eBay

onlygoodthingscanada · ‎09-01-2014

Yesterday received email from another buyer from UK asking me to reimburse them an import tax that they ended up paying to receive their purchased item from Canada. They seem to believe that I should have made them aware of that tax.

Value indicated on Customs form was CAD$35 and printed shipping cost on label was CAD$18.

I have a feeling that Importation laws have changed in Europe. One buyer had to pay tax to receive 10 dollar socks, I heard just a while ago but forgot which country that was.

Dear fellow Canadians, what would be your response? Shall I revise all listings now to add a note that buyers are responsible for paying their country's import taxes? Would they read that?

mr.elmwood · ‎09-01-2014

I cannot find the exact policy, but, eBay's policy is that buyers are responsible for any local duties or taxes. Tell them that.

I do not think anything has changed. This has been a recurring theme with the UK. I do believe, for Customs purposes, they lump declared value in with postage costs and tax on the whole amount.

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tobyshitzu · ‎09-01-2014

If it was $25 (GBP 15) declared they'd have paid nothing. Its like an american declaring something at $25 to us that ended up assessed the tax and CP fee.

cumos55 · ‎09-01-2014

$35.00 Canadian equals 19.38 British pounds

The break point for customs and other charges is 18 British pounds for the UK

It used to be that sellers had to specify that the buyer is responsible for such extra charges, in each listing

eBay then placed information for possible international sales indicating that the buyer is responsible for all such charges....

eBay rules....as stated in a listing when viewed by a person from another country... with a resultant shipping outside of Canada...

Customs charges should only apply to the declared value of the item.... shipping not included.

For me this occurred with a recent shipping to the UK

The rules according to eBay

Items shipping internationally may be subject to customs processing depending on the item's declared value.

Sellers set the item's declared value and must comply with customs declaration laws.

Buyers may be subject to additional charges for customs clearance.

Visit eBay's page on international trade.

pocomocomputing · ‎09-01-2014

eBay position on a customs duty and sales tax warning has waffled a bit in the past couple of years.

The current policy on this is here:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/pay/customs.html

It is not required to add the text mentioned above, just recommended.

Because the eBay.ca Canada pages are sometimes out of date, if you check the same page on eBay.com USA site, it is similar but it does mention that negative or neutral feedback may be removed if this text is added to a listing, implying if it is not there, bad feedback about customs fees may not be removed easily.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/international-shipping-rules.html

So I would say you should add the recommended text to your description. Just to cover you in case of issues like you just had.

Now I said eBay has waffled on this because they mentioned that the above text was no longer necessary in a Seller Update a couple of years ago. eBay said they would take care of the warning in their listing form. As I recall, the form did say some warning about sellers not being responsible at the top in the pricing section and it was prominent. There is still something there but it is small fine print and you have to click on a ? beside it to get a popup.

To see this look at your listing 221342714938 and change the country to the UK in the Shipping and Payments tab. You will then see in the Shipping section at the top of the listing under the cost, the following

See details about international shipping here ?

Clicking on the ? gives this popup:

Items shipping internationally may be subject to customs processing depending on the item's declared value.
Sellers set the item's declared value and must comply with customs declaration laws.
Buyers may be subject to additional charges for customs clearance.
Visit eBay's page on international trade.

The original policy introduced 5 years ago on the above text made it mandatory to have in a listing and it had to be in the top 1/3 of the listing. If you did not have it, negatives and neutrals mentioning customs and duty would not be removed.

PS Here is a link to the 2012 Spring Seller Update where that mention that putting in the messages above are no longer needed. Obviously, this is no longer true according to current help pages.

http://pages.ebay.ca/sellerinformation/news/sellerprotections2012.html?sspagename=sellerprotections2...

Look at the Take action section

Remove customs-related messages from your listings descriptions. eBay now automatically adds a customs notification message under shipping details on the Item page for international transactions. Any Feedback from buyers that only reference these customs issues will qualify for Feedback removal.

