eBay

ca_cunn · ‎06-29-2015

One last question before I hang up my Ebay hat permanently...I bought an item from a seller, until I attempted to pay there was NO indication this seller does not accept Paypal. I was advised that I had to call him, after the sale, to give him my credit card information over the phone. I did look and apparently it is OK to take credit card payments but it specifies that payment must be made through an ONLINE, SECURE PAYMENT PROGRAM network. I wlll NOT just call up someone I have never done business with and hand over my credit card information. I guess since I will not be using Ebay , due primarily to the GSP and all its glory, any longer that I COULD just forget about this, but that is not the way I have done business in the past and would like to no what is or is not appropriate. Your comments would be appreciated.

pierrelebel · ‎06-29-2015

You have over 300 transactions on eBay in a year and you want to call in quit because ONE seller does not accept PayPal?

ca_cunn · ‎06-30-2015

No it is the cumulative effects of Ebay continually making life more and more difficult as a buyer and a seller. Why would I want to try to sell items here when the first thing that happens is I get hit with a twenty one day hold on my money. then they change the rules and make me fully responsible for a change of heart by a buyer and expect me to pay shipping both ways to a seller and back when he simply changed his mind?

As a buyer I am now faced with not being able to even tell how much it will really cost me to get an item here with the recent changes to the listings in the US GSP program. I can't even tell who is using the program and don't get to find out how much my purchase is going to cost to ship until AFTER I am committed to buy it. The GSP has been decried by Canadian buyers since its inception, yourself included. Ebays solution, hide the GSP and don't tell anyone until they are committed to make the purchase. I recently made an effort to go on Ebay.com to try to get sellers to opt out of the GSP. Every effort was met by being kicked back to EBay.ca. I appreciate that it is indeed their site, however since it is my money that is being spent, I do feel they have some perhaps very minor obligations to us. My general perception, since the invention of the GSP is that Ebay feels Canada while probably marginally profitable is not marginally profitable enough and that they want us to leave so they can shut it down entirely. So I am going to grant them their wish and find other sources of making my on line purchases.

My original question was however, is it permitted for a seller on Ebay to send me a message and say 'don't take Paypal, call me and I'll take you credit card numbers and make the payment for you?' I read the rules and it seems to me they are required to accept credit card payment only in a secure online payment site not ask me to give them my numbers and card info. That makes me very vulnerable to all manner of problems. That is my concern, not leaving this nest of vipers

femmefan1946 · ‎06-30-2015

I did look and apparently it is OK to take credit card payments but it specifies that payment must be made through an ONLINE, SECURE PAYMENT PROGRAM network.

The way many of our credit card customers did this was to email half the numbers and then in the second email the rest including the expiry date and the number on the back of the card.

The oneline secure payment part is the merchant running the card numbers. Not the email or the telephone call. (We also got cc payments by fax and by mail.)

There is a benefit for the merchant too. He gets the correct numbers and not a typo or a mishearing that takes ages to correct.

But most customers, even though we had a decent reputation after 35 years in business and published professional affiliations, preferred the anonymity of Paypal.

kxeron · ‎06-30-2015

@femmefan1946 wrote:
I did look and apparently it is OK to take credit card payments but it specifies that payment must be made through an ONLINE, SECURE PAYMENT PROGRAM network.

The way many of our credit card customers did this was to email half the numbers and then in the second email the rest including the expiry date and the number on the back of the card.
<snip>

Actually, I professionally strongly advise against this. Email is not compliant with the PCI-DSS (Payment Card Industry, Data Security Standard) that governs how card processing is to be done. Email is heavily insecure and really, that half and half thing doesn't do anything other than feel like it's secure. If someone compromises your email account or the customer's email account, the numbers are stored in plaintext and not encrypted (this is against PCI-DSS rules). The confidential information is also able to be accessed by employees of your email provider. Even if you were to delete the emails, they'd still be in the provider's backups (it's in the ToS of email providers that you consent to that), the CC numbers would also be latent on the hard drives of the servers again without encryption.

momcqueen · ‎06-30-2015

This must be fallout from the ebay/paypal split.

If the seller doesn't want your money, it's his (or her) loss. Was the item so unique that no one else has an alternative? I was under the impression that we as sellers are still required to accept it on the form used when sellers list their item. I don't recall there being a way to opt out of accepting it.

Personally, as a buyer, I would avoid any seller who refuses to offer paypal. You are well-protected with paypal. That's the whole point.

When I have buyers approach me to ask if they can send me email money transfers, I still direct them to paypal. For their own good.

Bottom line, if your seller won't accept paypal, it may be a seller that you don't want to trust with your money in any form.

momcqueen · ‎06-30-2015

@ca_cunn wrote:
No it is the cumulative effects of Ebay continually making life more and more difficult as a buyer and a seller. Why would I want to try to sell items here when the first thing that happens is I get hit with a twenty one day hold on my money. then they change the rules and make me fully responsible for a change of heart by a buyer and expect me to pay shipping both ways to a seller and back when he simply changed his mind?

