Global Shipping from US to Canada is an Environmental Disaster

[islandmatlow]

So here is the scenario, I purchased  phone from a seller in San Jose California. The seller shipped next business day and the phone went to Cincinnati Ohio. Then it was shipped to Erlanger Kentucky where it wallowed for three days with two different internal delays according to tracking documentation provided by EBay.

Then it was shipped to Ontario Canada and is (I am assuming on its way to me). I cannot tell as the tracking number EBay GSP provided for the Canadian leg is (as usual) invalid.

The phone if shipped via USPS would have gone from San Jose to Los Angeles to clear the USPS export place and arrived in Vancouver BC within 48 hours and been at my place the next day. Total time perhaps five business days with two carriers involved and total distance travelled about 1027 miles according to Google.

The actual distance travelled 5,569 miles and more than 10 days and I still will not have the package. Click below to see the route the parcel took to get to me!

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/San+Jose,+CA,+USA/Cincinnati,+OH,+United+States/Erlanger,+KY,+USA/Eto...

How on Earth is this more efficient and better for the environment?

Besides being slow, expensive and almost impossible to track packages, Global Shipping is BAD for the environment and that means bad for all of us.

[tammyjomayer]

islandmatlow, your point is exceedingly well-made. Maybe you should forward it to all those you can find who've had a hand in it. Who knows, maybe you'll actually change things for the better.

Thank you, very much, for caring.

Tammy

Ontario, Canada

[islandmatlow]

Ok I sent this letter via email and snail mail this morning:

28 February, 2015

Mr. John Donahoe
eBay Inc. Headquarters
2065 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, California 95125

Mr. Donahoe,

My name is XXXX XXXXX and I have been an ebay member (user name islandmatlow) for about 15 years. I live in Canada and purchase most goods through ebay sellers in the United States. Recently ebay has introduced something called the Global Shipping Program that supposedly makes it easier for US based sellers to sell internationally.

From the Buyer’s perspective the Global Shipping Program is ponderously slow, expensive, unable to offer tax or duty refunds in the event of a return, nor can one process duty exempt items such as an exchanged item and the tracking information provided by ebay is almost entirely useless. Those are my experiences anyway.

However despite the negative experiences I have personally had with ebay’s Global Shipping Program, the absolute worst experience is something we all share (whether we want to or not), namely ebay’s impact on the environment. Using ebay’s Global Shipping Program now forces sellers to ship packages by what can best be described as “circuitous” routes involving many more carriers than traditional shipping methods and denies sellers and buyers the ability to combine shipping of items.

ebay’s Global Shipping Program is simply terrible for the environment. So I decided I wanted to do something about the wasteful way ebay is shipping my item to me through their Global Shipping Program. I Googled “ebay environmental policy” and the first of 1.75 million results came up as an ebay blog article titled “Embedding Sustainability in Commerce”:

http://green.ebay.com/greenteam/ebay/blog/Embedding-Sustainability-Into-Commerce/31

The introduction reads as follows:

eBay Inc.’s business strategy is focused on shaping the future of retail (my emphasis) – one in which connected consumers access what they want, when they want it, wherever they are, and divisions between online and offline commerce no longer exist. We recognize that with change comes a unique opportunity to embed sustainability principles into this new commerce landscape. And we believe that in doing so, we can drive more innovation and build stronger relationships with our customers. From helping people make smarter buying decisions, to encouraging our selling community to run more efficient, less wasteful businesses, we’re testing out new ways of thinking and talking about sustainability within commerce experiences.

Pretty self-explanatory and I note the final paragraph in the same blog is about shipping and begins with the sentence; “One of the biggest environmental impacts of the eBay marketplace is the transport of items from sellers to buyers.”

I will now demonstrate how ebay’s Global Shipping Program’s methodology in “testing out new ways of thinking and talking about sustainability within commerce experiences” and how the result is that ebay is having a hugely negative impact on the environment. This is my package’s transportation story:

Recently I purchased a used mobile phone from a seller in San Jose, Ca. The item had to be shipped from San Jose, California to Nanaimo, BC, Canada, a distance according to Google maps, of 1027 miles. If shipped via USPS the item would have taken about 5 business days to get to me with two carriers involved namely the US and Canadian postal services and pretty well have moved in a straight line across the Earth’s surface to get to its destination. The seller did not use established couriers or the mail system but used the ebay touted and owned Global Shipping Program.

