Another bombshell from the US Boards - Paypal to allow 180 days for INR & INAD

[dutchman48]

This is getting ridiculous

Effective Date: November 18, 2014

Dispute Filing Window

We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days.   All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.

at the bottom of the PayPal page under "Policy Updates

[dutchman48]

Here is the link

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

[73rhc]

"This is getting ridiculous"

Ridiculous is such an understatement! Speechless! How do they...

[Anonymous]

Yikes!!  We are going to see more and more and more scammers. 

It means that we must use mail service with tracking number to prevent sellers to receive Item No Received.

 As for Item not as Described, I am sure that we will be getting more and more buyers claiming they are not as described, no matter how good our pictures show or how many good pictures shown in our gallery.

Sad day for sellers.

But I find it very conflicting and irony as eBay insists that we ship our items like next day expect during the weekends and holidays and here we have PayPal thinking that the shipping can be much longer like up to 180 days (3 months).  Which is why they need to set up this idiot new policy as of November 18, 2014.

Very confusing for sellers, like one tell us one way, the other tell us other way, etc.

It is going to become more expensive for us, meaning for us to lose the potential sales/buyers when we have to change the reasonable (actually we cannot satisfy anyone!!) to the mail service with tracking number to protect ourselves.

I have upgraded my auction nearly 90% with mail service with tracking number last month and to my surprise I am getting more sales than usual.  It seems that they prefer us to ship them with tracking number than without tracking number.  In fact I got one buyer yesterday asking if her item was shipped with tracking number which I didn't as it was only $5.00 item and I hope it will arrive to her.

I wish I can have mail service with tracking number for lettermail or small package like USPS does offer for only $1.10 postage!! I get lots of letters with tracking number  from USA even it is just a letter!!  I wish Canada Post would include tracking number on all mail service including lettermail.  It make senses because they have tracking equipment now.

[kashka]

I am not even the least bit surprised...the ebay ceo is now running PP so you knew something stupid would happen.I am glad my main venue, Aunt Betsy, accepts other forms of payment.

[pjcdn2005]

180 days really makes no sense for an INR or a SNAD. A buyer is going to know long before that whether or not an item has arrived and/or if it as described. That's a ridiculous amount of time. How are they going to determine that the item is not as described when it may have been used for 6 months?

Also in the update.......if a buyer files a snad and we refund  them, we won't get our Paypal fees back.

If a buyer files a Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) Claim for an item they purchased from you, you will generally be required to accept the item back and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs. You will not receive a refund of your PayPal fees

"Generally be required to accept the item back and refund"......That almost sounds as if a SNAD is an automatic return and refund. Can it be contested?

[zee-chan]

I'm at a loss for words. The only thing I can hope for is that all of my future buyers remain to be honest buyers. Seriously if I sell a book to somebody and they read it everyday, carry it around in their pulse / backpack etc etc, obviously the condition after 180 days is not gonna be the same as how I described it at the time of listing! This is beyond ridiculous. The idiot who came up with these changes should all be fed to the sharks. No current big retailers have such stupid rules since if they do they'd all go bankrupt. 

[cumos55]

The word on eBay.com is that this  will only occur on eBay UK and eBay US....

We should also remember that a buyer can use the charge-back process with a credit card company long after 45 days has passed.. 

and then ...How long does Canada Post hold a tracking record visible for a parcel on its website?

[cumos55]

Just checked...

on Canada Post website....  Tracking still visible for parcels mailed in February and March

Items going to the US... Tracked Packet and Expedite USA....  tracking record still visible for a February purchase...

Claiming non-delivery with tracking will not be acceptable...

but then for those items  without tracking ... Only the scammers will know how to work the system.

----------------------------------------------

Not as described..... How long does a listing remain visible on eBay?

90 days in the record under "My eBay"

How can a buyer prove... Not as Described .............if the listing no longer shows on eBay?

[cumos55]

The sellers with tracking,  quality product... and with well described items  .... should not be affected by this change.... hopefully.

However...

The scam sellers who would drag out a problem beyond 45 days....  will have trouble with this 180 day window of buyer claims 

[rockp5233]

That is the final ''kick in the '' I need to REALLY stop selling Int'l... Over and out my int'l friends from all over the world !

