Canada Post Government Study

"The House of Commons’ Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates (OGGO) would like to invite you to appear before the Committee in Winnipeg on Friday, October 21 from 8:30 a.m. until 9:30 a.m. in view of its study on Canada Post."

 

I get five minutes for a presentation and then they ask me questions.

 

Input. I need input. I really do not care what it is as I want all angles.

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Canada Post Government Study

I'd also like to make a comment regarding Community Boxes (CBs).

 

As far as eBay is concerned letter mail isn't really within their realm of concerns, so comments regarding CBs might be restricted to parcel delivery.

 

I have strong reservations about having my items come to a CB as well as shipping to CBs.

 

I suppose that they would deliver items requiring signatures to the door and everything else to the CB.

 

There are things that go wrong with the current system but they're rare.   If all items come and go to CBs that increases things that can wrong exponentially.

 

At a time when the PO is searching for ways to increase their parcel business, it seems to me that CBs for packages is running counter to that goal.

 

Perhaps CBs for letter mail make sense, but I'd like to see parcels continue with door to door delivery and I think that anything else would result in Canadians being even more resistant to buying on line.

 

 

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Canada Post Government Study


@sylviebee wrote:

Sellers don't need tracking and the only purpose actual tracking would serve is that some buyers like to spend their time watching the profession, and if a parcel does go missing the PO can pinpoint where it happened.

 

rose-dee had a suggestion that hadn't occurred to me before.    Until they get their ducks in a row, do we really need a scan at each end of the journey?    One scan either upon delivery or arrival "might" be enough.

 


You mean like at the very least an entry scan even if the item never gets a look after that.  Ideally a delivery scan, but even an entry scan might be helpful if eBay would ever accept proof of shipment, that sort of thing?

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Canada Post Government Study

I have wondered if the extra cost associated with tracking is not as much related to handling as it is liability. Like, if lettermail or small packets vanish, Canada Post can afford to not care. As soon as an item is traced, it becomes part of CPC possession and they are liable for it if or when things go awry.

Machines handle all these pieces of mail so how does tracking itself cost more? I think it's an issue of responsibility that lends the extra cost.
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Canada Post Government Study


@i.am.vivian wrote:

@sylviebee wrote:

Sellers don't need tracking and the only purpose actual tracking would serve is that some buyers like to spend their time watching the profession, and if a parcel does go missing the PO can pinpoint where it happened.

 

rose-dee had a suggestion that hadn't occurred to me before.    Until they get their ducks in a row, do we really need a scan at each end of the journey?    One scan either upon delivery or arrival "might" be enough.

 


You mean like at the very least an entry scan even if the item never gets a look after that.  Ideally a delivery scan, but even an entry scan might be helpful if eBay would ever accept proof of shipment, that sort of thing?


Yes.  At the very least a registered entry scan.  I suggested that because it's so over-the-top easy to do and it often looks like they scan every parcel anyway when I drop my items but only submit the higher priced (Tracked packet etc.) scans for viewing.  

 

While the delivery scan is preferable, a registered entry scan is effortless and affords the shipper with some degree of protection.

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Canada Post Government Study

Proof of shipment (acceptance scans) would help eBay sellers meet their on-time shipment commitment to eBay but it would never (and should never) replace paypal's proof of delivery. For a buyer's protection, that is imperative. If someone has paid for something, they are absolutely entitled to receive it. It shouldn't matter to the buyer whether the seller messed up or if the postal system did, if its an Item Not Received, it's INR. And only a sender can claim that loss back from the shipper so it must remain a seller's problem if the order never reaches its destination. So. I can't see any alternative to tracking metrics on both ends.

Message 45 of 222
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Canada Post Government Study


@sylviebee wrote:

I'd also like to make a comment regarding Community Boxes (CBs).

 

As far as eBay is concerned letter mail isn't really within their realm of concerns, so comments regarding CBs might be restricted to parcel delivery.

