Canada Post Government Study

"The House of Commons’ Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates (OGGO) would like to invite you to appear before the Committee in Winnipeg on Friday, October 21 from 8:30 a.m. until 9:30 a.m. in view of its study on Canada Post."

 

I get five minutes for a presentation and then they ask me questions.

 

Input. I need input. I really do not care what it is as I want all angles.

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Canada Post Government Study

Has anyone tried downloading the pdf above? Is the link working? It is 133 pages of glorious reading.  

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Canada Post Government Study

eBay did their thing and concluded that fast shipping is important to buyers.  That is, they probably concluded that when items take too long too get to their destinations buyers stop spending their money on eBay.  In other words, eliminating those sellers from eBay benefits everyone.

 

So, they came up with a system to get rid of sellers who couldn't get their items to buyers as quickly as other sellers could.

 

Some sellers, or potential sellers, live in remote areas which just don't allow for fast shipping and/or they have long handling times.  

 

The reason doesn't matter because the bottom line is that perhaps those people would do better in a different line of work.

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Canada Post Government Study


@mjwl2006 wrote:

 

Since this seems to be 'personal' to you, allow us to help. Tell us what postal code you ship from and we'll collectively pool our postal experience to recommend the exact number of handling days you need to add to your listings to cover extra days to the nearest major shipping hub and therefore correctly pad your non-traced delivery estimates so that your buyers will see a correct, reasonable date in the On-Time Delivery Question. This may alleviate much of your likely unnecessary worry about defects on untraced items, and limit the number of times you may feel you should opt for tracked packet as opposed to small- or light-packet. That is, if your only concern is about the on-time metric. (Many other sellers choose traced for the insurance it provides against Items Not Received.) 

 


Oh dear. Please have some respect for my ability to understand and deal with the issues for my own business.  I've been selling successfully (or so eBay tells me) for nearly 10 years.  I've not been asking for advice here, especially not if delivered with unseemly condescension.  The **bleep**-for-tat is also undignified. 

 

Look, all I've been trying to point out is that those of us who live in rural areas have had our selling made more difficult and risky due to eBay's on-time policy.  This is an added layer of challenge that those of us not living in cities didn't need.  The problem is made more acute because we don't have alternative shipping services available in many major centres.  

 

So those of us in the outback especially need an answer from Canada Post that would help us comply with this US-focused delivery policy before more of us either have to give up on expensive tracking (thus increasing our risks), or ship with tracking and continue to bleed off profit.  It's a risk v. gain equation that rural sellers have to play every time we ship.  The risk is admittedly lower for sellers listing more valuable items that would justify tracking anyway, but it's certainly higher for sellers offering lower-priced goods.  

 

This problem -- created by eBay -- could be solved, as I've said, if both Canada Post and eBay could be made to see the mutual opportunities for them in making changes that would support, rather than handicap, small online sellers, and by extension, would particularly help those in rural areas to continue to thrive on eBay.  Supporting rural sellers might incidentally also help Canada Post continue to justify (and pay for) its rural services. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Canada Post Government Study

I don't know how to contact him.  

 

Your link does work for me but I'm not planning on reading all of that. Lol

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Canada Post Government Study


@sylviebee wrote:

eBay did their thing and concluded that fast shipping is important to buyers.  That is, they probably concluded that when items take too long too get to their destinations buyers stop spending their money on eBay.  In other words, eliminating those sellers from eBay benefits everyone.

 

So, they came up with a system to get rid of sellers who couldn't get their items to buyers as quickly as other sellers could.

Some sellers, or potential sellers, live in remote areas which just don't allow for fast shipping and/or they have long handling times.  The reason doesn't matter because the bottom line is that perhaps those people would do better in a different line of work.


Two things to consider in this respect:

 

1) The on-time delivery policy was purely U.S.-driven because it was easy for U.S. sellers to comply with.  EBay effectively ignored its sellers outside the U.S. and left them to deal as best they could with the metrics, with no accommodation for the actual realities of other postal systems or of international shipping.  In other words, whether it was deliberate or not, non-U.S. sellers were just collateral damage. 

 

There were many useful suggestions made to eBay by sellers on a special thread devoted to the topic at the time the policy was introduced.  EBay has ignored them all so far.  Why?  Because we're not their focus.  

 

2) Many rural sellers in Canada sell (sold) items on eBay that are unique and not easily found elsewhere.  As just one example, I recall the fellow in Nfld. who sold the hand-crafted fairy doors.   They were amazing!  Apparently eBay has no time for such sellers.  Many as a result, won't go on to other lines of work, but to competing online sites.  The fairy-door guy, along with myself and many, many of my competitors have done just that, and are doing better elsewhere.  Is that really what eBay wants?  

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Canada Post Government Study

Small Packet no longer has insurance...  but it used to be an insured option... without tracking

 

Adding tracking to Small packet  would prevent anyone from saying ...item not received.... and also ... with insurance not included....

 

One gets the impression  that without  tracking, Small Packet became costly for Canada Post because of all of the insurance claims.....

 

Tracked Packet was introduced...  and Small packet no longer had insurance. 

