Any way I can discourage another seller from copying my titles and item specifics word-for-word?

[momcqueen]

I realize that 'Sell One Like This' serves a true and necessary purpose but is there anything that I can do to dissuade a specific seller from chronically copying my titles word-for-word? He/she also uses my custom-created item specifics (again word-for-word) to undercut me on identical products selling simultaneously in the same format and geographic market. I also realize that titles and item specifics are not copyright but this is happening with this seller on a regular basis. (As in it's not accidental.) Is it within the realm of good manners for me to message them to ask them not to do this anymore? Insight from sellers with more experience in this field would be greatly appreciated as I'm a little worried about doing so because I can see the seller has at least one 'sister' account and I don't want to open the doors to reactive/unwelcome buying from the person in the event they are offended that I am offended. Thank you for your advice.

Respectfully,

Maureen 

[tobyshitzu]

The point of ebay adding that feature is to save sellers time

[rose-dee]

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@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

The point of ebay adding that feature is to save sellers time

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Clearly that's true, but I think it's a problem (an enticement to blatant plagiarism).  Either eBay doesn't care about lazy sellers using the work of diligent sellers to compete, or, as in so many other areas, eBay just didn't think it through. 

I'd add that, in my own opinion, "Sell Similar" -- with all the original text and specifics attached -- should only be available to the original seller.  In other words, as a time-saving aid for a seller's own listings.  

[2014sportsterguy]

EBay does not have the time to check listings that are not braking copyright laws, people always learn or copy things that's the internet open to learning and abuse.

[rose-dee]

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@2014sportsterguy wrote:
EBay does not have the time to check listings that are not braking copyright laws, people always learn or copy things that's the internet open to learning and abuse.

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Yes, well, that's the reason universities and colleges are fighting a tsunami of plagiarism that no one who copies another person's work thinks is any problem.

Keep in mind that nobody owns the internet, but eBay does own this site and can set any rules it wishes or cares to, in order to keep the site fair and safe for all users.  

Allowing open pirating of other sellers' work is not actually in line with eBay's policies on copyright.  In fact we don't even know what eBay's policy is on direct copying of another seller's titles and item specifics -- it may be that if blatant and repeated copying is reported, steps might be taken in the background.  

[momcqueen]

Sigh. I'll call. I too am a squeaky-wheel believer. I understand the purpose of 'Sell One Like This' but it offends me that another seller -- a direct competitor who was selling the same item as me exactly at the same time we were each one of only two of this particular item IN THE WORLD -- that he/she can copy my work to undermine my sales. It seems bad form, to say the least. Aside from that, if ebay is asking sellers to do the work of populating item specifics, then maybe the seller whose item is being copied over and per again should get a cut of the sale. Since it was my work that made it happen. Hah. Right-o. 

[tobyshitzu]

There would be no point in the whole "item specifics" scheme if every seller was expected to come up with unique specifics.  Its to make finding easier.  If everyone is going to type in the same manufacturer, the same colour, the same age,  etc what would it matter if its filled in automatically, or retyped word for word?      

[rose-dee]

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@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

There would be no point in the whole "item specifics" scheme if every seller was expected to come up with unique specifics.  Its to make finding easier.  If everyone is going to type in the same manufacturer, the same colour, the same age,  etc what would it matter if its filled in automatically, or retyped word for word?      

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Still, the issue the OP has is that her item is rare and unusual, i.e. not the same as everybody else's, and that someone is using her time and effort to directly compete with her.  

You may be right where mass-produced consumer goods, electronics, etc. are concerned -- an IPod is an IPod is an IPod, and variations are already set by the manufacturers, so alternative descriptions are pointless -- but where OOAK or rare items are concerned, item specifics can be very much a unique description.  

In other categories (such as clothing), item specifics serve to differentiate various sizes, manufacturers, colours, fabric types, even vintage years, so there is far less duplication of items specifics in those categories.  

Basically, item specifics are meant to permit a buyer to "drill down" in searching to get precisely the variation she/he is looking for.  Personally I doubt they were primarily intended to make it easier for one seller to save himself time and effort by copying someone else's work wholesale.  It would be very interesting to get a "policy statement" from eBay on this subject (maybe I'll ask next Wednesday). 

[pierrelebel]

"Still, the issue the OP has is that her item is rare and unusual, i.e. not the same as everybody else's, and that someone is using her time and effort to directly compete with her.  "

That is not the way I read it.