 

I have strong reservations about having my items come to a CB as well as shipping to CBs.

 

I suppose that they would deliver items requiring signatures to the door and everything else to the CB.

 

There are things that go wrong with the current system but they're rare.   If all items come and go to CBs that increases things that can wrong exponentially.

 

At a time when the PO is searching for ways to increase their parcel business, it seems to me that CBs for packages is running counter to that goal.

 

Perhaps CBs for letter mail make sense, but I'd like to see parcels continue with door to door delivery and I think that anything else would result in Canadians being even more resistant to buying on line.

 


Community mailboxes have a couple of larger boxes in each unit specifically for smaller parcels (1 cubic foot or so 12 x 12 x12 inches or maybe a little smaller). The parcel is left in the special parcel box with a key for that box placed in the mailbox of the buyer. When the buyer checks their mail, they see the key and open the special parcel mailbox to retrieve their parcel and then deposit the key in the outgoing mail slot in their community mailbox to return it.

 

This system works fine. Much better than the parcel left on a doorstep for anyone to take and much better than going to a post office to pick it up.

 

I have never had a problem with this system over the 20 years I have lived in places where the community mailbox system is used. I also lived in places where the mail is delivered to the door. Both work fine for me. But I can understand why some do not like the idea of going to a community mailbox on the corner. Issues with weather, mobility and so on are valid reasons for some to need a home delivery service for the regular mail.

 

 

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Canada Post Government Study


@mjwl2006 wrote:
... Machines handle all these pieces of mail so how does tracking itself cost more? ....

 Infrastructure.

 

Machines would have to be upgraded to easily capture tracking data. Much of Canada Post's equipment is old tech. Plus computer systems would need to be scaled up to handle the all extra data collected.

 

All that costs money and resources.

 

-..-

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Canada Post Government Study


@mjwl2006 wrote:

Proof of shipment (acceptance scans) would help eBay sellers meet their on-time shipment commitment to eBay but it would never (and should never) replace paypal's proof of delivery. For a buyer's protection, that is imperative. If someone has paid for something, they are absolutely entitled to receive it. It shouldn't matter to the buyer whether the seller messed up or if the postal system did, if its an Item Not Received, it's INR. And only a sender can claim that loss back from the shipper so it must remain a seller's problem if the order never reaches its destination. So. I can't see any alternative to tracking metrics on both ends.


I think you misunderstand.  What 'sylviebee' was referring to above was an idea I mentioned to Raphael when the "on-time delivery metrics" were first announced.  I wasn't suggesting that it take the place of ordinary tracking or proof of delivery.  Not at all. 

 

Specifically, I brought it up in only in relation to USA and International Small and Light Packet services (and presumably also lettermail within Canada), i.e. services that do not currently have any online tracking. 

 

To reiterate what I said at that time, my suggestion to Raphael was that eBay work with Canada Post to agree on some form of acceptance scan for those services that don't have tracking, in a format that would be acceptable to eBay as proof the item had been dropped off.  As we know, presently eBay's on-time delivery policy states that as long as an item gets an acceptance scan within the seller's handling time, it will not be considered late. 

 

I'd noticed that my local P.O. was able to generate a digitized receipt (with some sort of scan on it), so it seemed to me it would be a relatively easy step to allow sellers to upload that scan somewhere on eBay (either in a note to the buyer in eBay Messages, or in a place in Selling Manager designated by eBay) to prove the item had actually been accepted at the Post Office.  

 

As I said then (and now), I'd be willing to pay CPC a reasonable fee (say $0.50?) for such a scan or receipt, to be able to escape the terrors of the on-time delivery policy, yet still be able to use Light Packet and Small Packet USA/Int'l (or lettermail within Canada), at the lower costs those services offer in comparison to fully tracked services. 

 

Of course, Raphael said he'd take note and pass the suggestion on.  That was months ago.  

