Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

I live in Canada and I have been buying with eBay since the 90's. My question is: Whats up with Pitney Bowes GSP?

I know it isn't new but I always just didn't buy from sellers using them, NEVER EVER have I been charged import fees!

So a few weeks ago I bought two of the same item from two different sellers in NJ, with one Item using Pitney Bowes. The one using Pitney Bowes charged an extra $30 CAD on top of shipping and shipped the item with USPS. The item I bought without Pitney Bowes service also shipped with USPS. When delivered, I wasn't charged an import fee for either. So what was the point of the $30 I paid?

Can someone explain why this service exists other than to provide that company with money they DO NOT deserve?

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

marnotom!
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The "point" of Pitney Bowes, or the Global Shipping Program (which is actually more like a forwarding service), is to make international shipping pretty much as straightforward as domestic sellers for the many US and UK sellers who get the heebie-jeebies from the idea of shipping out of the country.

The supposed benefit to us buyers is that there are now more sellers offering their items to us Canadians (and about 99 other countries) than without it.  Whether or not it's worth the costs and quirks that are often involved--particularly for smaller and less expensive items--is a whole different ball of wax.  As far as eBay is concerned, international sales are up, and therefore the program is a success.

 

Any postal or courier import with a declared value of C$20 or more is subject to charges of taxes (PST/GST/HST) and duty (if applicable).  However, Canada Border Services isn't particularly diligent about assessing and charging those fees, so you've just been extremely fortunate with your past purchases from the US.  As a result, you've managed to get most of your US purchases tax free, and avoided paying Canada Post's C$9.95 processing charge, as well.

Like any shipping method, there are situations where the Global Shipping Program may make sense if you're willing to tolerate the program's quirks.  Express Mail is a lousy way to ship postcards, but a not too shabby way to move larger, more expensive shipments.  The Global Shipping Program is generally lousy for shipping small, modestly priced items, but better for larger, more expensive items.

I probably would have never considered buying mobile phones on eBay prior to the GSP.  Sellers who did ship outside of the United States tended to use expensive, overkill shipping methods that would have seen me pay not only taxes due, but huge customs clearance-related fees upon receipt.  With the GSP, I paid shipping rates that were comparable to letter mail (First Class International) and Pitney Bowes took less than US$5.00 in processing fees on top of the taxes.

Glad that Amazon seems to be working out for you.  It hasn't for me.  I've found that the items I'm looking at are way more expensive in Canada than they are in the United States, which leads me to conclude that Amazon is burying its "import charges" into the item cost.  eBay or Pitney Bowes seem to be doing something similar in some listings, except that the "import charges" are buried in the shipping costs.  

Info on CBSA's postal/courier import program can be found here:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/courier/menu-eng.html

 

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

Can someone explain why this service exists other than to provide that company with money they DO NOT deserve?

 
It has nothing to do with you, the buyer.
It's a Seller Protection program, which protects Sellers from unwarranted claims of non-delivery, since they only have to deliver to the GSP plant in Kentucky.
They are also protected against negative feedback for duty and sales tax charges in the buyer's country, which the Seller knows nothing about and can do nothing about.
 
The money you were charged went to the Canadian government for duty (if any, there is none on used products nor on some electronics. Also NAFTA manufacturers.) and SALES TAX.  PB gets ~$5 of the import fees for wrangling your purchase across the border.
That compares with the ~$10 Canada Post service fee and the $25+ service fees of UPS, FedEx and the like.
 
Remember that we are supposed to pay duty and sales tax on any item over $20CDN (~$16USD) . The CBSA sensibily ignores this on low value and small items, but the law is there and commercial shippers must obey it.
 
The GSP again is not useful for Canadian buyers of small and inexpensive items.
It is useful for large and high value items.
 
