eBay

sssupershopaholic · ‎04-05-2014

I have been with EBay and PayPal for 7 years...I believe I deserve some answers and respect...Not once but TWICE in less than 4 months PayPal/EBay gives buyers back there monies from a fairly large transaction...the FIRST being a clear case of buyers remorse! And the SECOND being for theft of the very same diamond earrings!!! My grandmothers that I was only selling to help out me and my boys! The first time at least I got my earrings back...this time this One gets my grandmothers earrings AND her money back!!!! I've been with PayPal since 2007 and her since last year with 5 feedback! PayPal says my "options" are to take it outside PayPal and sue her in small claims & press charges...how can that be my "options" when I can not do either one?! She is in the USA & I am in CANADA ...NO JURISDICTION! What's worse is she almost convicts herself in one of the emails she sends to me!!!...BUT THEY STILL CHOSE HER SIDE...I just sold my two ct diamond ring prior & my wedding set right after and no problems...All she had to do is go down and get a police report 10 DAYS AFTER opening the claim and ONLY PAYPAL had to PHONE her and TELL her to do it?????!!! BEWARE SELLERS EBAY & PAYPAL ARE NOT PROTECTING YOU AGAINST ANYTHING AS THEY CLAIM TOO! Their systems and policies are in a loop process...one will blame the other and they can not help you. Their policies do not pertain to this YOUR PARTICULAR situation EVERY TIME SOMETHING HAPPENS & very time you call in regarding a "policy" or "procedure" you get a completely different answer! Even their own "Policies" contradict themselves! I need some answers from someone! I'm out over $2000 in 4 months AND My grandmothers diamond earrings!!

sssupershopaholic · ‎04-06-2014

Yes half of the amount because the other half is of the same earrings that were sold in November but the buyer had buyers remorse and wanted to return the earrings. The only reason there was any kind of "return" policy on the November purchase is because EBay's reps suggested I have one and even told me to put fees (like restocking etc) upon return to discourage a return...But when the buyer wanted to return the "beautiful" earrings as described by her...they gave her her full monies back including shipping ...and not less any restocking fees as was on the listings! ...Sooo in total with the two sales, selling fees & PayPal fees I'm out almost $2000 and my item! I was told today by Casey maybe I should use some other Payment Provider...well maybe I'll have to do just that!

sssupershopaholic · ‎04-06-2014

As I have said I do use Canada Post (as I do NOT have the luxury of printing off my labels at home) and I do go in and even have the postal person witness me putting my items in each package...the limits for insurance in Canada for jewelry is $500 max. No matter priority or express or whatever...and just so you know...and I quote that "No matter how the case was open, they would close it and reopen it to their liking. And whether you have insurance, tracking or a signature it does not matter...she got a police report and that's all PayPal needs or cares about...the END of SELLER PROTECTION!

sssupershopaholic · ‎04-07-2014

Yes you are right canada post will only insure jewelry for up to $500. As for the possibilities i*m still there. The first is not an option, the second a very very finite possibility. The third is the only answer...if I explained...you would understand ... how the buyer stated she got the package ...to what was inside the package etc you would know she was lying...as was stated and very similar happened...larger box was shipped and declaration was very carefully worded...the ONLY person that has those earrings IS THE BUYER! Won't matter if you ship with a courier or not, insure all you want, get as much tracking as you like, ship it the most expensive way you can, and even pay to get a signature request...because all of it everything you do will mean **bleep**! Don't get me wrong this comes from PayPal directly! If the buyer gets a police report. Game over you lose...and seller protection is that unicorn running way laughing at you with your money and your earrings!

sssupershopaholic · ‎04-07-2014

Just for the record, this has been appealed 4 times & I even have a letter from Canada post saying they see me package each item I ship and we both make sure it's sealed. Every time I get a representative to listen and look at the evidence they always understand and reopen it. Then they get one of the four supervisors to look it over and it gets closed down 5 minutes later!! Obviously the case was not closed correctly or they would not reopen it that many times! It's just that now the same people are reviewing it that closed it to begin with and don't want to change what's all ready done!