As a buyer I am now faced with not being able to even tell how much it will really cost me to get an item here with the recent changes to the listings in the US GSP program. I can't even tell who is using the program and don't get to find out how much my purchase is going to cost to ship until AFTER I am committed to buy it. The GSP has been decried by Canadian buyers since its inception, yourself included. Ebays solution, hide the GSP and don't tell anyone until they are committed to make the purchase. I recently made an effort to go on Ebay.com to try to get sellers to opt out of the GSP. Every effort was met by being kicked back to EBay.ca. I appreciate that it is indeed their site, however since it is my money that is being spent, I do feel they have some perhaps very minor obligations to us. My general perception, since the invention of the GSP is that Ebay feels Canada while probably marginally profitable is not marginally profitable enough and that they want us to leave so they can shut it down entirely. So I am going to grant them their wish and find other sources of making my on line purchases.

My original question was however, is it permitted for a seller on Ebay to send me a message and say 'don't take Paypal, call me and I'll take you credit card numbers and make the payment for you?' I read the rules and it seems to me they are required to accept credit card payment only in a secure online payment site not ask me to give them my numbers and card info. That makes me very vulnerable to all manner of problems. That is my concern, not leaving this nest of vipers

It's not my intention to get into an argument with you here, but to set your mind at ease. There are a few misconceptions that I can see are borne of frustration.

The 21-day hold is annoying as a seller, I agree. Some of those funds are 'supposed' to be immediately released so that you can cover postage but, for me, that never happened even if I printed my labels with paypal shipping. They HAVE to hold that money as insurance that you are, in fact, an honest (new) seller and/or someone whose account has not been hacked. The three-week wait is given so that the buyer has a reasonable opportunity to receive the item and verify it is, in fact, what it is supposed to be. You might be surprised (or alarmed) to learn how many people open accounts only to buy two things for one cent each so that they're not brand new and then start selling as much as they can get away with within their selling restrictions. We're talking big ticket items too. Items that don't actually exist. It takes about two weeks for the victim to learn it was fraud, and a few more days to contact ebay. It has to be that way, it just does. Although, I do sympathize very strongly with you there.

You aren't obligated to pay return postage if your buyer merely changes his mind, only if the item is Not As Described or Busted in Transport. If it's case of buyer's remorse, they pay to return it to you, the same as I would have to get my own butt in my car and take back a pair of shoes to Sears if they were too tight. I will concede, however, that there are buyers who have figured out the way to have the seller obligated to fund return shipping is to open a Return for the wrong reason. If you suspect that is the case, report them and call ebay. Sometimes they can help, sometimes they can't but you have to persist.

The Global Shipping Program? Just ignore it. I do. As soon as I see the 'International Tracking and Customs whatever' in the subtitle of a search, I pretend that listing is invisible. I don't need that kind of aggravation in my life. But you need to be on ebay.ca to see where it is in place. ebay.com won't tell you.

And, no, do NOT call the dude with your credit card. Like no no no not ever. Does the listing say 'paypal accepted'? Every listing that I have ever seen on ebay.com says something like this.....

Payments:

Credit Cards processed by PayPal

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-30-2015

This must be fallout from the ebay/paypal split.

Sellers have never been required to take paypal but there are restrictions to what forms of payment they can ask for.

When I have buyers approach me to ask if they can send me email money transfers, I still direct them to paypal. For their own good.

No offense, but I don't understand that. If they had a legitimate problem I'm sure that you would look after them. So how would it be better for them to deal with Paypal? I can understand if you as a buyer don't trust the seller enough to use another method of payment but if you are the seller I would think that it is better for you to be in total control of the transaction rather than have Paypal in control.

Honestly, if I were in the OP's position I don't know if I would give them a cc number either, I suppose it would depend on how comfortable I was with the seller. I have given my credit card number to various small online sites over the years...this is a similar situation but I think that because the number has to be given manually rather than directly through a processor, the whole thing would seem odd.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-30-2015

Although I'm not a fan of the gsp, I haven't experienced them 'hiding' any of the information. It's always clear as to what I'm going to pay before I hit the buy it now button. With an auction it is a bit different because the import charges can go up as the bids go up.

momcqueen · ‎06-30-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
This must be fallout from the ebay/paypal split.

Sellers have never been required to take paypal but there are restrictions to what forms of payment they can ask for.

When I have buyers approach me to ask if they can send me email money transfers, I still direct them to paypal. For their own good.

No offense, but I don't understand that. If they had a legitimate problem I'm sure that you would look after them. So how would it be better for them to deal with Paypal? I can understand if you as a buyer don't trust the seller enough to use another method of payment but if you are the seller I would think that it is better for you to be in total control of the transaction rather than have Paypal in control.

Honestly, if I were in the OP's position I don't know if I would give them a cc number either, I suppose it would depend on how comfortable I was with the seller. I have given my credit card number to various small online sites over the years...this is a similar situation but I think that because the number has to be given manually rather than directly through a processor, the whole thing would seem odd.

Really? Real Estate or maybe ticket sales exempt? I am absolutely positive that the last time that I tried to uncheck that spot on the Selling form, I was given the message that in no uncertain terms I had to accept it. Maybe the major retailers are excempt but I am not.

