eBay

go-hifreann-leat · ‎09-18-2014

I just sold 3 - 12 volt flourescent lamps for RV, boat etc and the costs for selling on eBay are now so out of touch it's no longer worth the bother.

I managed to get $20.50 for the lamps and then $20 for shipping for a total of $40.50.

eBay then takes $3.55 for both item and shipping and then Paypal takes $1.47. Shipping actually cost me $23.98 when posted not $20.

So in the end I get $11.50. Woopy ding...

I might as well have thrown them in the recycle bin.

I know this will seem like small potatoes to you big sellers but for me it's not worth my time any more. Couple this with some things I do buy here that turn out to be complete junk and I wonder why bother with eBay at all??

Yes I know: so go away and quit using it we don't care.... thanks in advance for sharing. This appear to be the attitude everywhere.

73rhc · ‎09-18-2014

Yep, I totally agree. With everything. You won't get any sympathy from most here. And ebay is the one making out big time. I've found that I've had to balance my efforts between ebay and local classifieds. Good luck.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-19-2014

Ebay is positioning itself to compete more directly with Alibaba, Aliexpress, Amazon and more.

Walmart.ca now has free shipping on items as little as $0.25

Amazon is shipping food now.

Bestbuy sells baby items, mattresses and musical instruments.

It's a rush to be THE seller.

Unfortunately, there is less and less room for the little guy as their policies are geared towards big corporate sellers of new items.

Yes there are too many apologists on this forum.

Do you think the big corporations pay the same fees?

Do you think they have the same exposure?

Do they pay the same shipping?

If you think they do, I have bridge to sell you.

I think the biggest problem people have, or at least I do, is that ebay continues this charade that 'anyone can sell' and that it's a 'venue' (once an apologists favourite word) when in reality, it is nowhere near easy, fun or profitable to sell for most small sellers and Ebay is no where near a venue as once claimed. Between paypal and ebay, they are constantly interfering and changing the process to suit their own goals. Those goals do not match up with small sellers.

pierrelebel · ‎09-19-2014

"Between paypal and ebay, they are constantly interfering and changing the process to suit their own goals. Those goals do not match up with small sellers. "

That is a fair assessment.

Individuals considering themselves "small sellers" should not look at eBay as a venue made for them. eBay in 2014 is not what eBay was in 1998 when I joined. That is a reality we may not like; however we have no choice but to accept.

"Small sellers" wishing to sell their products online through a venue offering what eBay offered ten or fifteen years ago need to look elsewhere. They also need to keep in mind that buyers have changed. They demand more protection today then they did ten or fifteen years ago. The online shopping industry has grown tremendously and competition is much more aggressive today than it was a decade ago.

Many "small sellers" have decided to work within the new eBay - with all the policy changes favouring larger sellers. Others will look elsewhere.

Good Luck.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-19-2014

Pierre once again not addressing the point.

The point is the CHARADE that ebay continues where they use Orwellian double speak. Where providing better service to customers really means shifting costs to sellers. I could bring up dozens of examples.

You were the one spouting only 2 years ago that ebay was only a venue.

You were dead wrong. Ebay is nowhere near a venue but has both hands in the pot and are manipulating sellers to their own benefit.....all the while trying to say they are in the middle.

This is the difference, and this is why people are upset

Ebay is not a venue, and it's not a place for small sellers.

Some sellers who sell items like stamps are not in ebay's sights.......yet. And they really don't understand how ebay's policies affect other sellers but once ebay is done manipulating the big stuff, then stamps, coins, and everything else will be next.

While it's easy to say go someplace else, that again misses the point. The point is Ebay actively spouts off and tells people that anyone can sell. Anyone can sell their old stuff out of their closet. It's easy!

That is not true.

pierrelebel · ‎09-19-2014

You can "bash" eBay as much as you want and be 100% correct. The conclusion remains the same:

Many "small sellers" have decided to work within the new eBay - with all the policy changes favouring larger sellers. Others will look elsewhere.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-19-2014

It's not bashing.

Do you think that big corporations who are getting these changes done just sit back?

Do you think that they don't have lobbyists constantly pushing ebay to change the playing field in their favour.

People like you who spout off 'like it or leave it' are doing a disservice.

If ebay portrays themselves a certain way, they should act that way as well in good faith.

If they don't, which they aren't, then they need to be called on it.

