eBay

007steveb16 · ‎11-26-2015

I'm absolutely floored and astounded by my latest situation with negative feedback left for me. I want others to know of this blatant ability of a buyer to abuse the feedback system.

-Buyer sends message claiming item is not as described with very specific detail complaint.

-I answer the claim with a very calm and factual answer that the detail is actually listed twice in the ad. Nothing remotely personal is said.

-Buyer responds with accusation that they don't appreciate my "aggressive" response. Huh??????

-I respond that nothing was meant to be aggressive but only a factual reply to his original message that a detail was missing. Offer apology.

-Buyer then writes back stating in more or less terms, "what are you going to do for me?"

-I state for him to return the item for a full refund as well as his return shipping costs.

Today I wake up to my latest negative feedback left by this buyer. A call to eBay for a feedback appeal is made and am told there is no cause to remove the feedback because it's, "based on the buyers experience" and to not worry as this won't effect me as I'm obviously a reputable seller. I tell her the defect DOES matter in regards to my power seller status etc... To which she responds with, "right". She suggests I "communicate" with the buyer and ask for a feedback revision. Because communications have already gone so well...

This buyer has a fairly consistent history of leaving negative feedback, whether valid or not. Instead of accepting the fact they made the mistake they obviously made up their mind and decided to turn it on me and showed their true colors with the "what are you going to do for me" related statement.

I remained calm, never made things personal, I was responsive and I offered a full refund...everything eBay suggests I do.

Am feeling extremely betrayed by the system right now.

femmefan1946 · ‎11-27-2015

This buyer has a fairly consistent history of leaving negative feedback, whether valid or not.

I'd phone back when you can get the Utah office (weekdays ) and ask to be upgraded to a supervisor. Your point should be that the buyer has a habit of leaving negative fb, and refer to the eBay messages thread where you were polite and offered the standard 'return for refund' and he got aggressive.

It may work.

Especially if you offered return postage. (As if any sane seller would ! )

If it doesn't you already know how to add a calm and factual Response to your own and to his feedback. Your Response does not have to be positive and can be left indefinitely.

But wait until you have exhausted eBay.

momcqueen · ‎11-27-2015

I hear you. I had a TERRIBLE experience with the Feedback Specialists recently and it so infuriated me, I made plans to exit ebay when my annual store subscription expires next year. It was a situation exactly like yours. Try to talk to Raphael from ebay.com, the ebay Canada staff person. Perhaps he might be able to help you. If you want to hear my tale of woe, you can search for the thread with a title like 'And now for something completely different.. last night I lost it.'

avenueshopswapsell · ‎11-27-2015

I had the same experience. Buyer purchased set of cards, clearly stated in the listing that one was missing. He left feedback stating "Missing one card #92, otherwise these are in great condition", and leaves a neutral rating. I sent a request to change the feedback, but since that is in the buyer's hands, he declined. Ebay should check into this, I mean, the listing CLEARLY stated one was missing!

What if I bought a pair of jeans and then left feedback, "Not the greatest shirt"...?!?

ricarmic · ‎11-27-2015

Based on similar experiences, I have adopted the assumption:

Only expect buyers to read most of the title and check the main picture.

Generally it is clear few buyers read much if anything in the item description.

Because of this when I'm selling sets or stuff missing something I've begun including it in the title, ie I would have said missing one card in the title.

Having said that I've still had buyers complain that they didn't get what they ordered and what they ordered wasn't even something that I was selling.....I'm not sure how they bought mine instead of whatever they were trying to buy!

Every day is a new adventure it seems!

mr.elmwood · ‎11-27-2015

@ricarmic wrote:
Based on similar experiences, I have adopted the assumption:

Only expect buyers to read most of the title and check the main picture.

Generally it is clear few buyers read much if anything in the item description.

Because of this when I'm selling sets or stuff missing something I've begun including it in the title, ie I would have said missing one card in the title.

Having said that I've still had buyers complain that they didn't get what they ordered and what they ordered wasn't even something that I was selling.....I'm not sure how they bought mine instead of whatever they were trying to buy!