 

The importance of tracking should be noted .... with something such as a lettermail/letterpost option  ... and perhaps also with small packet .

 

These are about the only options where  Canada Post does not include tracking.

 

With lettermail and letterpost ... perhaps ..... a  tracking option should be ...  for Canada and US only.... Tracking would protect the sellers that use lettermail/letterpost from Item not received claims....  and tracking would also show  what happens in relation to handling time  and delivery on time, criteria as imposed by eBay,

 

or... Alternatively....  It is not possible for Canadian sellers to sell certain inventory on eBay

 

 

 

 

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"with no accommodation for the actual realities of other postal systems or of international shipping.  "

 

Well, they do have different rules for us then in the USA.  Being time was a factor with the old "Defect" way, I really don't believe there was a single seller in Canada worse off with the new rules then the old ones.  I wouldnt have predicted it would turn out this way being I was always on the edge of losing TRS because of the time dsr.   To go from always wondering if I'd wake up to see if a new dsr cost me TRS, to never having a single late mark since its clear the times they use and the way they ask the question was more then adequate to account for CP.  Still get people messaging to say item hasn't arrived, but zero "late" defects

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Canada Post Government Study

Has anyone else read this? Cumos? I think i remember you sating that you did. What does this mean:

 

Unlike transaction mail and direct marketing mail, parcel volumes have been

increasing at an average annual rate of 6.1%, rising from 143 million pieces in

2011 to 181 million pieces in 2015. In one year alone, Canada Post delivered

16 million more parcels in 2015 than in 2014, an increase it attributes almost

entirely to e-commerce orders. However, the value of this advantage may

diminish over the next few years as Canadians accept delivery to locations

other than their home addresses in return for lower delivery costs.

 


It's from Section 3.2.3. What other 'locations' and what 'lower delivery costs' are they talking about?

 

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Canada Post Government Study

Here is something else that is interesting. I've only ever heard of CUPW in the news but there are actually four unions representing people employed by Canada Post Corporation. From Section 3.6 Workforce

 

Traditionally, mail delivery has been a labour-intensive service. In 2015,

Canada Post had over 50,000 employees which are largely unionized. There

are four unions that have five collective agreements with Canada Post.

Association of Post Office Officials of Canada: Supervision of mail

processing, mail transportation, mail delivery and sales

Canadian Postmaster and Assistants Association: Postal and retail

services in rural areas

Canadian Union of Postal Workers

Rural and Suburban Mail Carriers: Transportation and delivery of

mail in rural and suburban areas

Urban: Mail processing, collection and delivery; retail, and

equipment/vehicle maintenance

Public Service Alliance of Canada / Union of Postal Communications

Employees: Administrative services, program administration, financial

administration, engineering, etc., and supervision of mail processing,

transportation, delivery and sales.

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Canada Post Government Study

And

 

The average age of Canada Post employees is 49.

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WM and others using their own delivery to thier own stores where people pick it up.  For now there isnt much difference in cost to teh consumer other then maybe no minimum for free shipping, that may not always be the case.  In other countries there are 3rd parties installing parce pickup lockers to cut out home delivery .  Or in the UK the amzn deal with argos stores

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Canada Post Government Study

Oh, I see. Like the ship-to-store option that never even involves Canada Post. Right.

 

I never use that 'delivery' option. If I have to leave my house to pick-up something I ordered online, the point of having ordered it online is lost. 

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Canada Post Government Study


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

 

Well, they do have different rules for us then in the USA.  Being time was a factor with the old "Defect" way, I really don't believe there was a single seller in Canada worse off with the new rules then the old ones.  I wouldnt have predicted it would turn out this way being I was always on the edge of losing TRS because of the time dsr.   To go from always wondering if I'd wake up to see if a new dsr cost me TRS, to never having a single late mark since its clear the times they use and the way they ask the question was more then adequate to account for CP.  Still get people messaging to say item hasn't arrived, but zero "late" defects


I agree that eBay's delivery times are different for the U.S. than for Canada, but the policy rules are the same.  One factor that has been demonstrated is that eBay's delivery windows for certain Canadian realities are unrealistic.  If you live in a city and ship to a city, you are probably mostly fine.  It's all the other situations that are riskier and less predictable.  

 

With respect to the effect of the old v. new defects for delivery, consider this: the old DSR-delivery defects ran during a time when buyers left FB much more frequently, so the likelihood of getting low DSRs for shipping was probably higher then.  

 

However, aside from never delivering a sold item at all, or allowing cases to close unresolved, shipping time is the only metric we're now being judged on, and at lower permissible percentages in terms of seller status, too.  That means, at least to me, that a mistake is potentially more serious if it does occur.  As much as I disliked the old DSR system, the risks and stakes now aren't spread around and subject to sellers' direct control, other than through paying for tracking.  They're concentrated and more significant if they do happen.  

 

Actually, as ridiculous as it sounds, I've been grateful for next to no FB since the new metrics were introduced, because if buyers don't leave FB, they can't answer the on-time question.  