People who apologize for Ebay's actions only embolden them to continue.

Are you on the Buyers forum saying ' some people just shouldn't buy" or " there are other places to buy"' when something goes wrong? I don't think so.

Is ebay turning away from these buyers or are they listening? An extension to 180 days on returns says they are listening.

Why don't you try and put in some constructive input?

Ebay is not a venue. You were wrong. Ebay does portray itself that 'anyone can sell'. Instead of telling people to go away, why not try and get ebay to live up to what it promises.

pierrelebel · ‎09-19-2014

"People who apologize for Ebay's actions only embolden them to continue. "

I do not see anyone here who apologizes for eBay.

The point remains the same. Even if 100% of all your comments are correct, even if eBay lies to "small sellers", even if eBay has changed its policies to favour large sellers, even if eBay is no longer a venue, even if ... etc... it does not change one thing:

"small sellers" either adapt to the new eBay or go elsewhere.

"Why don't you try and put in some constructive input? "

I served for three years on the eBay.com "Voices of the Community", I was a charter member of the eBay.com Stamp Advisory Committee, I participated in the eBay.ca "Profitability Forum", etc... I am a regular participant on Wednesday "Weekly Board Hour" constantly asking eBay.ca staffers and managers questions about their new policies. Calling them names will not make them change their mind. I do know what eBay can do and have decided the choice for sellers is very clear:

"small sellers" either adapt to the new eBay or go elsewhere.

art-in-the-making · ‎09-19-2014

I just sold 3 - 12 volt flourescent lamps for RV

Make no mistake!

That $11.50 that you got for those lamps is still enviously and greedily coveted by powerful multinational corporations and poverty-ridden 3rd world dwellers alike.

The fight that's going on right now over that $11.50 is of epic proportions. It's like Sauron vs Armageddon.

Google vs Facebook vs Amazon vs Ali Baba vs Nestle vs GE vs Apple vs Russia vs China... amazing in a way that you did get that $11.50 to put in your jeans!

If North America's middle class were smart enough and more organized, we could be players in the game. It would take organization and commitment.

Unfortunately, as they say, everyone has a price - and ours has been pitifully low.

--

Ironically, eBay founder Pierre Omidyar and original president Jeff Skoll gave up control of eBay and now both focus on their respective (impressive) charitable enterprises mostly of a social engineering/entrepreneurship nature.

However, who knows, they might have done more good in the world overall by simply keeping eBay as it originally was - a level playing field where an average person could sell to the world - and improving it!

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-19-2014

if you have nothing constructive to say, then why say anything.

saying like it or leave it is not an answer. That statement has zero validity on the OP. If someone is happy with ebay you can say like it or leave it. If you say ebay charges fees, you can say 'like it or leave it'. In the truest sense that is all you can do with anything. You either stay with it or you don't. So really, it's not any advice or anything really.

You might as well say the sun will rise tomorrow.

Telling people to go elsewhere when they question ebay's policies and actions is not helpful.

Telling people that ebay is what it is is apologizing for ebay's actions.

Definition:

Apologist: a person who defends and idea, faith, or institution.

one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something.

either adapt to the new eBay or go elsewhere.

is that what buyers do? Or does ebay CHANGE to create a better environment for buyers.

Is that what big corporations do? Or do they get ebay to CHANGE to make it better.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎09-19-2014

Is that what big corporations do ?

Unfortunately yes, Froogal, nothing personal, we are just a number in the eBay universe.

Would we like to see a level playing field, yes, but don't hold your breath as eBay's Business Model is still making money, lots of it.

Personally this has been the slowest eleven weeks I have ever experienced in nine plus years on eBay.

I just hit a wall in July, no idea why as I am readjusting weekly.

Bottom line, potential buyers are not interested in my items at this time as there are myriads of choices.

I could see the tide shifting in my category last year. Pre-Loved shirts were 42% of my sales in 2012, in 2013 3%.

Luckily I started dumping pre-loved shirts last year & luckily, only have a handful left.

Just the Wheel of the Universe, small sellers must adapt, scale back, locate other venues to sell or unfortunately leave.

Nothing personal, just reality, especially since the New Year.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-19-2014

@bb_cool_stuff wrote:
Is that what big corporations do ?

Unfortunately yes, Froogal, nothing personal, we are just a number in the eBay universe.

maybe I misunderstand what you are saying, but big corporation do not just sit back and take what ebay is dishing out.

