as Canadian buyers, should start making multiple posts on the dot.com board, expressing the concerns we have. As many have pointed out, I suspect many US sellers are unaware of the fiscal impact the GSP has on Canadian buyers. Pointing this out to them, and their realization that they are cutting off potential buyers by their participation in a program that really does not offer them any benefit might get them to rethink their participation in it. If enough of them drop the program, it dies a slow death. Money talks, and no sane business person wants to cut off a portion of their customer base.

Rick
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity" - Frank Leahy

reallynicestamps · ‎07-30-2013

On my package, there is NOTHING that stated the import charges have been paid.

While it might be comforting to have that statement, it is unnecessary. Your specific package is processed and the duty/taxes paid even before the item leaves PitneyBowes warehouse in the States. Then the sealed truck (or container, whatever) crosses the border without any reason for CBSA to look at it again. Hundreds of parcels, all with pre-paid tax/duty, in one sealed container/truck/ airplane hold.

Suppose it has stopped at the custom border and the custom border department decided to ding me with the import charges, meaning I would be paying the import charges TWICE?! It is all because there is NOTHING on the package to inform the custom border that I have paid the import charges.

But there is paperwork specifying that all the appropriate duty/taxes have been paid when the truck crosses the border. CBSA doesn't have to do anything more, since it is already done.

And since your postie does not have a specific instruction to collect anything (since it is already collected), he doesn't. Nor does the clerk at the PO when you have to pick up a parcel.

If you are faced with a clerk who thinks she has to charge you something, you can show her manager your invoice which has the amount of tax and duty (and the customs brokerage fee) stated. But since the clerk would have no idea how much duty to charge, I sincerely doubt that she would even try.

reallynicestamps · ‎07-30-2013

I guess I'd better be even clearer. The tax/duty is assessed and paid to the Canadian Border Services Agency-- the Canadian government--even though the assessment is done in the USA.

Anonymous · ‎08-02-2013

Why can't eBay allow our countries to decide if the custom border needs to ding the import charges on our parcels/packages?? It is obvious that eBay is out to make extra $$$$ for that purpose. eBay needs to get out of it and leave our countries custom borders to decide to ding us or not, not eBay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is ALL about eBay making more $$$$ that way, regardless of what. So to eBay, get out of it and leave that area alone and let our countries decide!!!! Thanks.

As for one of you saying that many US sellers didn't knew that they "opt in" this bogus scam program, it shows that eBay is all about getting $$$$$.

I bought 3 items, 2 items with GSP, 1 item with no GSP from the same seller and that seller was trying so hard for 2 days to send me the revised invoice of combined shipping but no luck. The eBay system JUST WON'T ALLOW it, meaning I get the invoice for 3 items with triple shipping costs!! It is all about eBay getting more $$$$$, charging final value fees on shipping that are triple, won't allow us to have combined shipping to save shipping costs. Shame on eBay for having dollar signs in their eyes.

As why I bought items from sellers with GSP? He has 3 items that I really want to have. Since then, this seller opt out of this bogus scam program, good for this seller!! Shame on eBay!!

pierrelebel · ‎08-02-2013

"He has 3 items that I really want to have."

And you blame eBay?

Buyers always have the option to buy or not.

The Canadian taxes collected from buyers by Pitney Bowes on behalf of the Canadian and provincial governments are remitted directly to the Receiver General for Canada by Pitney Bowes. eBay has no access and makes no money of the taxes.

As stated many times before, GSP is not meant for Canadian buyers making small purchases from American sellers. However, if Canadian buyers decide to proceed in any case because "they really want the item", then they can blame themselves for overpaying.

"The eBay system JUST WON'T ALLOW it"

The same situation applies when a buyer purchase items listed on eBay.ca and eBay.com. Or if a buyer purchases two items listed on eBay.ca from the same seller, one priced in Cdn$ the other in US$. They cannot be combined into one invoice. That is the way the system works. Folks adapt.

marnotom! · ‎08-02-2013

@Anonymous wrote:

Why can't eBay allow our countries to decide if the custom border needs to ding the import charges on our parcels/packages?? It is obvious that eBay is out to make extra $$$$ for that purpose. eBay needs to get out of it and leave our countries custom borders to decide to ding us or not, not eBay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um, eBay still does allow individual countries' customs bureaux to tax postal imports at their discretion. Your statement seems to suggest that eBay's completely taken over international shipping options and that's not the case at all. U.S. sellers still have the option of shipping directly to their non-U.S. buyers.

And non-U.S. buyers still have the option of not purchasing from sellers who use the GSP. Ain't choice wonderful?

It is ALL about eBay making more $$$$ that way, regardless of what. So to eBay, get out of it and leave that area alone and let our countries decide!!!! Thanks.

The money that eBay makes from the GSP is mostly from the FVF from the sales themselves, with perhaps a bit extra from PayPal. If you subtract the amount for taxes from a GSP sale's total import charges, there isn't a lot left for Pitney Bowes to play with.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Canada Post collecting ten bucks from recipients of postal imports where taxes have been assessed and charged?

As for one of you saying that many US sellers didn't knew that they "opt in" this bogus scam program, it shows that eBay is all about getting $$$$$.

While I agree that eBay's attempts to get sellers involved in the GSP have been ham-fisted, I do find it ironic that people are condemning eBay for trying to find a new revenue source when eBay itself is full of sellers who are trying to make $$$$$ by finding a niche to fill--a niche that may not even need filling. I mean, really, do most of us need most of the stuff that's available for sale on eBay (or anywhere else, for that matter)?

reallynicestamps · ‎08-02-2013

There is a workaround for the seller. It is slightly, but only slightly, risky for the buyer.

Ask your seller to send you a new invoice for the items through Paypal directly. Instruct him to enter the eBay transaction numbers on the invoice, which I believe still asks if this will be an eBay transaction.

Since the new invoice is not directly connected to the eBay system, he should be able to enter the correct agreed shipping amount.

Paypal's Buyer Protection is almost as strong as the combined eBay/Paypal Buyer Protection. The main difference being that if there is a problem, you would claim directly through PP, and not through eBay.

BTW, once the payment is made and accepted, both buyer and seller should mark the transaction as Paid on their eBay pages.