This is another example of eBay starting one thing with a big announcement and then changing it along the way with no announcements. Until you posted and I researched this, I thought it was no longer necessary to add the customs text for seller protection.

tobyshitzu · ‎09-01-2014

it was lowered from 18 to 15 a couple years ago. That is for VAT only, duty is GBP 100 something, If its assessed, its on the total including shipping. I don't warn the buyers as they'd never be paying on a $35 item

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2014

I believe you're right about the new UK customs charges being levied on item price plus the shipping, as I had a UK customer tell me this recently. With Small Packet now showing the shipping paid, this could be a problem even with a $35 item if the shipping were rather high -- as in the OP's case.

To 'poco' -- I'm really glad you did this research! I too was under the impression that that customs disclaimer was no longer required by eBay to be shown on listings in order to have negative FB concerning customs removed. You're right that the "notice" about import charges still appears just under the item price area of a listing, but it's not as extensive (or as you say, not as visible) as before. I wish eBay would make up its mind what it wants here.

I did have a negative FB entry removed about a year ago because it was a complaint about customs charges, but that was likely under the previous policy that didn't require the disclaimer in listings. At the time, the FB had to mention customs charges only, in order to be removed.

Yikes -- I removed all those disclaimers from my listings a year ago when eBay updated its policy, now it seems I'll have to put them all back. And in the top 1/3rd of the listing as before? I really dislike the look of that. I'll have to check the links you posted.

To the OP: This customs issue seems to be an ongoing sore spot with UK buyers. Every single UK buyer I've had has either asked me to falsify the customs declaration (which I won't do), or has complained afterward.

Now I tell them (in advance) that because the new international shipping system requires HS codes to very specifically describe the contents, there is no longer any point in falsifying value, because that could lead to the parcel being opened and inspected and the contents being evaluated at whatever UK customs feels is appropriate, meaning they could actually be charged more than would otherwise be the case. (I realize this may be a bit of a stretch of reality, but it is an explanation that many will accept, and is reasonable.)

I also let them know that I give my UK buyers a reduced shipping cost to help offset some of the customs charges. And I (very politely) mention that it is eBay's policy that the buyer pay his/her own country's customs or taxes on imports.

It's probably a good idea to add the disclaimer about customs charges to all your listings - based on 'poco's' post, it doesn't seem that eBay will back up sellers anymore when customs issues occur if that disclaimer isn't in your listings.

What else can we do? Still, having a buyer demanding a refund for import charges after the fact is pretty cheesy. He probably knows he has you over the FB barrel, so you'll have to deal with it very tactfully and politely. Best of luck with this one...

mr.elmwood · ‎09-02-2014

I ignore the FB barrel and I wish everyone would. FB is pretty much yesterday's news. PS level is now 98%. I am seeing lots of sellers 98 and lower. It is not important any longer.

My rate of FB received is around 30%. eBay is aware of that. Why would they attach any importance to a metric that is only being used 30% of the time?

This is why they have moved to the defect system against total sales.

With only one defect per transaction being allowed, what difference does it make with a pos received and 1 for DSR? The end result is the same.

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pocomocomputing · ‎09-02-2014

@rose-dee wrote:
I believe you're right about the new UK customs charges being levied on item price plus the shipping, as I had a UK customer tell me this recently. With Small Packet now showing the shipping paid, this could be a problem even with a $35 item if the shipping were rather high -- as in the OP's case.

To 'poco' -- I'm really glad you did this research! I too was under the impression that that customs disclaimer was no longer required by eBay to be shown on listings in order to have negative FB concerning customs removed. You're right that the "notice" about import charges still appears just under the item price area of a listing, but it's not as extensive (or as you say, not as visible) as before. I wish eBay would make up its mind what it wants here.

I did have a negative FB entry removed about a year ago because it was a complaint about customs charges, but that was likely under the previous policy that didn't require the disclaimer in listings. At the time, the FB had to mention customs charges only, in order to be removed.