For changes in the duty free allowance write your MP
House of Commons
Ottawa ON K1A 0A6
 
You don't even need to stamp the envelope.
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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

Well it does have A LOT to do with the buyer since we pay for the service. The behind the scenes stuff about the program is irrelevant to the BUYERS of the items that pay for a service they don't need or in most cases want. I just posted this because as a buyer it makes no sense for me. I bought a media streamer box from New Jersey and a remote for it from mainland China, guess which came to me first (Toronto) yup, the remote from China. Thanks to GSP sending the package thousands of miles in the opposite direction!

 

While I understand the ease GSP provides the seller for a process that the rest of the online selling world does without it, I don't see why its masked as a service aimed to benefit the buyer. It just doesn't.

I never get charged import fees. and it isn't just luck, even on large items (I've ordered a area rug that was 6ft in length and a oven hood range)

I get packages faster when not using GSP

 

I would totally understand if there was an option to opt out of GSP on checkout. maybe it makes sense for people living in other countries or areas than I do. 

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?


@jdnaw-whim wrote:

 

Well it does have A LOT to do with the buyer since we pay for the service. The behind the scenes stuff about the program is irrelevant to the BUYERS of the items that pay for a service they don't need or in most cases want. I just posted this because as a buyer it makes no sense for me. I bought a media streamer box from New Jersey and a remote for it from mainland China, guess which came to me first (Toronto) yup, the remote from China. Thanks to GSP sending the package thousands of miles in the opposite direction!


You're basing your findings on the GSP on one purchase.  I'm basing mine on two.  Not much better, but I don't think either of us can make sweeping statements about the program based solely on what we've purchased.

I purchased cases for both the mobile phones I purchased that were forwarded through the GSP.  These cases were shipped by US sellers who were not using the GSP.  In both instances, the cases arrived after the phones, although in fairness one might have been dropped shipped or the seller may have used some strange mail consolidation service, or both.  What's more, I'm in BC and one of the cases was from a seller in California, so you'd think it would have been a quick trip up the west coast to me.  Nope.

I don't know how to respond to your point about the irrelevance of the "behind the scenes stuff" because I'm not sure what you're specifically referring to or why you feel it's irrelevant.


@jdnaw-whim wrote:

 


While I understand the ease GSP provides the seller for a process that the rest of the online selling world does without it, I don't see why its masked as a service aimed to benefit the buyer. It just doesn't.

I never get charged import fees. and it isn't just luck, even on large items (I've ordered a area rug that was 6ft in length and a oven hood range)

I get packages faster when not using GSP


Again, my experience, as limited as it is, is different than yours.  Those mobile phones would have cost me a heck of a lot more if I had purchased them from sellers who did not use the GSP.

Agree that there's a lot of marketing jiggery-pokery behind the GSP when it comes to presenting it to potential buyers, but you do get what's on the tin if all goes to plan.  Pitney Bowes pays your HST and duty up-front, you pay them back, and you don't pay anything on receipt.  With carriers such as UPS and FedEx, you're either paying a lot more for them to do that, and sometimes not until you receive the items.

So if it's not "luck" that allowed you to escape paying the HST (and duty, if applicable) on the items that you've purchased in the past, what is it?

And how do you know your "import charges" weren't buried in the shipping charges or item charges?

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?


jdnaw-whim wrote:

NEVER EVER have I been charged import fees!

 


If you don't accept that you have been "lucky" (whenever I escape having to pay taxes I owe I always feel lucky) then it can only be that the items you bought were of such a low value they weren't worth the bother to collect a dollar or two.  Most people who buy with any regularity sooner or later get charged, even on items below $100.  

 

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/courier/menu-eng.html

 

 


jdnaw-whim wrote:

 

The one using Pitney Bowes charged an extra $30 CAD on top of shipping and shipped the item with USPS. The item I bought without Pitney Bowes service also shipped with USPS. When delivered, I wasn't charged an import fee for either. So what was the point of the $30 I paid?