[ypdc_dennis]

---

@dutchman48 wrote:

This is getting ridiculous

Dispute Filing Window

We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days.   All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” 

---

45 days really was too short, but 180 days is way overboard since eBay only keeps the listing page details for 90 days.

But the new time period does mean that shipping overseas surface will once again be a viable shipping choice.

[pierrelebel]

"shipping overseas surface will once again be a viable shipping choice."

???  Maybe, maybe not.

There is nothing in the new policy preventing an overseas buyer from filing a claim for non-receipt after 45 days from date of payment. Buyers do not have to wait 180 days.

[pocomocomputing]

INR claims are being associated with the estimated delivery dates that eBay provides in a listing for certain countries. If the estimated delivery date for Small Packet surface is long enough, then it could be long enough for the item to be delivered by surface.

I have read that an INR can only be started after the latest estimated delivery date. This link say 3 days after.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/item-not-received.html

Now I have not checked into this in detail to see what the estimated delivery dates are for Small Packet Surface in the eBay system.

There seems to be some potential for using surface again without fear of INRs before the old 45 days limit ends for buyers.

[pocomocomputing]

Some quick testing of the eBay shows that Small Packet International Surface has no estimated dates, just the varies standard line.

[rose-dee]

The outrageously long time period aside, I can't see the logic or purpose in this, because I don't know how it's going to work in practise with any fairness at all to sellers.

If, after, let's say, 5 months, a buyer wanted to return an item due to INAD, they'll go to eBay to look for it in their Purchase History (they may have to look in their archived purchases), but -- unless eBay changes the way it displays transactions -- the seller won't have his/her records associated with that purchase unless they've been printed out.  Will eBay still have access to them?  What if the seller wants to dispute the INAD claim?

How the heck is that going to work?  The seller will (supposedly) have to look on Paypal, refund the money (and the initial shipping), and then what?  I think 'pj' is right, there won't be any recourse available to the seller by then and the result will be -- you guessed it -- an automatic defect. 

This is all assuming the item is even in the original condition after up to 6 months (P.S. 'honeybed' -- it's worse than you thought - 180 days is 6 months).

The only thing I can see this policy doing is increasing the number of scams -- buy an item, use it for 5-1/2 months, then claim it was damaged (or damage it during use) and file a Paypal INAD claim.  Not only will the seller get a defect, but may not even get a saleable item back. Stupid, just plain stupid. 

[pocomocomputing]

180 days (6 months) is a really long time.

It does seem that eBay/PayPal is getting making selling more challenging. It does seem the potential for a seller to be scammed with false claims has increased.

I have learned over the years to not react emotionally to eBay/PayPal/Canada Post changes but each year the challenges of selling because of changes are harder to cope with. Most changes i have been able to adapt to and accept with minimal impact. But my patience level for the challenges is being reached. Just getting tired of the roller coaster of changes.

Makes me dread what next year brings with Canada Post  in Jan 2015 and eBay 2015 Spring Seller update. How can it get potentially worse?

What is frustrating, bugs or deficiencies on the eBay.ca site that have been requested for years (like better data validation in eBay.ca shipping in Sell Your Item form) never get fixed. Give us a break and fix something that is so long outstanding.

[gifts_of_elegance]

Now everything will become affordable to the buyer.  They can buy it, use it for six months and then send it back for a full refund.

Diamond rings, designer purses, expensive china, crystal, etc.  The sky is the  limit!  

[mr.elmwood]

Hum. Interesting. This will have no affect on honest sellers. None at all. They always ship high quality merchandise in a timely manner.

This will seriously affect the dishonest sellers such as the ones from China that email "Just wait a few more days" and the next thing ya know, you are past the 45 days for INR and SNAD.

There is far too much international commerce that falls outside the 45 days.

If you figure this will hurt you, you are not an honest seller. Vast majority of buyers are perfectly honest. Assuming the are not speaks to you. eBay is not for everyone.

[realjazz-123]

Please explain how an honest seller will not be hurt by a dishonest buyer???