Instead of travelling somewhat directly between the locations, the item actually crossed the US to get to the US Post Office in Cincinnati Ohio, then onto the Global Shipping Centre in Erlanger Kentucky, followed by a trip due north to Etobicoke Ontario Canada and finally crossing back across the Continent on its way to the destination. The google maps total distance for the package is now 5,569 miles or 543% (yes that is five hundred and forty three percent) farther than it should have to get from seller to buyer. See link below:

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/San+Jose,+CA,+USA/Cincinnati,+OH,+United+States/Erlanger,+KY,+USA/Eto...

It is noted that the package also spent some time in the ebay center at Erlanger Kentucky as there were three separate delays at that facility according to the tracking information provided by ebay. It is assumed that the delays also resulted in extra handling of the package. The package will also have been handled by at least four different carriers during its lengthy trip to the destination.

On the ebay website there is a page titled “Using the Global Shipping Program” and under “Best Practices” there is a specific exclusion to combining shipping for different auctions from the same seller to the same buyer. There is however, nothing at all about sustainability or the environment on the entire Global Shipping Program site.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/shipping-globally.html

“Multiple orders (either belonging to the same buyer or different buyers) can't be combined, and need to be packaged in separate boxes.”

An item now travels 5 plus times the distance, is handled by twice as many people and items can no longer be sent via “combined shipping”. Obviously the last piece is a great revenue generator for ebay but I digress. I am assuming (I know assuming is bad but bear with me) that it takes at least five times as much fuel or energy to get my example package to its destination using ebay’s Global Shipping Program. Of course by not combining shipping anymore, buying all the LED light bulbs on ebay to change my car’s lights over will now take 9 different packages and 9 different shipments instead of one. If this is the “future of retail” count me out.

Could you please explain to me how on Earth this new ebay Global Shipping Program process is more sustainable for anyone? How can ebay rationalize the extra pollution and expense to the environment (not to mention the buyer as someone has to pay for all the extra travel and shipments) of this program?

Respectfully concerned,

islandmatlow

[maggiebvintage2010]

Thank you - a well-written missive.  But one person sending it to one other person (who has perhaps a vested interest in ignoring it) will, I'm afraid, mean it will go entirely unnoticed.

To try to get more visibility, why not forward this to Ina Steiner at ecommerceBytes.com:

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y15/m02/i26/s01

Why not post it to the US Boards so sellers can gain more understanding of how using the GSP impacts the environment?  And keep re-posting it or "bumping" it to keep it visible.

How about eBay's Facebook page? Greenpeace?  Here are some links to some US environmental groups:

http://www.aceee.org  http://earthfirstjournal.org  http://www.foe.org  http://www.greenpeace.org/canada/en  http://www.nrdc.org 

http://www.uspirg.org  http://www.sej.org  http://www.wri.org

I couldn't get the links to work correctly for some of those - sorry.  That's only a very few of the organizations.

Any experience with press releases?

And for that matter, why not make a more generic copy and give consent to everyone to use it, send it on, post it on Facebook?  By the way, what is John Donahoe's email address?

Most of the posts about the GSP centre around extra costs, damaged goods, inability to track, seller's ignorance, etc.  This is the first one I've seen that actually addresses a global issue that is important to everyone. 

[pierrelebel]

If buying goods by mail is "an Environmental Disaster", the distance traveled becomes a matter of degree.

Why not ban all purchases of goods sent by mail?

Why complain only about the "environmental disaster" of shipments going through Kentucky (GSP)?  Is there no more pollution if the parcel comes from China?

Maybe the use of the words "environmental disaster" is overstating the problem for parcels sent by mail!

[islandmatlow]

Hi pierrelebel, if the parcel had been sent by mail it would have had much less of an environmental impact, please see my letter above. The phone was probably made in China to start with and shipped over with many others in a single container, sort of uber combined shipping... I note that I am buying a used phone that would otherwise have been junked.

If I order something from China it probably does not go to Africa before it comes to the west coast of North America. Most likely it comes via the straightest most efficient route. I am not debating what method is the best way to ship an item I am commenting in the inefficiency of the Global Shipping Program. I suppose efficacy is a matter of perspective  when one controls the shipping and generates income from that shipping perhaps using a longer route and not allowing combined shipping is an incentive.