Big corporations don't say 'well we'll just have to adjust to what ebay is doing, or go elsewhere'

In fact, the bigger the corporation and the more important they are the more they say 'ebay you had better CHANGE, or we will go elsewhere'

Anybody in business know this is what happens.

Anybody who says if you don't like it, leave, is NOT being helpful.

The answer is for more complaining, more action, more pushing. The absence of it only makes ebay's decisions that much easier.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎09-19-2014

I agree with everything you say Froogal.

Is eBay just a venue to sell our items, yes, after that the onus is on us to remain competitive.

Difficult today with 250,000,000 listings worldwide.

I can recall when there were 9,000,000 listings & we thought that was too many.

Reality, much like business is today.

I think we all can relate to your frustrations, but I don't see any change in regards to eBay's business model as long as the Bean Counters are smiling.

I have done really well on eBay over the years & have always been & will remain optimistic, but now it is time to realistic.

I am regularly in touch with my Friendly Competitors & have found 20% are doing well, while 80% are having a tough go of it.

The River, Ranch & Betsy have been attempted by the same competitors, just not with shirts & jerseys & have failed miserably.

One mentioned last week that they had one sale in six months on The Ranch.

Again, unfortunately reality.

One can equate eBay as being the Yankees Dynasty in the 70s with little or no competition.

ricarmic · ‎09-19-2014

This has been an interesting thread to follow.

Certainly really big companies can have a lot of impact and can influence things.

Probably most of us here are "small companies", and unfortunately our needs are very wide and varied. Stamp sellers have different needs from sporstcard sellers who have different needs from pattern sellers, who have different needs from clothing sellers etc.

I do think eBay is watching the general opinion and concerns being expressed on the boards. I think we have seen some changes as a result of it around how defects are being handled and subsequent adjustments.

Certainly speaking for my myself, I'm a small seller.

I don't like the rash of eBay changes this year any more than anyone else. I haven't liked the changes that have happened at the other non-eBay online sites I use either, or even the changes with the non-online venues I use.

Whenever changes come along for eBay, or the other online sites, or the non-online venue I look at:

-will this change immediately cause me selling grief/costs

-will this change cause me long term selling grief/costs

Depending on the answers to those questions it causes me to adjust how much time and effort I invest in a given venue.

So far I continue to choose to sell on eBay and so far eBay is still providing the best return and value for the selling costs despite the amount of frustrations it presents, so I devote the most time there. As a contingency, I also force myself to maintain my presences on the other online sites because one never knows when the change may come that makes eBay untenable for me or me untenable for them.

In my opinion this is the same principle that the big companies use, except they have a department doing what each of us is doing on our own and of course they're big enough to potentially have enough impact to be heard individually. It is still very good that we are voicing our concerns regarding the changes, I do think that eBay must have a process to try to glean a general idea of what changes may need to be made from what is gathered from the boards, however as with any big company, their reaction time is slow. That's the downside to a big company. Something you or I could decide and implement in a day or a week would likely be a month to years for them..... so patience is required as well as surviving in the meantime....

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-19-2014

@bb_cool_stuff wrote:
I agree with everything you say Froogal.

Is eBay just a venue to sell our items, yes, after that the onus is on us to remain competitive.

Difficult today with 250,000,000 listings worldwide.

I can recall when there were 9,000,000 listings & we thought that was too many.

Reality, much like business is today.

I think we all can relate to your frustrations, but I don't see any change in regards to eBay's business model as long as the Bean Counters are smiling.

I have done really well on eBay over the years & have always been & will remain optimistic, but now it is time to realistic.

I am regularly in touch with my Friendly Competitors & have found 20% are doing well, while 80% are having a tough go of it.

The River, Ranch & Betsy have been attempted by the same competitors, just not with shirts & jerseys & have failed miserably.

One mentioned last week that they had one sale in six months on The Ranch.

Again, unfortunately reality.

One can equate eBay as being the Yankees Dynasty in the 70s with little or no competition.

I think people keep missing my point. My point is the charade that ebay keeps up and lures in small sellers only to find out that what ebay says and what they do are 2 separate things.

While this may not be criminal, it's pretty unethical.