Every day is a new adventure it seems!

I've had that when it is parts that are associated with what I am listing. Buyers make assumptions. That has caused me to alter pictures and descriptions.

I have been harping on the fact, yes, fact, that feedback is being marginalized by eBay. FB has virtually no value anymore except to hold a nervous seller for ransom. This is why, come Feb, FB is further being reduced as a factor in evaluation..

Never, ever, get into a discussion. My entire discussions, for the last several years have been "Return for refund" and nothing else. Anything said beyond that, and you take the risk of things going sour.

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ricarmic · ‎11-27-2015

mr.elmwood wrote:

I've had that when it is parts that are associated with what I am listing. Buyers make assumptions. That has caused me to alter pictures and descriptions.

I have been harping on the fact, yes, fact, that feedback is being marginalized by eBay. FB has virtually no value anymore except to hold a nervous seller for ransom. This is why, come Feb, FB is further being reduced as a factor in evaluation..

Never, ever, get into a discussion. My entire discussions, for the last several years have been "Return for refund" and nothing else. Anything said beyond that, and you take the risk of things going sour.

=====================

My approach is different, almost 100% of the time I have been able to resolve via a partial refund instead of simply returning. (I also put the power of the amount of the refund in the buyers hands. This helps ensure they feel they have "power/control" in the resolution process. If their refund % is fair, all is well, if it is unfair = blocked - I do not remember when I had to last block a buyer for this reason)

My material is generally more open to assumptions and it is also more open to being only "partially" returned.

Usually the problem has been because the buyer did not read the stuff in the details, which I subsequently try to move more into the title to avoid the same problem next time around.

Our customer base is different so that might also explain why the different approach works better for me.

pierrelebel · ‎11-27-2015

"Buyer sends message claiming item is not as described"

It is interesting to see how different sellers react differently to such question.

My "template" answer is always the same, regardless of value.

"Thank you for you message. I am pleased to see your purchase arrived quickly and safely. I am sorry it did not meet with your most complete satisfaction. Everything I sell is always fully guaranteed. Please return (item) and a full refund will be provided through PayPal immediately upon receipt. Sorry once again for the inconvenience."

The vast majority of buyers keep the item and drop the subject.

Nearly thirty years in the mail order business and I have never ever questioned a buyer's opinion, even if totally unreasonable. Nor have I ever given a discount for "damage" or whatever. I take the item back and resell it - adjusting the price if necessary.

rose-dee · ‎11-27-2015

@ricarmic wrote:

Our customer base is different so that might also explain why the different approach works better for me.

I agree with you that a particular customer base can make all the difference.

I think there are probably also levels of attentiveness. There seem to be some buyer demographics (usually the 50+ generation) who actually read through a listing and ask questions, buyers who are somewhat younger and more rushed, but still manage to glance through the listing and get the gist, and then I imagine there are mobile-impulse buyers who, as you say, simply look at the pictures and perhaps the title and bam! -- want it.

Adjusting titles, including really good, detailed pictures from all angles, and making sure the pictures reflect any possible differences between one item and another is a help. However, FB is still primarily an eBay tool for deterrence and punishment. Come February 20th, that will all change.

If it's any comfort to the OP, I recall Raphael clarified recently that, once February 20th clicks over, any defects which would have applied under the "old" rules, but not the "new" rules will drop away. A defect such as the one the OP got (for negative FB) should automatically be removed at that date, since negative/neutral FB will no longer generate a defect. So the OP may only need to hang on until then.

mr.elmwood · ‎11-27-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
"Buyer sends message claiming item is not as described"

It is interesting to see how different sellers react differently to such question.

My "template" answer is always the same, regardless of value.

"Thank you for you message. I am pleased to see your purchase arrived quickly and safely. I am sorry it did not meet with your most complete satisfaction. Everything I sell is always fully guaranteed. Please return (item) and a full refund will be provided through PayPal immediately upon receipt. Sorry once again for the inconvenience."