Imagine if a power generation company decided today to build a new generator five times as inefficient as its current technology. How long do you think they would last before they got roasted in social and conventional media. What do you think this inefficiency would be characterized as? Certainly not good for the environment. I characterized the Global Shipping Program as an "Environmental Disaster" because it is insidious in that most people do not realize how it actually impacts the environment.

[pierrelebel]

" environmental impact,"

Yes, I understand the " environmental impact,"

Your title and post refers to " environmental disaster".

Transportation of goods around the word - by road, by air or by sea - is a large consumer of energy in all forms.  Necessary evil unless we go back to the days of horses and buggy. 

Disaster?  Maybe not.

There are many problems with GSP including the fact it is not Canadian friendly and should be avoided by most Canadian buyers for most transactions.  However, I feel a loss of credibility when " environmental disaster" is used in that context.

Let's talk Keystone XL. Now that may be a "disaster".

[islandmatlow]

I am pretty certain just like in the days of horse and buggy, people did not send things five times further than other readily available transport systems. Imagine the Pony Express using that concept; cross the Rockies and the deserts twice to get one message across, no competent logistics person would today either unless they had a motive to do so.

Not sure how Keystone is a disaster when it does not exist except on paper.

Global Shipping Program exists and is creating far more pollution than Keystone is today. If Keystone were to be built it would take a good size spill to catch up to where the Global Shipping Program is in affecting the environment. Even if Keystone did spill it would be localized, Global Shipping like its name implies affects globally.

Back to the point that Global Shipping is causing a serious environmental impact and the disaster is that this version of ebay's "future of retail" vision was conceived, planned and executed  in the first place. The fact that no one at ebay apparently raised their hand and said "excuse me this is wrong" is a disaster. Even worse would be, if someone did raise their hand and was ignored...

[boxerblake1]

Just stop. Each shipment has hundreds, if not thousands of packages. It's not like yours is the only one being shipped at a time. The enviro-nonsense is nauseating. 

[hlmacdon]

---

@boxerblake1 wrote:

Just stop. Each shipment has hundreds, if not thousands of packages. It's not like yours is the only one being shipped at a time. The enviro-nonsense is nauseating. 

---

Not only do the trucks and planes have masses of parcels, ensuring that they are filled closer to capacity also helps lessen the environmental footprint. Anyone involved at retail understands how many times products move back and forth before ultimately arriving where they need to be. It is horribly inefficient by its very nature, but commerce has always been like that. The environmental impact caused by a less than optimal route on the last leg to the consumer is a rounding error at that point.

Ebay has some handy filters to locate sellers geographically closer to buyers if the goal is to reduce transit time and lessen the environmental footprint of one's purchases. If the goal is to make complaints about legitimate problems with an offered service, it is probably best not to sensationalize and focus on what the actual issues are.

[islandmatlow]

Yeah ok guys, I am pretty sure Loomis and Fedex etc. don't stay in business by driving around with empty trucks or flying empty planes. Nor is EBay shipping via individual drones...

Regarding the boxerblake1 comment about each shipment has hundreds if not thousands of packages. Absolutely I agree, all these packages get sent to Kentucky for consolidation via regular couriers before they get shipped to Toronto and back out west. Indeed all of the packages shipped from the west coast to Canada go the wrong direction for a thousand miles or more before they get delivered.

This is how Global Shipping works.

Purchase an item in Redmond Wa it needs to go to Nanaimo BC.

If one looks on a map one can see that they are less than 100 miles apart as the bird flies. There are regular consolidated shipments from Seattle to Vancouver or Victoria daily by all the major couriers. No problem 3 days maximum for delivery in a normal world

In the GSP world the package gets shipped from Seattle to Kentucky, from Kentucky to Toronto and from Toronto to Nanaimo. The trip takes 11 days and is over 3000 miles long. Yes this actually happened to me, with similar results for items purchased in Los Angeles and San Diego which all went to Kentucky first before heading to BC. A minimum of a week is added to the delivery time when shipped from the US west coast to the Canadian west coast.

To prove my theory I bought a part on Ebay from the same area in Wa and had it shipped to a drop shipper in Point Roberts Wa. That drop shipper is within 500 feet of the border and it got there in one day vs 10 days to get to the same area via GSP.