 

I brought it up again here for 'Mr. Elmwood' to consider presenting because I think CPC has much more of a stake in attracting and increasing business from small online Canadian sellers than eBay has in accommodating those sellers.  I'd love to see CPC come to the point of being willing to pressure eBay on this point -- all eBay has to do is agree to accept a scan of a document/receipt that is already available in the CPC system.  It would serve both companies' purposes to have Canadians selling more to the US and overseas using the lower-priced CPC parcel services. 

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Canada Post Government Study

I agree I don't need mail delivery 5 days a week ...

What I do need is affordable tracking...

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Canada Post Government Study

I took that proof of shipment receipt to Raphael as soon as the on-time metric was announced. No go.
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Canada Post Government Study

It's available for Small Packets Airmail only. There is no bar code on Light Packets or domestic lettermail so therefore nothing to scan.
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Canada Post Government Study

"t, to be able to escape the terrors of the on-time delivery policy,"

 

Don't get why people who are trs keep saying this when they obviously have no issue with "on time".  Why on earth would I want to spend .50 an item extra ($600+ year) for no benefit at all, being Ive never had a late mark since they changed to this sytem? Worse, if CP offered that, ebay would probably change the "time" rules to be like the USA and pretty much force us to pay it

 

I don't think most commenting read the report on CP.  Fee decreases, whether direct or effectively by adding more or changing dimensions aren't in the cards.     Either CP makes drastic cost cuts, and rates rise more then inflation, or CP continues with home delivery and pacifying the union, and rates go up way way more then inflation.  Rate cuts aren't happenning

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Canada Post Government Study

I think everyone, including eBay itself, is so focused on the concept of online tracking that they forget another means of proof of acceptance exists: a receipt.  The problem would not be CPC's ability to provide a receipt, but eBay's willingness to accept it. 

 

I think eBay has ignored the idea of an alternative because they'll gain little or nothing by it, and because it involves Canadian, not U.S., sellers.  It is possible though that if CPC sees this as an opportunity for increasing its business with Canadian sellers (through the latter being able to offer lower priced shipping to their customers), it might be persuaded to approach eBay to accept the concept.  I think it's worth at least bringing it up, and Mr. Elmwood has my full encouragement to do so.  

 

My particular idea had nothing to do with a bar code per se.  It involved using the cash register receipts and stamps that CPC outlets already have available.  

 

Maybe I can make my idea clearer with an example (this is really for 'Mr. Elmwood's' benefit I suppose):  

 

I take a Light Packet item to my local P.O. (which has a prepaid Paypal label on it) along with an extra printout of my Paypal label.  I ask my P.O. lady to run off a $0.00 cash register receipt (which she does for me already) and stamp it with her official P.O. rubber stamp.  She also stamps my copy of the Paypal label.  

 

The cash receipt shows the exact time and date, the address of the P.O. and the clerk's name, as well as a couple of codes, the meaning of which I haven't asked about (yet).  The stamp shows what I assume is the P.O. or outlet code number, location and date. 

 

I take my cash receipt and my copy of the Paypal label home, scan them together, then upload the scanned image to a place eBay designates for the purpose (maybe a new button "Acceptance Documents" on the drop-down box next to a sold item).  Or perhaps eBay decides it's sufficient for me to email the image to the buyer through eBay Messages.  As we well know, eBay can now peruse those messages.

 

Admittedly this involves a bit of extra work for the seller, but it would mean being able to meet eBay's on-time delivery demands without paying for full tracking.  I already keep paper records of my shipping labels, so a 2-minute scan and upload to eBay isn't much more work. 

 

The sticking point is not CPC, it's eBay.  All they have to do is green-light this as a permissible acceptance "scan" for purposes of their on-time delivery metrics, provided the document is uploaded within the seller's handling time.  

