Buyer Fraud.

[thecoinhunterca]

I currently have a case pending that I will shortly escalate. A buyer in Finland with 2 Feedbacks (one mine and one from another Canadian coin dealer) opened a non delivery case with both of us. Both of us shipped the items around the same time. As many Canadians, items were shipped light packet due to cost. I also specifically stated in the sales record (and also do so in my terms & conditions of every listing) that I would ship this particular item at the buyer's risk. Both items (mine and the other seller's) were in the $28.00 dollar range. After 20 days, the buyer opened a non receipt case stating he did not receive the coin (without prior contact). I responded to the buyer that the coin might be in customs so I'd like to wait 30 days and reminded him of my terms and conditions. He responded to me basically telling me good luck with that and to read EBay's terms and conditions and demanded a refund within a few days or he will escalate. At that point I decided to contact the other Canadian seller (got the name through the buyer feedback) and asked if this particular buyer also opened a case for his item. And what do you know. He did. So the buyer is obviously scamming. When I confronted him with the fact that he also did the same thing to another seller, he left me negative feedback. I called Ebay and they basically told me to take a hike and escalate the case when it's time. Are you saying Ebay should rule in the buyer's favour? I'll update this thread with the results of that exercise. I hope the Ebay staff has some common sense left.

[thecoinhunterca]

BB, No, unfortunately Ebay does not take issues such as these seriously or at least seriously enough. Ebay creates systematic algorithms to deal with problems or pushes the problem onto the parties having the dispute (as does Paypal) to alert them of wrong doing. This is done to save staffing. They will not and do not react on individual complaints (on a rare occasion if you push hard enough and find the right person, they might shed a tear for you and help you out). Here is an example of another automated failure. Example being fraudulent listing. Ebay has a strict policy on counterfeit items yet when these items are reported, they often remain for sale as do their sellers. Do you know why that is? 1. The have no expertise to decide whether the items is real or not. 2. It makes money for Ebay. 3.  Apparently a better way of dealing with it is for the buyer to buy the item, receive it, find out they've been duped and then dispute it.  

[bb_cool_stuff]

BB, No, unfortunately Ebay does not take issues such as these seriously or at least seriously enough.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I know of at least three buyers were tossed last year as they had made numerous claims of Items Not Received against myself & others.

These Sellers were NARU & eBay sent along a nice email mentioning their FB & DSRs would be eliminated from my Seller Dashboard.

Trust me, they do take it seriously.

All one has to do is hit the Report Buyer Function as you & the other seller should.

[thecoinhunterca]

Well, we shall see in this case. It certainly has not been a good experience in reporting specific items. The system certainly hasn't worked for me and a few other sellers I know in removing malicious feedback (A neutral in my case, but never the less without merit). In my case a user purchased, left neutral feedback without contact. I tried to contact to resolve the issue without success, I eventually blocked the buyer, 3 months later the user changed account name purchased again, left neutral for the second time. That's clearly malicious intent. So maybe your experience was good, it's clearly not the case for everyone and I would venture more exception than the rule.

Relating to this case, I and the other seller hope that Ebay will do the right thing. We both spent hours on the phone with both Ebay and Paypal (Actually Paypal will not do anything on Ebay cases). The other seller actually has a stronger case in that he had the same paypal account but a different Ebay user ID do it to him in the past.

I'll be fair and provide an update either way. Thus far wouldn't call the process fair and certainly not one that would be considered logical in steps taken to investigate. That includes an Ebay CSR hanging up on a support call with me. I'm guessing he got tired of me asking how Ebay will better investigate the issue and him responding by "was the item tracked".  

[thecoinhunterca · Accepted solution]

After hours of phone calls, we prevailed in this case using Paypal as the initiator of investigating the offending account. The hours of my time that I spent battling this fiasco could have been investigated and resolved  by Ebay in minutes. All records including negative feedback for this transaction have now been removed.

[cumos55]

After 11 years of selling on eBay  I have learned what NOT to do.

(1) I have learned which countries NOT to ship to

(2) I have learned not to ship without tracking.... specifically international sales, outside of North America

The countries that I do ship to are the ones that do provide a record of tracking ... and in so doing provide a record of delivery.

If an international  buyer, outside of North America,  wants what I sell they pay for tracking, as that is the only option offered for buyers outside of North America..

I do not need the hassle of Item Not Received claims....   and it is because of what I sell that those claims are very, very few if any at all...

If I ship within North America without tracking....Am I going to fight the claim?... The question is HOW?   and in turn is it worth the effort?

When....  The next two to three sales cover any loss that occurred.

Problem buyers get reported  through... Report a Buyer.....  and I move to my next sale....

Playing with buyers claims of ... Item Not Received... is a bad case of Russian Roulette.... Something I never plan to play.

Why... because of the 0.3 % level  which can kill a lucrative business very quickly....

Losses in transit and problem buyers are a reality with any business  whether internet or as a B & M local retail outlet....

Welcome to the reality of selling on the internet.

[cumos55]

After much discussion OP appears to have been successful....

So be it... and we move on to the next sale...

Every seller on eBay does what works for them.  Success is based on hard work... and lots of goodwill with all buyers... with eBay... and with Paypal...

One must understand that what OP and the other seller did  ... is not the usual approach to the problem....  

What many buyers forget that if they do this too often they get blocked by many sellers who may sell what they want  without question...

and some countries just have a highly questionable postal service....

[caconqu0]

Ebay let their seller rip me off and then called them a respected seller and sent me to go fend for myself basically. I purchased a welder for my husband for christmas. They sent me a damaged welder. They did not give me my money back after I returned the welder. They did not send me a new one. I am really upset. I want everyone to know ebay does not protect their customers from fraud. They may have well just stolen the money right from my wallet. If anyone has a suggestion, please reply to my email

[teenytrinkets]

Oh I'm totally with you on this one, OP.

It boils my friggen blood every time there is OBVIOUS buyer fraud and Ebay does NOTHING. Well, nothing but refund scammers money, if course.

I had a guy in the US buy a $30 video game from me. Obviously no tracking. Exactly 30 days goes by, he messages me for a tracking number. I respond with no tracking number. He files INR. I refund.

BUT - I didn't stop there. And this is what all the other sellers should do in these cases:

1. I recorded follow up feedback like this: "Sorry you didn't receive your item. Issued refund today - Feb 3, 2020"

2. Report the scammer. It was easy for me to see he was a repeat scammer- preying on Canadaian sellers BECAUSE of that same follow-up feedback someone else left! I contacted that other seller and he told me he also reported the buyer because he was a repeat INRer!!!!

Sure enough, when I contacted Ebay, that buyer had a list of INRs a mile long. And guess what?! He's still going strong today! Sheesh...

Sure, Ebay does NOTHING but I feel like it's our duty as sellers to at least TRY because nothing will ever happen and we cannot change this stupid policy without fighting for it!!!!

I will seriously argue a Supervisors head off to remove any neg I got from an INR - especially if the buyer gets a refund.

And I'm convinced that the OPs buyer was a scammer - and not just because there were two - but because the buyer created an INR without first contacting the seller. But that's a rookie scammer. The more experienced scammers wait 30 days and send the obligatory "where's my tracking " email. They know to do this because a: they're confirming no tracking before they waste their time with the claim. They're also timing it perfectly so they don't have to come back and wait for the refund.

I recently caught a rookie scammer in the act that INRed me without the message. I luckily had the "UR" number and caught that slimeball in the act! DELIVERED! HAHAHAHA!!!

Ebay sure makes sellers put up with a lot. No protection.... 😞

[kh-leslie]

Hello Everyone,

Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies.  Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thanks for understanding!