Yikes -- I removed all those disclaimers from my listings a year ago when eBay updated its policy, now it seems I'll have to put them all back. And in the top 1/3rd of the listing as before? I really dislike the look of that. I'll have to check the links you posted.

To the OP: This customs issue seems to be an ongoing sore spot with UK buyers. Every single UK buyer I've had has either asked me to falsify the customs declaration (which I won't do), or has complained afterward.

Now I tell them (in advance) that because the new international shipping system requires HS codes to very specifically describe the contents, there is no longer any point in falsifying value, because that could lead to the parcel being opened and inspected and the contents being evaluated at whatever UK customs feels is appropriate, meaning they could actually be charged more than would otherwise be the case. (I realize this may be a bit of a stretch of reality, but it is an explanation that many will accept, and is reasonable.)

I also let them know that I give my UK buyers a reduced shipping cost to help offset some of the customs charges. And I (very politely) mention that it is eBay's policy that the buyer pay his/her own country's customs or taxes on imports.

It's probably a good idea to add the disclaimer about customs charges to all your listings - based on 'poco's' post, it doesn't seem that eBay will back up sellers anymore when customs issues occur if that disclaimer isn't in your listings.

What else can we do? Still, having a buyer demanding a refund for import charges after the fact is pretty cheesy. He probably knows he has you over the FB barrel, so you'll have to deal with it very tactfully and politely. Best of luck with this one...

The top 1/3 is not required today. It is not mentioned in any current link. This was in the original policy 5 years ago that was changed to no need for the text in 2012 update and not the current policy recommending the text again.

So you do not need to put in the top 1/3 of text today. I only mentioned it as it was an absurd requirement back then. Most sellers who put in the text put it in the bottom of the listing so technically they could have lost a case because of the positioning of the customs disclaimer text.

As I mentioned, eBay waffled on this. What really bothers me is that they do not inform sellers when a significant change is made like this to a Seller Update and then go back partially to the old policy. Sellers can be burned by this kind of quiet change.

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2014

@mr.elmwood wrote:
I ignore the FB barrel and I wish everyone would. FB is pretty much yesterday's news. PS level is now 98%. I am seeing lots of sellers 98 and lower. It is not important any longer.

My rate of FB received is around 30%. eBay is aware of that. Why would they attach any importance to a metric that is only being used 30% of the time?

This is why they have moved to the defect system against total sales.

With only one defect per transaction being allowed, what difference does it make with a pos received and 1 for DSR? The end result is the same.

Well, I guess I probably should have said "defect barrel".

The point I was trying to make is that it's an unfortunate situation for the OP. He can cave in to the buyer and refund the customs charges, lose money on the transaction but make a happy buyer (who will probably try the same stunt on another seller).

If the OP politely refuses the buyer, the buyer will likely think of the FB forum as his first recourse for complaint. The "Shipping Cost" DSR no longer generates a defect, so the seller is in luck there if the buyer gives him a "1" out of spite. However, even a neutral FB comment now generates a defect. And I doubt eBay would remove a negative or neutral unless the buyer specifically rants about UK customs charges.

So -- he is over a barrel, maybe a plastic one, but still rather uncomfortable. I know what my instinct would be in this scenario (to refuse), but I'm really not sure which choice I'd make in the end, because I couldn't assume eBay would remove an associated defect. The fewer of those defects, the better, since none of us know what's around the next Seller Update corner!

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2014

@pocomocomputing wrote:
So you do not need to put in the top 1/3 of text today. I only mentioned it as it was an absurd requirement back then. Most sellers who put in the text put it in the bottom of the listing so technically they could have lost a case because of the positioning of the customs disclaimer text.

As I mentioned, eBay waffled on this. What really bothers me is that they do not inform sellers when a significant change is made like this to a Seller Update and then go back partially to the old policy. Sellers can be burned by this kind of quiet change.