[rose-dee · Accepted solution]

Please read the OP's post (#84) above.  My impression was that this was something quite unusual on eBay and that few others are selling it.  

It sounded, from the OP's description, that someone else with an equally rare item thought he'd save himself time and effort and at the same time get a leg up on the competition by copying her titles and item specifics verbatim.  

I'd still be interested in knowing eBay's position on this issue.  I can't recall ever seeing it as the subject of a specific policy.  Perhaps you may have come across it?

[tobyshitzu]

Op is selling Mattel toys.  Everyone with the same UPC is the same, the only specific that  would be different is condition, new or used.  For piles of retail items ebay has the catalog data and fills it in itself, identical for every seller.  Been a long time since I've seen ebay announce they have added catalog data, looks like they decided to let the sellers be the catalog.  Having it filled in with the sell similar is the same as happens when you pick an item from ebay's catalog 

[pierrelebel]

Post # 13 "A good portion of my sales for which I am grateful, yes, but I'm talking about the 1:55 scale Disney Cars. There is a very limited market within Canada"

There is nothing rare about these products on eBay.

I found over 4,800 listings on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5508.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.X1%3A55+disney+car...

[rose-dee]

That still doesn't directly address the question of whether verbatim copying of another seller's titles (not just once, but repeatedly) is against eBay policy.  As I said, it seems to me that it wouldn't be in line with their general policies on copyright, but I can't recall ever seeing anything specifically on that issue. 

As far as item specifics are concerned, I don't see how the category is a critical criterion if you have an item that only a few other sellers have.  I was thinking that (with apologies to Pierre) the situation could be analogous in the stamp world -- surely there are only so many unique item specifics for a rare and unusual stamp that would be identical for another seller with the same rare stamp, yet the manner of composing the title could be quite different and original.  Conversely, titles for some OOAK items that aren't manufactured products could be rather dull, yet the item specifics be very unique. 

I think I'll bring this up at the next Wed. meeting -- it's an interesting subject. 

[pierrelebel]

"the situation could be analogous in the stamp world"

Actually it is to a large degree.

You will find several sellers offering identical stamps or set of stamps or booklets of stamps in the same condition (new = mint).

Their description and title will be largely identical.  For example:

Canada 1996 Winnie the Pooh booklet of 16 stamps Mint # BK194

If ten sellers offer the same item, nobody expects different titles.  Potential buyers will see the same image.  Differences which will guide buyers to make their purchasing decision will be:

1) price

2) shipping charge

3) return policy

4) reputation of the seller

etc... etc...

The title does not change anything.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=canada+winnie+pooh&_from=R40|R40&_osacat=260&_from=R40&_trksid=...

I frankly see this thread as a tempest in a teapot.  There are instances where sellers copy other sellers listing information.  This is not one of those. And, let's be candid, who is to say who copies who?

[momcqueen]

Allow me to explain: I had a first-to-market new character. Yes, it is a toy. Some of you may sniff at that but these are highly collectible and to have the first or last of a particular character will make or break the sale. As will listing it well or poorly. 

No one in Disney Cars lists by UPC. It is entirely irrelevant.

Collectors shop by CHARACTER or package title. Mine was carefully listed. It was the first to market in the world.

Somehow, this other seller found product like mine and then, in 30 seconds or less, copied my title and item specifics and priced his/hers at significantly less and sold-out. 

Not for the first time.

And word for word. 

Why should I invest 60 minutes in each new listing -- when I have the first and only item of its kind on ebay -- only to line the pocket of another seller? 

Do a search on ebay for FUSEL LODGE FIRE ALARM. That is my listing. Then look who sold what and when. Copied, copied, copied. From mine. My area is one that is ripe with retail cherrypickers. My objection is that this is a part-time cherrypicker that is benefitting from my considerable professional labour, time and time again. As I mentioned, this is NOT the first time this person (and there are others) has done this. If ebay expects sellers to behave professionally, then it should invest a little more effort in protecting the efforts of its longer-term experienced professional sellers. 

[ricarmic]

Hi Mjw! 

I had a couple thoughts while reading the latest additions:

In the situation where the competitor sold out, that should boost the capability of your remaining items to sell at your price because anyone who looks at a "sold" one is usually shown the closest still active items which theoretically should be yours unless others have found the same material. This is on the assumption that the item's high price isn't time sensitive, ie the first few sell high, then the rest go cheaper? I'm not familiar with your category's selling principles.