Can you post the listing numbers or a screen shot of these?  I think everyone would like to know where your extra $30 went.  

 

MY question is if you bought 2 of the same, Why would you buy any at all from a seller where you will be paying so much extra?

 

 


jdnaw-whim wrote:

 

Can someone explain why this service exists other than to provide that company with money they DO NOT deserve?


I'm not sure if "deserving" is really an issue.  It is an expensive, maybe even overpriced shipping service, to be sure.  It exists to bring in more money to the US.  EBay is an American company, a large and influential one.  The GSP came in so that sellers who did not want to sell outside the US didn't have to.  Tacking the GSP on their listings had them "sell" to Kentucky, and from there Pitney-Bowes handles the transaction.  But the sale itself was an American one, no matter where the buyer was.  

 

You, the buyer, pay a high fee for this convoluted process but your money goes into the American economy.  Americans do not buy via the GSP from other Americans.  It is the rest of the world that pays for it.  Yet more American items sell.  Without the GSP, the rest of the world might buy from Germany, or Spain, or Canada.   🙂    It takes money from all over the world and gets it flowing into the US.  

 

It is good for American sellers because it is basically a TOTAL protection policy for them.  Sometimes things will go wrong, but sellers are protected when P-B refunds out of their own coffers, not the seller.  That type of 'insurance' is covered in the high shipping fees you pay.  The money has to come from somewhere, doesn't it.  

 

 


jdnaw-whim wrote:

Well it does have A LOT to do with the buyer since we pay for the service. The behind the scenes stuff about the program is irrelevant to the BUYERS of the items that pay for a service they don't need or in most cases want.


I don't think I fully understand your comment.  You only pay for whatever service you choose to use.  I have never bought through the GSP because it just costs too much.  Even without any import charges (usually around $5-$10 on the little things I look at) the GSP shipping charges are too high for me to consider buying.  

 

You say the  behind the scenes stuff about the program is irrelevant to you, but what do you mean?  That you don't care WHY there is a GSP?  No one can make you care about anything you are not interested in but to say it is not relevant, I don't think that is quite correct.  The "behind the scenes stuff"  regarding how Canada Post gets your items to you might be "irrelevant" also but I don't see anybody getting all mad about it.  And CP is an expensive service as well.

 

The point is to understand why the GSP is on eBay listings, whether you "like" the GSP or not.  Not many people like it, that's true.  I think what is bothering you is the same thing that bothers most potential buyers.  They see items they like and could "almost" afford if it weren't for that overpriced shipping, having to pay $37 to mail a $9 item the size & weight of a package of coffee.  

 

Know that if it were not for the GSP those listings would not be available to you in Canada.  They would be sellers who have their listings set up to only ship within the US.  Most would have blocked off communication from anyone outside the US so you couldn't even ask if they would make an exception and mail to you.  

 

It would be like looking at a listing with the banner "Previously unavailable" over it only now you pay a high premium to get it.  

 

 


jdnaw-whim wrote:

I don't see why its masked as a service aimed to benefit the buyer. It just doesn't.


Good point!  It is actually quite laughable the way they try to pass it off as being good for buyers too.  Well it isn't.  I suppose if we were to stretch things to the limit we could say an item that arrives damaged will eventually be refunded by P-B.  There is a process to go through but you don't have to fight a reluctant (and sometimes rude) seller.  Any item coming via the GSP will at least arrive.  They have been hard to track, but it is a sure thing the item will get to its destination.  

Scraping the barrel, isn't it.   🙂 

 

Why is anything masked as having benefit to the person who is intended to pay for it?  Because that is the way of the world.  Ads are full of overpriced things that no one needs and few want but ad campaigns make us think we can't live without.  

 

 


jdnaw-whim wrote:

I would totally understand if there was an option to opt out of GSP on checkout. maybe it makes sense for people living in other countries or areas than I do. 