Thanks 'poco' -- I think I still have a brief customs disclaimer somewhere in my Terms of Sale near the bottom of every listing. It may not be eBay's precise wording, but close enough. I'm just going to leave it.

I agree with you completely on eBay's lack of notification to sellers about essential policy changes (or flip-flops). But then I think their whole focus has shifted away from providing the best service to their individual sellers. Those guys in San Jose are probably so busy keeping the big retail sellers happy that the rest of us just slip their minds.

onlygoodthingscanada · ‎09-02-2014

I'm sure that this disclaimer will scare lots of buyers away, in Canada, or lets say in US, Australia or South Korea where import tax is applicable to shipments over $200, $500 or even $1000 of value. I have had quite a few questions from Canadian buyers whether they have to pay duties and taxes if buying an item from my store. On the other hand it's worth asking because some Canadian sellers ship items from different countries.

I wish ebay policies and rules were more clear, brief and understandable to the buyers. All my friends who have used ebay even once, have had a bad experience buying, probably just because they did not read or did not comprehend the rules and procedures, because there are so many of them.

pierrelebel · ‎09-02-2014

" I have had quite a few questions from Canadian buyers whether they have to pay ... taxes if buying an item from my store"

What is the answer to the question?

Do you charge GST/HST to your Canadian buyers?

Why not give the answer in everyone of your listings?

femmefan1946 · ‎09-02-2014

I have a standard Terms of Sale that I use on all my IDs. It includes the eBay boilerplate :

Import duties, taxes and charges are not included in the item price or shipping charges. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding

I can see no reason to remove it. Necessary or no

melissasminis · ‎09-04-2014

It's not mandatory to put this information in your listings, a lot of people who purchase things online already know they may have to pay taxes and duty on items valued over a certain amount, or made outside of the country. People who are newer to buying online, may not be as familiar with the duties and taxes, you could always add the duties and taxes information to your listings for the newer online buyers. It is always the buyers responsibility to pay any duties or taxes due, they are the ones importing the item, the taxes and duty goes to their government, not in the sellers pocket, so why would a seller have to pay. The buyer should not purchase items from outside of the country if they're not prepared to pay these fees.

Anonymous · ‎09-04-2014

To Melissa. Yes it is MANDATORY to make that information in all your listings. Read it in one of eBay's (way toooooo many!) policies. It is to protect yourself. I have one buyer in Germany got upset having to drive 20 miles to the custom and paying the fees. He insisted that I send him by email the invoice with $20.00. I told him that it is not possible because he made an offer for $50.00 for an item with asking price of $79.99 which I accepted his offer and the shipping cost is $20.50, total of $70.50 which comes up exactly as on the invoice. He kept insisted that I send him an invoice with $20.00. I even clicked "gift", it still not work for Germany Custom. In fact, he never asked me to write $20.00 but if he had, I would refused as I need to use $50.00 as value for insurance purpose in case the custom people damaged opening the package. I told him it is exactly what he paid for which is $50.00 plus $20.50 for shipping. He said that Germany adds $20.50 to $50.00, total of $70.50. Guess Germany is trying to get every penny as much as possible. I am not sure what to do and hope that he would not give me a negative feedback for that but if he does, then I have to call eBay to have them to remove it as it is not allowed to give a negative feedback due to custom issues. Again it is MANDATORY to make the mention in your listings.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-06-2014

Again it is MANDATORY to make the mention in your listings.

A couple of years ago, ebay said it was no longer required because they put in a similar statement right in the shipping area. There was a post on the board not long ago saying that the requirement was still written in the help pages but I'm still sure that is is not required.

With that being said, I still have the statement in my listings just to double the chances of a buyer seeing the information.

A suggestion...your posts would be much easier to read if you used paragraphs.

Anonymous · ‎09-06-2014

I did used paragraphs but for some reasons it didn't work and since then, I clicked 3 times to make sure each paragraphs are separated. Not sure if it is working. I noticed spellcheck is missing form the page here. I cleaned my cookies but no luck. What is up??