 

I doubt eBay is going to change anything in the on-time policy no matter how loudly or fervently Canadian sellers protest.  I think the only (albeit faint) hope is in convincing Canada Post it might be in their fiscal interests to help Canadian online sellers with some sort of parcel acceptance procedure that they could convince eBay to adopt.  I find it hard to imagine that the alternative -- full online tracking for currently non-tracked services would be anywhere in the near future for Canada Post.  

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Canada Post Government Study


@mjwl2006 wrote:

Oh, I see. Like the ship-to-store option that never even involves Canada Post. Right.

 

I never use that 'delivery' option. If I have to leave my house to pick-up something I ordered online, the point of having ordered it online is lost. 


Yes, Wal-Mart has been installing special pick-up lockers in its stores for this purpose.  For people who regularly shop there anyway, it may be more convenient than having to go to their P.O.    

 

Wal-Mart is also using Canada Post outlets for the same purpose (in much the same way as Sears has been doing for years with pick-up depots in privately owned stores).  I ordered a small filing cart online a few months ago from them, and it showed up at my local P.O. an amazing 2 days later, a mere 2 kms away, as opposed to a 20km drive to the nearest W-M store.  I say amazing because even Xpresspost deliveries from out of province can take 4 or 5 days to get to our area. 

 

Clearly Wal-Mart knows how to hedge its bets. 

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Canada Post Government Study


@mjwl2006 wrote:

Here is something else that is interesting. I've only ever heard of CUPW in the news but there are actually four unions representing people employed by Canada Post Corporation. 

 

 


Decades ago there used to be many more unions involved.  It seemed as if we were always on the verge of strike mode back then. 

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Canada Post Government Study

Page 48 now of 133. May I just re-iterate that if I had to stand in line (to deposit my parcel) behind someone who came to the franchise postal counter with intentions to buy private insurance or do their full-service banking, I'd be forced to stab myself in the eye with my key fob?

 

Postal banking and/or becoming insurance brokers might be the worst idea ever. Some of the people who have been hired at my local franchise postal counter can hardly tell one end of a measuring tape from the other, I wouldn't hand them the key to my life savings. (I recall one in particular who didn't know what direction Edmonton was from Winnipeg.) 

 

Not to mention that if I am standing there, waiting in line for 20 minutes, at 4:48 pm on Wednesday, December 21 behind someone forwarding their mail, or sending a MoneyGram to the Prince of Nigeria, that I am losing money. Time is money. My time is money. 

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Canada Post Government Study

The key to success on eBay is knowing what NOT to do....

 

and ..... that includes not going to the post office to deliver parcels.....at the wrong time.

 

I go to the post office after 9:00 AM...  because  of the children running to the nearby elementary school... I do not need a new hood ornament ....

 

or after 1:00 PM...    Parcels leave the postal outlet at 11:00 AM  and at about 5:00 PM.... approximately!

 

 

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Canada Post Government Study

That's true. I try to get there about 9:30 am with my overnights but with same-day handling -- while I may have until 9 pm to get gain an acceptance scan on my parcel -- I always arrive about 4:15 pm so that the orders can still make it into the mailstream that day. Otherwise, Day Zero is lost and transferred to the following day which is the difference between life and death at holiday-time. 

 

There was once or twice last Christmas where I came very close to missing the 5 pm pick-up because of a long line in front of me. Filled with people doing the sort of thing that irritates me, like forwarding their mail, or sending 32 parcels to 12 different countries.  Or the dreaded MoneyGram. Shudder. 

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Canada Post Government Study

Postal Banking will be addressed... mainly because it is something put forward by the Union... CUPW.

 

Some form of banking.... most likely at an out-of-city Community Hub  may be possible  as can be money machines....  without a person working the machine

 

The reality is that banks have been cutting back on branches where actual people....work the location.

 

Also....  when one uses a bank card... such as at Walmart.... one can get money... cash...  effectively a withdrawal from a bank account... before one pays for the purchase

 

Checked with my postal outlet person..... getting cash at the postal spot  is not possible, but can be done at the cashier at the front door.

 

One can assume than  all machines  that use plastic payment  ... Interact and credit cards .....can be used to get cash.

 

All major deposits can be made directly to a bank account...  

 

When was the last time  you deposited a cheque into an account?

 

This is the modern way when using the internet.

 

Is Postal Banking really needed?

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Canada Post Government Study

However, aside from never delivering a sold item at all, or allowing cases to close unresolved, shipping time is the only metric we're now being judged on, and at lower permissible percentages in terms of seller status, too. That means, at least to me, that a mistake is potentially more serious if it does occur. As much as I disliked the old DSR system, the risks and stakes now aren't spread around and subject to sellers' direct control, other than through paying for tracking. They're concentrated and more significant if they do happen.

 

I believe that the threshold for trs on the old system was 3% for all metrics combined,  The max. late shipment rate for Canadian trs is 5%. For US trs plus the max is 3%.  I don't remember what the maximums were for a seller to go from above standard to below but many sellers did go below standard.  You cannot go below standard simply because of a high late shipment late.  

 

The problem most talked about on the boards with the old system was people getting defects when a buyer used the where is my item option to ask about a package or for a tracking number.  That was an automatic defect and was a huge problem for many sellers in all parts of Canada including one referred to earlier.

 

 

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