 

There is probably a small chance a seller could go to all the trouble of creating fraudulent cash receipts and P.O. stamps, but why bother for the sake of a $5.00 to $10.00 shipping service?  I think most would rather pay an extra few dollars for tracking than spend hours or days forging a receipt.  Also, the double stamp, much harder to duplicate when it's stamped over text on a document, ensures the cash receipt matches up with the Paypal label. 

 

EBay has made selling a lot harder for us Canadians since the on-time policy was introduced, especially for those of us who used to rely heavily on Light/Small Packet to the U.S.  Canada Post could make our selling jobs far easier, but they'd also have to be willing to press for cooperation from eBay.  

 

 

 

 

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Canada Post Government Study

"EBay has made selling a lot harder for us Canadians since the on-time policy was introduced, especially for those of us who used to rely heavily on Light/Small Packet to the U.S.  "

 

How many defects do you have because of that?  Not enough for it to matter

 

I sent 99+% like that and have zero the entire time, on all ids, to anywhere.  DIdn't change a thing for me, and looking at the rate of TRS listings in Canada it didn't for anyone else

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Canada Post Government Study


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

"t, to be able to escape the terrors of the on-time delivery policy,"

 

Don't get why people who are trs keep saying this when they obviously have no issue with "on time".  


Um, because I've been paying for tracked services for more than 60% of my parcels ever since eBay introduced the on-time metric.  

 

For almost all of those tracked parcels I've also been paying the extra cost myself, above what I actually charge my buyers for Light/Small Packet service.  With my volume of sales, a couple of winter snowstorms with late arrivals of non-tracked parcels to the U.S. or internationally could be enough to do major damage to my seller status, and probably reduce my ability to sell. 

 

If I hadn't switched my procedures, I'm sure I would have been punished by eBay's on-time policies by now.  I do not live in a central, well-serviced urban centre, which means I have to allow for a couple of extra days of delivery time right out of the gate.  I can't afford to take too many chances in a year. 

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Canada Post Government Study


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

 

 

I sent 99+% like that and have zero the entire time, on all ids, to anywhere.  DIdn't change a thing for me, and looking at the rate of TRS listings in Canada it didn't for anyone else


And where are you located? 

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Canada Post Government Study

 


rose-dee wrote:


 

 

 

 

I'd noticed that my local P.O. was able to generate a digitized receipt (with some sort of scan on it), so it seemed to me it would be a relatively easy step to allow sellers to upload that scan somewhere on eBay (either in a note to the buyer in eBay Messages, or in a place in Selling Manager designated by eBay) to prove the item had actually been accepted at the Post Office.  

 

 

_____________________________________________________

 

I'm not the person who stands around the PO to make sure they've scanned my packages, but I'm pretty sure I've seen them scan light and small packet labels.

 

There is no good reason that these scans can't be made available to us.  That would also have the added benefit that buyers could see that their parcels were actually sent and take the edge off for nervous buyers.

 

mj has a good point that the PO doesn't really want acceptance scans to be available unless we pay extra because that way they can't be held accountable when items go missing.

 

While I understand that it might be different for very expensive items, to me it's always felt at least a little "off" that we pay the PO to deliver our packages undamaged, but then have pay extra in case they don't do the job we've paid them to do.

Either they do the job or they don't.

 

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Canada Post Government Study

It is unrealistic to expect eBay to physically look at each acceptance scan and compare it to the handling time on each particular listing. 

 

Regarding your other comment about switching to tracked packet and paying for it yourself.....it was your choice to do that rather than wait and see if the late shipment system was going to cause you a problem.   I still see many sellers sending items without tracking here so I don't think that it was as big a problem as some have suggested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Canada Post Government Study

There is no bar code on light packet labels so they can't be scanned.  Small packet can be scanned but It seems to be for internal purposes only.

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Canada Post Government Study

We did have one seller quit because the lack of tracking effectively killed his business.

 

In turn, many sellers find ways to ship,  without tracking, and ultimately without buyer problems.

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