Normally when I purchase parts from So Cal they come straight up I-5 and hit Vancouver within 48 hours.

I am not a knee jerk, left wing, bleeding heart, granola crunching, tree hugger. I drive a one ton diesel and have similar other vehicles I use on my farm so am aware of my footprint on the planet. I sure as hell would not take my farm product to California in order to bring it to market in Vancouver (which is 50 miles away)

The one and only reason Global Shipping exists is to fatten EBay's bottom line. GSP is not there to make shipping more efficient. It does allow US vendors to ship to Canada and other countries without having to fill out the extra paper for the customs declaration.

I sent EBay's CEO a letter a year ago when I raised this initially. I got a response from one of his assistants with all kinds of verbiage about how EBay cared and blah blah blah. I kept the letter to use as an example of how one can write 200 words of condescending useless information and basically tell someone to buzz off.

The unintended consequence is that it as made guys like me look at other ways than Ebay to buy stuff in the US. I now purchase a lot of my farm bits and pieces directly from vendors without EBay in the middle. Takes just a bit longer to source stuff but far less risk of buying substandard junk and shipping is much faster. I also build a relationship with a supplier which doesn't normally happen at EBay.

[sarajess1213]

Exactly and I empathize with you. I have had many packages come from the US to me in Canada and while it was "International PRIORITY shipping" it took between 14 and 18 days.......the package well goes out of its way by thousands of miles whereas if it wasn't the global program it would have gone straight to me. YES - example it goes from Texas to Ohio, to Kentucky and in my case it stopped here in Richmond, BC postal center and then went ACROSS THE COUNTRY to Ontario and then was shipped back again ACROSS THE COUNTRY to BC again.......it was already here when it stopped in Richmond - about 25 miles away from me - it got shipped purposely to Ontario...and then back........it doesn't make any sense. I hate the global system. WHY is it even in existence? and WHY can't the seller just ship it straight to us? Rant over. lol.

[marnotom!]

---

sarahjessiechris wrote:

Exactly and I empathize with you. I have had many packages come from the US to me in Canada and while it was "International PRIORITY shipping" it took between 14 and 18 days.......the package well goes out of its way by thousands of miles whereas if it wasn't the global program it would have gone straight to me. YES - example it goes from Texas to Ohio, to Kentucky and in my case it stopped here in Richmond, BC postal center and then went ACROSS THE COUNTRY to Ontario and then was shipped back again ACROSS THE COUNTRY to BC again.......it was already here when it stopped in Richmond - about 25 miles away from me - it got shipped purposely to Ontario...and then back........it doesn't make any sense. I hate the global system. WHY is it even in existence? and WHY can't the seller just ship it straight to us? Rant over. lol.

---

US and UK sellers can still offer direct shipping to Canadian destinations if they choose to do so.  The GSP hasn't eliminated that possibility.

What you're likely running into are either sellers who can't wrap their heads around the fact that they can do that relatively economically and safely for smaller, modestly-valued items, or else you're running into sellers who haven't offered shipping to Canada on their listings, haven't blocked bids or purchases from Canadian buyers, and as a result have ended up having the GSP automatically applied to their listings by eBay.

Sellers can be encouraged to drop the GSP from a listing that has it and list using the postal system instead, but if they're not aware that it's on their listing in the first place it's probably going to be an exercise in frustration.

As far as your well-travelled parcel is concerned, I wouldn't trust the accuracy of the GSP's tracking information.

[riho.hod.lo5jvrxfe]

This is the first and last time I order something from the US through ebay.ca.  I ordered a replacement drive gear for my makita drill.  This Global Shipping is a real pain.  Delay after delay.   This morning it a delay because it may be a prohibited item.  Its a simple $27.00 US replacement part.  My wife and I have ordered many items fromm Lands End and Amazon and never have we experiencec such issues.  BEWARE if your item is shipped through Global Shipping. 

[reallynicestamps]

Normally I allow 20 days for any purchase to arrive from the USA, no matter what shipping service is used.

When did you order the part?

When was it shipped to Kentucky/GSP?

GSP, like USPS and Canada Post, uses a hub and spoke shipping system. with Erlanger KY as the hub.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoke%E2%80%93hub_distribution_paradigm

If your shipment is not delivered by the last estimated date that eBay gave you, you have 30 days to open an Item Not Received Dispute.