I recently have been experiencing a limited edition type situation where my opinion of the retail (fixed) price was higher than the auctions were achieving (this is always the case anyway) and I saw others downing their fixed prices to the range of the auctions. I stuck to my guns and kept my price where I thought was appropriate. After the competitors ran out of them, mine moved at my price.

In situations where competitors have been copying parts of my process of selling (I'm kind of keeping this vague on purpose) so far I've been successful by just ignoring them, making sure I maintain good quality/sources for the material and waiting till they run out or whatever happens that causes them to stop doing it. 

I do have to say when I've discovered something "new"  I also find it frustrating to have others fairly quickly jump on the same bandwagon,  and/or borrow some of my "process", although I suppose in a way that's part of the capitalistic process that encourages improvement and innovation through competition, frustrating as that might be at times........

[momcqueen]

Thank you very much for your insight.

As you surmised, this is indeed a case where ONLY the very few first-to-market characters are extremely time-sensitive and command a much higher value than any to come afterwards when the market is flooded with that particular character. I must again stress that within this area, a seller either has to have the very first of someone or the very last of something to command a good selling price. It is very intense and very volatile. 

Once this one other seller entered the market with his/her albeit-limited supply (and copied what I'm complaining he/she had copied from my listing of the exact same item) in order to sell what he/she had on-hand, it undervalued mine. My objection is NOT that he acquired what I am selling to sell for himself, but that he/she had the all-clear from ebay to copy whatever was available of my successful work from the 'Sell One Like This' feature. To undercut me.

My item will now not ever again command that initial selling price. That is, until ten years from now when I am the LAST person with them in stock. I wish I were joking about that. There might be 60,000 Disney Cars listed on ebay right now but the cash-in-hand collectors to whom the largest portion of my sales are geared care about fewer than a half-dozen. 

I too am fully aware that what I am doing is noticed by other sellers in my market, far and wide. It sounds egotistical of me to say so but it is true. What I have done has affected the items they choose to sell, how they sell them, the manner in which they are described, everything. This word-for-word copying is my final straw. It feels like thievery of intellectual property to me. 

[rose-dee]

As I suspected, eBay does not look kindly on repeated verbatim copying of another seller's work, however it appears that this is judged on a case-by-case basis.  

For the interest of all who took part in this discussion (and/or may encounter the same problem), see my question to Raphael at message #21 in today's (November 19th) weekly board hour. 

Here, for easy reference, is his reply, where you can check the policy.  It seems that repeated, egregious verbatim copying of another seller's titles is worth trying to report: 

"eBay has an Image and Text policy, and the right way to report offending sellers is to contact CS. 

With that said, when it comes to listing title and item specifics, one would think that a seller selling the same item as yours or one really close to it might feasibly end up with the same listing title and item specifics on their own listing. Short of having a real life example, I can't really comment more on this, but I do encourage you to report the case to CS if you think you should, they will be able to tell you exactly what is what since my own information might be a bit dated, not having worked such cases for a very long time."

[pierrelebel]

"when it comes to listing title and item specifics, one would think that a seller selling the same item as yours or one really close to it might feasibly end up with the same listing title and item specifics on their own listing"

[rose-dee]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

"when it comes to listing title and item specifics, one would think that a seller selling the same item as yours or one really close to it might feasibly end up with the same listing title and item specifics on their own listing"

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Pierre, I think the operative words in Raphael's reply were "short of having a real life example".  I wouldn't take the part of the answer you quoted above to mean that in every instance where the items themselves are identical the copying is irrelevant or meaningless. 

In other words, as I said, it appears these situations will be judged on a case-by-case basis, and I would think that if the copying was repeated, verbatim, and included all the item specifics word for word, the OP has a legitimate complaint to make. 

Whether eBay CS actually does anything about it of course is another question entirely.  However, the OP has no way of knowing whether the pirating seller has had complaints against him/her in the past, so I would still suggest it does no harm to bring this to the attention of CS.  That is, of course as long as the OP has the time to spend on the phone, and perhaps go through a few people before she gets someone who grasps the issue. 

[pierrelebel]

"to mean that in every instance"....

Of course I do not mean that. 

In the context of this thread and based on the new manufactured Disney items discussed here, the comment by Raphael does apply perfectly to this situation.