That would be so good, wouldn't it?  Not at checkout because it is always up to the seller to choose the service and if you don't like it don't buy.  Even where sellers do not choose to use the GSP but it was stuck on their listings without their knowledge or permission, these are sellers who have previously decided they do not want to sell to Canada so their listings would not have been visible earlier.  

 

I'm thinking a GSP-free option on the Search page, like when we use the left side ITEM LOCATION and pick North America, under that there would be an "Exclude GSP listings" option.  

 

It will never happen.  It has been brought up many times on these boards.  EBay likes the GSP, is going to staggering lengths and expense to make it more acceptable to buyers, and it will never ever go away.  Therefore it is up to buyers who don't like it to learn to shop without it.  

 

Use List View so you can scroll down easily.  When you see that line about "Customs services", don't even look at it.  It's a GSP item and the only way to avoid them is to not click and not look. 

 

 

GSP ITEM.jpg

 

 

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

I'm thinking a GSP-free option on the Search page, like when we use the left side ITEM LOCATION and pick North America, under that there would be an "Exclude GSP listings" option.  

 

It would be the easiest way to deal with the dislike Canadian buyers have for the program.

The other suggestion that the buyer could refuse to allow GSP to be used would not be good, since control of shipping must remain in the seller's hands.

We've seen too many naive sellers cave in to demands for 'cheaper' shipping, which all too often leads to using a slow or untracked service followed by a INR claim and loss.

 

Better would be a Warning to US and UK sellers that their item has the GSP option enabled, but that eBay does not recommend using it for items under $XX,xx value. The Warning should be on the Sell Your Item form.

 

OOOOOH!

Here's an idea eBay will like.

Charge sellers a small amount to use the GSP.

Maybe a nickel, less if they are Top Rated Sellers with hundreds of annual sales.

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?


femmefan1946 wrote:

 there would be an "Exclude GSP listings" option.  

 

It would be the easiest way to deal with the dislike Canadian buyers have for the program.


 

IMO it would be better for eBay.  How many people have run into the GSP, and sure maybe didn't fully understand it's convoluted and sneaky processes, but felt they were taken advantage of, "ripped off" or "scammed" to use some of their favorite words, and never came back to eBay again?   

 

EBay can blame Canada's de minimis all they want, but even on items where there is no tax, like a $10 USD item, the GSP is STILL too expensive.  Plus there is no uniformity to the charges.  On a 1 pound First Class package, people can see what that should cost.  With the GSP, shipping charges can range from $15 to $50 for similar items, sometimes even the same item.  

 

I don't think there will EVER be an "exclude GSP" option even though I have no doubt it would be better for eBay.  If people just once feel they were overcharged, they aren't going to come back.  People do not like that program, for good reason, and eBay's position of "Tough. If you don't like it you can lump it", will do far more to drive buyers away than a handful of sellers who don't always mail the item the same day it was paid for.  

 

EBay can whine all they want about what drives buyers away but they're pointing their finger in the wrong direction.  

 

 


femmefan1946 wrote:

 

The other suggestion that the buyer could refuse to allow GSP to be used would not be good, since control of shipping must remain in the seller's hands.

 


It's like I said in my previous post, sellers need to choose the service.  It doesn't make sense that a buyer could ever choose the service from a particular seller.  What buyers CAN do is buy from the seller who offers the service they want, ie, USPS First Class, which is still the best way to mail most items.  

 

It used to be that way with Priority.  There were sellers who would only use Priority.  That's the sellers right, but a buyer did have the choice (still does) to buy from someone else. 

 

If eBay thinks that the GSP is good, and that people won't mind using the GSP, then they should have nothing to fear from offering a GSP-free Search option to all international buyers.  

 

 


femmefan1946 wrote:

 

Better would be a Warning to US and UK sellers that their item has the GSP option enabled, but that eBay does not recommend using it for items under $XX,xx value. The Warning should be on the Sell Your Item form.