State in the Dispute that the shipment was made through the GSP.

The seller is not at fault in this*.

You have 30 days after the last estimated delivery date  for the Dispute.

If the GSP cannot prove delivery, you will be refunded.

*Well, the seller did use the GSP for a relatively inexpensive part, meaning that the buyer paid unnecessarily high import fees, which might possibly have been overlooked by CBSA and Canada Post.

[rpek9433]

This is exactly my experience in Saskatchewan except that it is only half the story!

PART 1:  Items that used to take 3-4 days to ship to Saskatchewan now take 14, 21, 30 days?  **bleep**!!!???   They are following the near identical route posted by islandmatlow.

PART 2: USPS seems to have partnered with Canada Post, our federal postal service.  Canada Post now does not "deliver" or "courier" our packages to our house.  They leave a card in the mailbox citing they "tried to deliver" which they did not - as this has been the same lame procedure now with 5-6 shipments...no delivery attempts at our office - straight to their postal "outlet" for the customer to pick-up.  Now I am paying for RIDICULOUS SHIPPING TIME and to add insult to injury I HAVE TO PICK THE F-ING THING UP!!!!

Why has this not been fixed in the first few months of operations!!!???

Go Amazon!  I wonder if ebay will figure out their Candian business has dropped by over 30% under this program? 

I am seeking any alternatives to ebay every time I online shop!

[femmefan1946]

Items that used to take 3-4 days to ship to Saskatchewan now take 14, 21, 30 days? 

I have been selling by mail order since around 1978. Including importing cast iron furniture from China.

A twenty day delivery period has been pretty standard within North America for all that time.

Saskatchewan may be slower because of a smaller more scattered population.

USPS seems to have partnered with Canada Post, our federal postal service.

That happened even before the Universal Postal Union treaty of 1874.

Actually, the first Postmaster General of Canada was Benjamin Franklin.

OK, of British North America, pre-rebellion.

They leave a card in the mailbox citing they "tried to deliver" which they did not

It would be useful to visit your local Post OFFICE, not postal outlet, and speak with the Postmaster about sloppy service by the carriers.

The PM will want paperwork so note the times you were in the office (this is a business and not a home?) and make copies of the delivery notices.

[jonball]

I have made my last eBay purchase using the Global Shipping. I will only purchase from sellers that ship USPS. This is the only way buyers have to influence the market. With their purchase power and enforcing eBay PayPal guarantee policies. Always demand compensation for poor service.

[reallynicestamps]

I agree that GSP is not a helpful program for Canadian buyers.

That is partly because it was set up as a Seller Protection program.

Your seller only has to get your purchase to the GSP plant in Kentucky using cheap domestic rates for tracking to have done his duty.

Always demand compensation for poor service.

The seller is not responsible after delivery to KY.

So he is not going to reimburse you.

You can leave appropriate feedback, of course.

If the shipment arrives within the estimated delivery time you got from eBay, no Dispute on delivery time will be supported.

Before you agree to pay, check what delivery time is supposed to be.

The GSP has been popular with sellers, popular enough that it has been extended to UK sellers. The sellers are seeing more, not fewer. international sales with the program.

LIke you, I do not buy from sellers who use the program. Timing of delivery is not something that concerns me, but I really get annoyed when I buy something that costs $20.01 CDN and the GSP charges me sales taxes and duty and a service fee. My Scottish soul curdles.

[*nightflight*]

The notion that a sellers commitment ends at a single way point is flawed. That's like saying shipping commitment with USPS ends with the first sorting facility. This is conceptually identical when when you envision end to end shipping. End to end shipping is all buyers and sellers should care about. ie, "Did you get what you paid for?" Hiding your seller responsibility behind a shipping hub is not a good business practice. In fact its downright foot shooting dumb.

I just got my first tasted to GSP as a Canadian today. It blind-sided me because I've not kept up with eBay as a seller or buyer for the last few years... and jumped on something I thought was a bit of a deal. Turns out... its not. Well, I won't make that mistake twice.

Unfortunately one of the items I purchase on eBay is pretty much not available anywhere else if I want these rare items, I have to use eBay.  Its unfortunate I have to filter out so many potential items because of GSP.