I totally disagree with you about ebay being just a venue. I have seen various people here describe ebay as a venue, or a street, or a location where you get to sell. This is not the case. Over the past few years ebay has taken a huge hands on approach to manipulate sellers and buyers alike. If ebay was just a venue, I would be tickled pink. Let me sell and stand on my own merits, but right now my account is limited because people think that charging $2 less than it actually costs me to ship is too high. Ebay doesn't just let people sell.

And it has nothing to do with working hard or competition. More and more people both buy and sell online.The more competition the better, but what ebay is doing is not competition. what they are doing is manipulating their services to provide an edge to larger companies and penalizing smaller ones.

As for changes, they are happening, constantly. Big companies, maybe even the US government itself is pushing ebay to tilt the tables (or have you not noticed the searches with supposed price + shipping lowest not showing US shipping from US sellers)

In the end, change is possible, but not without a voice. People, who come here and say take it or leave it, are not being helpful.

Will complaining help? Ask the buyers with 180 days SNAD with paypal.

rose-dee · ‎09-19-2014

@froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock wrote:
The more competition the better, but what ebay is doing is not competition. what they are doing is manipulating their services to provide an edge to larger companies and penalizing smaller ones.

I think those of us who have had our eyes open and applied any sort of analysis at all over the past 2 or 3 years can see that this is a fact. Sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. I call it the "bum's rush" feeling, that many of eBay's traditional enterprising individual sellers are being shoved toward the door.

The question is, what to do? Well, we can try to adapt, remain obstinate, keep our heels dug in even as we're being pushed away, until it's obvious that strategy can't continue and we have to either go elsewhere or give up. What's the point of selling and losing money?

What's the alternative? Are you suggesting fomenting some sort of rebellion? A seller's trade union? We can't even get 10 people to agree on one idea on these boards, let alone get millions to agree -- for example -- to refuse to pay seller fees until eBay makes changes to benefit the smaller seller. It wouldn't work anyway. EBay would simply kick the offenders off the site, and turn back to their big sellers, providing them with even more incentive to sell.

No, eBay is pandering to its big commercial sellers because eBay is chasing the buck, pure and simple, and those big sellers can provide it. Not only that, but it reduces dramatically the number of sellers eBay has to deal with directly -- instead of millions of individual troublemakers, most of whom aren't professional retailers, it has a few hundred commercial retailers to keep happy. Which is easier? Which costs less for eBay in the long run? It's no wonder they're abandoning their original seller base.

Yes, I absolutely agree that eBay has become disingenuous about encouraging new, small sellers. It is offensive because it's so ludicrous. When I see eBay telling people they can sell from their Iphone, just a few easy steps, 1, 2, 3, and presto! -- make money from "stuff" in their closets, I see the defects adding up. What happens to those people? EBay makes a few dollars off them in FVFs, a few manage to hang on for a while, then get limited, restricted, downgraded or kicked off the site due to the new rules and policies (which beginners are often unaware of), and eBay attracts a few million more. It's probably very easy money.

I think more and more of us small sellers will find it harder and harder to make money here over the next year or two, despite all our efforts to keep our noses clean and do as we're told by eBay. The best small sellers probably aren't making eBay as much money per transaction as the worst enormous seller, when you consider those 20% TRS discounts, the CS time spent on individual small sellers' problems, and the millions of billing records that have to be managed. Big is easier for eBay, and this site is their property, after all.

So, what else is there to do?

Accept what is, as difficult as that may be now, and make it work as long as possible for our own purposes (while perhaps also keeping a little insurance in our pockets by staying active on another site)? Probably the best answer for most -- for a while at least.

Leave? Certainly, if it makes no financial sense to stay. Why throw good money after bad by paying eBay to help you lose money?

Complain? Yes, that might help us feel better, and if enough sellers complain about the same things, it's possible eBay might make some concessions (as, in fairness, I have to say they've done in a few instances).

Start another site, geared toward small sellers, similar to what eBay once was? Good luck with that one.

Seller rebellion or "strike"? That would be the very definition of a lost cause (see above).

Yes, I would much prefer eBay to let me live or die as a seller on my own terms, dealing with my own customers exactly as I see fit, but this isn't my site, so I can't expect to make the rules. In a way, we are very much like tenant farmers of centuries past -- we get to conduct our business on the landlord's site, but on his terms, and at his price. In return, he lets us keep a little of what we produce. Those who are fortunate, or work particularly hard, get to keep a little more of what they earn. Marx would have had a field day with eBay!