The vast majority of buyers keep the item and drop the subject.

Nearly thirty years in the mail order business and I have never ever questioned a buyer's opinion, even if totally unreasonable. Nor have I ever given a discount for "damage" or whatever. I take the item back and resell it - adjusting the price if necessary.

I get people buying parts that will never fit their car "I will make it fit", well, it won't. I have not mentioned, nor intimated, that this part has anything to do with their car: "Well! Don't all Toyota parts from all years fit all models all the time? Well!". Return for refund.

Often, their opening salvo is anger because they have bought the wrong thing and they are going to make it my fault: "Return for refund".

"You obviously don't know what you are selling!". Well, lady, that rear seat arm rest cup holder is not going to fit in the center console in the front of the car. "Return for refund"

Then there was the guy in Australia who bought a Saturn L100 cup holder for his Toyota T100 truck. All "100" cup holders fit everything, right? That is what he thought. Apparently, that was my fault.

Then there was the screamer because the Gran Am dome light I sent was faulty as it would not turn off when the doors close. Um? There are on-off switches on it. Apparently it is my fault he can't work the switches and he doesn't care what I have to say as telling him to turn the switch to "off" means he is dumb. Return for refund.

These are just the ones I know about.

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rose-dee · ‎11-27-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:

Nearly thirty years in the mail order business and I have never ever questioned a buyer's opinion, even if totally unreasonable. Nor have I ever given a discount for "damage" or whatever. I take the item back and resell it - adjusting the price if necessary.

I agree with you 100%, although I know there are many sellers who take a different view.

The rules that take effect after February 20th will change the dynamic for sellers who might be inclined to "argue" with a customer over a complaint, whether justified or not.

What will happen after February 20th is that sellers will have two choices: refund in full, with no consequences whatsoever, or delay/refuse full refund and take the chance the buyer will open a case (which, if not resolved, will result in a defect).

I think this part of the new policy will be a good thing -- encouraging sellers to simply refund without being punished for it. Buyers make mistakes, sellers make mistakes. A refund upon return of the item puts things right and also makes the seller and eBay look good. The actual return process will also be much clearer to both buyer and seller.

By the way, I'm not being unsympathetic to the OP's issue, but offering an immediate refund, without explanations, would probably have meant the buyer would just go away without leaving FB once he got his money back. In any case, that defect will be gone come Feb. 20th. I wouldn't worry about wasting time with CS trying to get it removed now.

momcqueen · ‎11-27-2015

My 'feedback problem' buyer was angry that they received what they bought and expected it to be something else entirely which they subsequently admit. Furthermore, exactly half of their meagre (less than 40) Feedback Left For Others was either negative, neutral or utter nonsense of random mashing letters on the keyboard. (Literally.)

They were very new to ebay and (to me) it was obvious that they were paying no attention whatsoever to what they were doing and cared little to nothing about being here. Trying to get the Feedback Specialists to actually look at my listing, and then look at the buyer profile was utterly pointless. After hours of being on the phone with them, I felt like I'd been victimized twice.

In the end, I went back to the buyer and kissed their feet. They agreed to revise feedback and, in fact, suggested it themselves.

I will NEVER trust ebay Customer Service to do what is right or obvious ever again. They even lied to me about having a supervisor call me back. It was disgusting.

pjcdn2005 · ‎11-28-2015

I think this part of the new policy will be a good thing -- encouraging sellers to simply refund without being punished for it. Buyers make mistakes, sellers make mistakes. A refund upon return of the item puts things right and also makes the seller and eBay look good. The actual return process will also be much clearer to both buyer and seller.

Unfortunately, the seller is still being punished if they have to pay for return shipping even though the item was exactly as described.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎11-29-2015

On September 30th, just before midnight, my husband asked to see if I can find an Adidas Vancouver Whitecaps Soccer Ball for a gift. I signed in to eBay and was delighted to find under Best Match one for $39.99 plus $9.95 for shipping. In my excitement, i bought it immediately and paid for it. (23:43 PM) Big mistake, because the next listing for the same item was $19.95 with $4.99 for shipping. (Exactly half, but still in second place) I immediately requested a cancellation (about 3 minutes after purchase.) 5 minutes later I received an email from eBay that item has already been shipped and could not be cancelled. This is at midnight.