 


But what would the value be, and for which countries?  The problem with approaching sellers is that too few of them care.  The majority of GSP sellers are those who did not want to sell outside the US (or UK) anyway.  They STILL want to only sell locally so if someone doesn't buy their item because of the GSP, they are not going to be too fussed about it.  

This would be of particular concern for sellers in the UK where to mail small low-value items internationally there is no affordable tracked option.  That would place their items at risk, one of the reasons they don't want to sell internationally in the first place.  Tracking on those items would have them back at square one.  

 

 


femmefan1946 wrote:

 

OOOOOH!

Here's an idea eBay will like.

Charge sellers a small amount to use the GSP.

Maybe a nickel, less if they are Top Rated Sellers with hundreds of annual sales.


 

LOL!  How about a percentage, like 10% of every sale!  The TR & Power sellers can get a discount.   :-D  

 

 

 

There now.  I think I'm all ranted out for the day.  I need to go do something productive.  

 

 

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

 


Again, my experience, as limited as it is, is different than yours.  Those mobile phones would have cost me a heck of a lot more if I had purchased them from sellers who did not use the GSP.



I started this topic because I had the rare scenario to test out the difference between a GSP auction and a regular one. Buying two of the same item, from the same place and both shipping to me (and at the same time an item from China). 

But this wasn't my first experience with GSP, just the one that broke the camel's back.

in the past when eBay started with GSP you would get the promise of great shipping but a tracking number that never worked. When the item arrived it was always obviously (and annoyingly) opened up, checked and had an eBay sticker saying GSP repackaged it (the Boarder service didn't do it because they wouldn't have eBay stickers).

This time I had the privilege of testing to see what the extra $15 in shipping went toward, here's what I found:

 

1. It was slower than the NON-GSP auction to arrive to me

 

2. The Package was shipped in the opposite direction! (NJ to Kentucky then Ohio then to Toronto, Ontario? Why?)

 

3. It was more expensive

 

4. The package from China got to me first! (in any situation, the distance in geographical distance is huge, either Chinese eBay sellers are stepping up their game or GSP is VERY slow)

 

5. Most things I get come repackaged, like they tried to reduce weight and pocket the money saved shipping out from Kentucky

 

I do stand by the idea of an option to opt out of GSP service on checkout or to filter it out of the searches.

The only downside that buying from China had was that the shipping was slow, but now that seems not to be the case anymore! And that's an alternative to GSP.

Also another online site named after a particular rain forest *ahem* amazon, are at least very transparent with what they're charging you. 

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?


@jdnaw-whim wrote:

5. Most things I get come repackaged, like they tried to reduce weight and pocket the money saved shipping out from Kentucky

 

I do stand by the idea of an option to opt out of GSP service on checkout or to filter it out of the searches.



Your #5 is a misconception that has been floating around since the day the GSP was introduced (or so it seems). But if you think about it for a minute, it makes no sense.

 

The workers at the GSP plant in Kentucky don't work for free. Opening the package, removing most or all of the item's protection and resealing all take valuable work time that could be put to use towards something more productive, like processing other packages. Not to mention the fact that such packages would be left more vulnerable to damage, creating yet more work and expenses for Pitney Bowes (GSP operator) in the form of claims processing and refunding.

 

It makes zero sense.

 

It is far more likely that packages are being opened because many sellers aren't including enough information for the purpose of preparing customs paperwork.

 

A checkout opt out option will never happen because the shipping method is chosen by the seller, not the buyer. As a buyer, you get to vote on a seller's choice of shipping methods with either your bid/buy button or your back button.

 

An option to filter out all GSP items from one's search would be ideal, but pigs will fly before eBay gives us one. It doesn't really matter because they do give us the next best thing: use List View (not Gallery View) to search for items. With List View, all GSP items will be identified by a blurb in pale grey font which reads: "Customs services and international tracking provided." When you see this blurb, just keep going without clicking on the listing.