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎09-19-2014

@rose-dee wrote:
In a way, we are very much like tenant farmers of centuries past -- we get to conduct our business on the landlord's site, but on his terms, and at his price. In return, he lets us keep a little of what we produce. Those who are fortunate, or work particularly hard, get to keep a little more of what they earn. Marx would have had a field day with eBay!

nailed it.

How do we 'fight this'.

Well the first thing is when someone says they don't like the way ebay is doing things and complains, don't tell them to go pound sand. Even if you say nicely 'well some people just aren't meant to sell on ebay' you are basically telling the person their comments are unjustified and to take a hike.

Secondly, I have already reacted to ebay's rules by tightening up what I do, and I will do more. This means less sales and higher prices and less purchases on ebay. While I may not be a big seller, I am by far a big buyer and used to buy in the thousands per year. Now it's in the hundreds. You can only buy so many new items before the market is saturated. What will ebay offer that Amazon isn't already?

One of the largest sellers of broken/returned electronics in the US has quit ebay and opened their own site. I buy from them. I buy less from ebay.

Let people complain. Don't have the 'apologist posse' come down on any poster here that doesn't agree with their assessment of ebay. Sometimes the complaints seem silly or that the seller should know better, but rather than trample that person, ask yourself why they are upset. Not speaking for the OP, but it seems they fully expected the apologists to chime in when they prefaced comments by saying:

Yes I know: so go away and quit using it we don't care.... thanks in advance for sharing. This appear to be the attitude

everywhere.

Instead, why not try supporting the person with constructive comments and figure out what the issue is.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎09-19-2014

I don't think anyone disagrees with you Froogal, everyone is frustrated.

180 Day return policy is a "Little Nutty " I agree, but I somehow have the feeling this is due to the "Don't Worry If You Didn't Receive Your Item, We Will Send You Another One " Scam.

Buyers are mislead until the 45 Day INR Limit has expired & then the Seller is never heard from again.

We are basing our opinions right now on " What Ifs "

You are going to drive yourselves crazy Gang, lets wait it out & monitor the situation when it presents itself.

I average a return every two years, so I cannot concern myself with "What Ifs" right now.

The concern is increasing sales, sorry, " The Good Ole Days Are Over."

The Ferrari Ride was fun, we can no longer afford that ride & many of us are now taking public transit.

Pierre has always mentioned " Know What You Sell, Sell What You Know " & it still applies, however one must now gain knowledge in additional areas to remain competitive.

We can no longer rely on the categories we sell in, we must diversify & seek out other items to sell.

Time to go back to eBay school, Gang.

Start over with different items while keeping what brought us to the dance.

Remember when we were kids " Do Over. " I think it really applies in the New eBay Universe.

cumos55 · ‎09-19-2014

Not everyone who comes to eBay should sell on eBay....

Some just cannot adjust..... Based on inventory... or how they describe items they sell ... and then how they deal with buyers.

If you cannot find the inventory... change your target... and adjust... I did... and that is how I found my major category.... Canadian history...and even within Canadian history adjustments have been made....

There was a time when the focus was everything relating to Canada,, and Canadian... art glass, pottery and more... My choices in inventory allowed me to adjust in relation to eBay., and also to Canada Post

Ten years I sold in many categories.... and no books... How did I get into books....The inventory is available... and I sell...

My major category is there but it is not enough....

That is when I found complementary categories

such as that German bible... like new condition ... and over the years many bibles in languages other than English have been sold...

Then there was Mennonite history.....books about Canadian artists and artwork... Books about Ukraine......

Science books... the unusual..

My most recent additions to inventory... Books about birds and mammals of Canada... not just pictures... but the basics of science and natural history.

There have been many times when something unusual and quite valuable has been found... listed and sold.... sometimes very quickly.

Call me a small seller with a big presence on eBay.

I do what I do to sell my inventory.... but more importantly I know what ... NOT... to do....

I work the system to my advantage...... Sometimes eBay wakes me up to a new reality... and I move on and make adjustments..

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... for some people eBay is not a place to sell.... However, I know many sellers in Winnipeg... who sell very effectively..... some sell at auction... and then some sell at Fixed price... Small sellers but very successful.

The reality is they know how to make it happen..... They each have chosen how to create their own reality on eBay... Success is based on what and how they sell.... some sell selectively while others sell en mass

I am somewhere in between....