I contacted the seller the next morning and was told to send it back when it arrived and mark it "received too late" and they would issue a refund.

It arrived October 10th. It wasn't even mailed until October 6th. (6 days after purchase) I sent it back. They refunded the price of the ball but NOT the shipping cost of $9.95 because that was NOT reclaimable by them. I tried to reason with them but they were very rude.

I usually never give negative feedback to sellers even when its really deserved, but this one really bugged me.

First of all, their sale price was double of their competitor and so was the shipping. They lied to get out of the cancellation. They did not ship for 6 days. They over-charged on shipping. It was not shipped with Priority as per listing. It arrived late. (Kansas to Michigan.) They did not refund in full, even though I did not even get a return label from them. They were extremely rude.

I left negative feedback with no rating for "item as described" (I never opened the package), Very Unsatisfactory for Communication, Very Slowly for shipping time and Unreasonable for shipping cost (it was way above cost).

MY FEEDBACK HAS BEEN REMOVED. I was not notified, it just came to my attention. I thought I did not post it properly.

Couldn't post it again. It is shown as Feedback posted but its no where in their Feedback received.

73rhc · ‎11-29-2015

I wouldn't want a customer like you.

rose-dee · ‎11-29-2015

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
I think this part of the new policy will be a good thing -- encouraging sellers to simply refund without being punished for it. Buyers make mistakes, sellers make mistakes. A refund upon return of the item puts things right and also makes the seller and eBay look good. The actual return process will also be much clearer to both buyer and seller.

Unfortunately, the seller is still being punished if they have to pay for return shipping even though the item was exactly as described.

I still think that's better than getting an undeserved defect from eBay for trying to do right by a customer, i.e. for the mere fact of a full refund. In my view that was never fair to sellers.

gifts_of_elegance · ‎11-29-2015

@73rhc wrote:
I wouldn't want a customer like you.
Why not?

reallynicestamps · ‎11-29-2015

Perhaps the buying without reading and researching. But ...

I agree that the lie about shipping and the rudeness of the seller did deserve low DSRs. And no stars was a Free Pass in that category.

treasure.hunter.d · ‎11-29-2015

@rose-dee wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
I think this part of the new policy will be a good thing -- encouraging sellers to simply refund without being punished for it. Buyers make mistakes, sellers make mistakes. A refund upon return of the item puts things right and also makes the seller and eBay look good. The actual return process will also be much clearer to both buyer and seller.

Unfortunately, the seller is still being punished if they have to pay for return shipping even though the item was exactly as described.
I still think that's better than getting an undeserved defect from eBay for trying to do right by a customer, i.e. for the mere fact of a full refund. In my view that was never fair to sellers.

I think the point then is, isn't it a sad day when we (reputable and friendly sellers) are splitting hairs over which is worse.

Cheers,

thD

gifts_of_elegance · ‎11-29-2015

@reallynicestamps wrote:
Perhaps the buying without reading and researching. But ...

Yes, I should have researched more, but it was midnight, I already put in 16 hours in front of this computer and was very tired. No excuse. Never-the-less, I wrote the seller immediately that I wished to cancel the order to which came the reply that item has already been shipped. That was the first lie they told. They knew I did not want the item and yet 6 days later they shipped it.

But the purpose of my post was not to impress anyone with my story of woe. The reason was that the negative feedback I gave this seller was removed without my permission. How many times did we get unfair feedback only to be told by eBay that they can't remove feedback because:

a) That 's how the purchaser sees it or

b) they have no right to remove feedback because that would be censorship

c) some other excuses that comes to the agents head?

The recalling of events was to tell how I arrived at the decision to post a negative feedback.

The point is, not all sellers enjoy the same rights or benefits here and that is very unfair.