 

Last but not least: Don't use a phone to search for items. Use a desktop or laptop computer.  Some important information, such as GSP indentification, seems to be missing when using a phone.

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?


@jdnaw-whim wrote:
in the past when eBay started with GSP you would get the promise of great shipping but a tracking number that never worked. When the item arrived it was always obviously (and annoyingly) opened up, checked and had an eBay sticker saying GSP repackaged it (the Boarder service didn't do it because they wouldn't have eBay stickers).


I've never seen a promise of "great shipping" from the GSP.  Only a bunch of marketing hoo-ha-rah that suggests that it's different than what you usually get.  As far as the tracking goes, it works but not the way most people are accustomed to it working.  References to the tracking information being accessible online were removed from the GSP terms and conditions for buyers some time ago.

I've also never seen a GSP sticker about the item being "repackaged" on either my items or ones my wife has received.  I've seen stickers saying that the item has been resealed, which to me is a different ball of wax.  00nevermind00 has a good explanation of this.


@jdnaw-whim wrote:

This time I had the privilege of testing to see what the extra $15 in shipping went toward, here's what I found:

 

1. It was slower than the NON-GSP auction to arrive to me

 

2. The Package was shipped in the opposite direction! (NJ to Kentucky then Ohio then to Toronto, Ontario? Why?)

 

3. It was more expensive

 

4. The package from China got to me first! (in any situation, the distance in geographical distance is huge, either Chinese eBay sellers are stepping up their game or GSP is VERY slow)


I'm not sure you understand that the GSP is just a very fancily-marketed forwarding service.  As such, it's not necessarily going to be as economical as a direct shipment.  What you're paying for is the seller's charge for shipping the item to Kentucky plus a freight charge for shipping the item from Kentucky to a Canadian receiving hub, plus a charge for shipping the item from the Canadian receiving hub to you.  I suspect that it's that last leg where most of the cost is incurred.

Since the GSP is a forwarding service, the items have to go to some hub to be shipped out from there.  For whatever reason, it's located in Erlanger, Kentucky.   If the seller ships by a slow shipping method to Kentucky, that has an effect on the item's transit time as much as anything else.

Incidentally, I live on Vancouver Island and any letters I send to anyone on the island, even within my town, go off the island to be processed before coming back to be delivered.  Same sort of idea.


@jdnaw-whim wrote:

I do stand by the idea of an option to opt out of GSP service on checkout or to filter it out of the searches.

The only downside that buying from China had was that the shipping was slow, but now that seems not to be the case anymore! And that's an alternative to GSP.

 


The way the GSP is structured right now, it's the only international "shipping" method that sellers can offer on a listing to countries where the service is available, so opting out of the GSP at checkout effectively nullifies the sale.

 


@jdnaw-whim wrote:
Also another online site named after a particular rain forest, is at least very transparent with what they're charging you. 

 


 

I haven't found that.  I've compared identical mobile phones on the River from the same seller on both .ca and .com   The one on .ca was considerably more expensive than the one on .com and when I went through checkout, there was no accounting for the price difference.  Taxes weren't even a line item.

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

First-time member posting here. I understand PB handles the international leg of the shipping for international-bound items from the States into Canada for instance. Is PB or Canada Post the delivery carrier past Customs?

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

ZOMBIE POST FROM 2017

The problem with zombie posts is that the information or advice may be out of date or incorrect.

 

Is PB or Canada Post the delivery carrier past Customs?

Well, the customs point is very likely in Kentucky as a sub-contract from CBSA. But if you mean delivery, it appears that PB/GSP uses various companies to bring shipments to the border "in bond" and then most are transferred to Canada Post for delivery.

However, we have seen reports (mostly complaints) that CanPar is occasionally used and more rarely FedEx.

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Whats the point of Pitney Bowes?

Hello Everyone,

 

Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies.  Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

 

Thanks for understanding!

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