And you're right, if there was any kind of trouble for my buyer, I would look after them without paypal needing to step in but I always discourage other forms of payment nonetheless because I wouldn't want to set an example where if someone sent me a form of payment with NO fall-out protection, they'd think it was also totally okay to do it with Big Tony Down on the Loading Docks and his Fell-Off-The-Back-of-a-Truck special.

So, I suppose given what you are saying that there are totally legitimate reasons for a seller to not accept payment but I give some guy my credit card info over the phone. Of course, you can still get it back with the credit card protection if something goes off the rails but.....

pierrelebel · ‎06-30-2015

"Real Estate or maybe ticket sales exempt?"

???

A seller does NOT have to offer PayPal on any item. Period.

In North America, the requirement is to offer online payment from specific providers. Most sellers offer PayPal because it is convenient. On the other hand, some sellers who already have a "merchant account" for their other business (online or brick and mortar) prefer to accept credit card directly instead of dealing with PayPal.

Over the years I have seen hundreds of such listings. I am surprised you never saw any.

For more information on eBay's official policy, please take a look at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

In other parts of the world, policies are different (cheques and bank transfers are welcome in Europe for example)

momcqueen · ‎06-30-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"Real Estate or maybe ticket sales exempt?"

???

A seller does NOT have to offer PayPal on any item. Period.

In North America, the requirement is to offer online payment from specific providers. Most sellers offer PayPal because it is convenient. On the other hand, some sellers who already have a "merchant account" for their other business (online or brick and mortar) prefer to accept credit card directly instead of dealing with PayPal.

Over the years I have seen hundreds of such listings. I am surprised you never saw any.

For more information on eBay's official policy, please take a look at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

In other parts of the world, policies are different (cheques and bank transfers are welcome in Europe for example)

I have never ever seen a listing where paypal is not offered. Not have I purchased from any seller on ebay ever from which paypal was not used as method of payment. But thank you for the link, I now stand on the record as corrected.

I am already familiar with the different and alternative online payment methods but I still thought paypal had to be at least one of them.

However, I must also stand by my earlier statement that I would NOT give anyone I didn't personally know to be ethical in business my financial data over the phone. 'Call a guy and read him my credit card information' still isn't an 'approved electronic payment method'.

ca_cunn · ‎06-30-2015

381301429126 , This is the listing number of which I speak. I can see no reference to not taking Paypal and was told AFTER the sale finished to contact him to give him my CC #'s. I think I will just tell him to relist as this is getting to be a ton of hassle no matter how I go about it. Thanks for your input people! Hope you all continue to enjoy success but to me Ebay is no longer viable as a purchasing site nor as a selling venue.

pierrelebel · ‎06-30-2015

The listing clearly shows the seller taking VISA and MasterCard only.

No mention of accepting PayPal on the listing page or under the Payment tab

If you only wanted to pay through PayPal, you should not have purchased this item.

Here is a very established seller with feedback rating exceeding 10,000. I see no problem in calling the seller and giving him the credit card information as requested. You are fully protected by your credit just as you would be with PayPal.

momcqueen · ‎07-01-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
The listing clearly shows the seller taking VISA and MasterCard only.

No mention of accepting PayPal on the listing page or under the Payment tab

If you only wanted to pay through PayPal, you should not have purchased this item.

Here is a very established seller with feedback rating exceeding 10,000. I see no problem in calling the seller and giving him the credit card information as requested. You are fully protected by your credit just as you would be with PayPal.

I do not ever like to disagree with you, Pierre, given that you have vastly more experience on ebay than I. You are correct in that it is very clearly stated that he takes Visa and MasterCard only with no mention of paypal at all. However, the 11 negative feedbacks within the past month does give me some concern. I can see that they are all from a single irate buyer but those, combined with the other negatives and neutrals makes me wonder if there is a specific reason that the seller doesn't accept paypal on his listings anymore.

pierrelebel · ‎07-01-2015

I had noticed the feedback from one buyer and did not bother me.

" makes me wonder if there is a specific reason that the seller doesn't accept paypal on his listings anymore. "

???

Interesting speculation. I checked the oldest listing I could find where access is still available (listed in March, sold early April) and the seller was not accepting PayPal at the time. Listing 381214210377 So that one buyer leaving multiple negative feedback had nothing to do with the seller's policy not to accept PayPal. In many instances, if you already have a "merchant account", it is cheaper for the American seller to accept a credit card through a merchant account than PayPal.

This is a seller selling thousands of items a year on eBay. I honestly do not see a problem nor any additional risks in paying with a credit card.

davispron_0 · ‎09-15-2017

have just removed every listing under the ebay canada because I do not wish to use paypal . I use authorize . net on the Ebay US , have 4 online website and sell on amazon ... Theres no way paypal will get any of my sales % .

momcqueen · ‎09-15-2017

This thread has been dead for more than two years. I'm not certain it's the best place to post new information.

reallynicestamps · ‎09-18-2017

ZOMBIE THREAD FROM 2015

tyler@ebay · ‎10-12-2017

Hey everyone,

Due to the length of time that has passed since this thread began I have locked it from future replies. If this is still an issue that warrants discussion, don't hesitate to begin a new thread!

Tyler,