melissasminis · ‎04-07-2014

I personally would of used Fedex for shipping expensive items, I've used them before for shipping a couple Rolex watches with no problems. If duties/taxes/brokerage were paid and signature at the door was given which I'm sure it would have been for this large purchase, isn't that proof enough the item arrived in safe condition? You don't sign and pay fees for an empty box, once duties are paid, it means the contents were checked for value/verified by customs, proof of the contents. I'd file a police report on her for theft, paying for an item, receiving it, then getting the money back/chargeback, it's theft! Someone is responsable here, the post office for stealing it, or the buyer, someone needs to pay!

melissasminis · ‎04-07-2014

I know earrings don't weigh much, but the police should have checked the weight details on package, and weight of package as she says she received it. You said you went to the post office and they must of weighed it obviously, so the weight would be accurate on the package. It would show that when it was shipped, there were contents, so either the post office or buyer are responsible here.

i*m-stilll-here · ‎04-07-2014

When an item is delivered to your door, you have no way of knowing what is in the box and no delivery person is going to stand there and wait for the receiver to open the box.

Removing a small piece of cardboard would take care of the weight discrepancy if there is any.

It's virtually impossible to determine who is at fault in this case.

First: The seller certainly seems to be telling the truth.

Second: It's very unlikely for a buyer to file a police report if the item was in the box. Not impossible, but very unlikely. sssuper says that there was a jewelry box inside the package, but that does not mean that the earrings were in that box when the package arrived.

Third: It's also unlikely that the PO dipped into the box because of the way it was shipped.

Again: Determining what went wrong in this situation would be very close to impossible without serious detective work and even then ?????

In addition: Chances are that the PO will honour the insurance claim in time.

This is just one of those situations ...................

thebarterersdog · ‎04-07-2014

Was this an auction or Buy it Now?

If an auction, I wouldn't have sold it to her with the rating she has. I would have set my listing to only allow those to bid who have higher ratings, good feedback, etc. History for expensive items like this is very important and this buyer did not have enough to "take a chance" that she would be honest. Secondly, if I had forgotten to fix my listing accordingly, then I would have cancelled her bid before the auction ended for the same reason. Had she slipped by, I would have refunded her money totally and re-listed after fixing my listing. It isn't the best way, the last suggestion, to conduct business and I don't recommend it, but you wouldn't be where you are now. I've been in this position with selling similar items and never have I allowed low rated buyers to bid, buy from me. Anything else, that's different. And it works for us in avoiding people like this buyer.

Of course it doesn't stop other types from trying. Next time, take a lot of photos of you wrapping the parcel. One would have helped you here. I've done this too and it works. Get estimates on your items too and include that cost in the item. Having a proof of evaluation included in the listing helps with insurances.

I am sorry that you have had this happen to you. It doesn't help hold faith in a system that you had thought better of.

Janet and Paul

mr.elmwood · ‎04-07-2014

J&P, it was a "best offer" with no appraisal. It was a, I do not mean this rudely, less than experienced seller, selling a high dollar widget. The potential for problems was great. Seller invoked too much trust for their displayed level of sophistication. It was trouble waiting to happen.

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i*m-stilll-here · ‎04-07-2014

Yikes!!

"Level of displayed sophistication???"

As with you: Not to be rude.............. but

Are you suggesting that this seller displayed less sophistication than you do?

For all you know the package really did arrive without the earrings.

Stranger things have happened.

i*m-stilll-here · ‎04-07-2014

@thebarterersdog wrote:

If an auction, I wouldn't have sold it to her with the rating she has. I would have set my listing to only allow those to bid who have higher ratings, good feedback, etc. History for expensive items like this is very important and this buyer did not have enough to "take a chance" that she would be honest.

_____________________________________________________

Some of my best buyers have 0 FB.

It means nothing.

Most sellers would do exactly as sssuper did.
The item was insured as much as the PO allowed. It was insured for $500 and it sold for less than $1,000.
More than anyone wants to lose but not over-the-top expensive either to warrant special measures.

If a buyer wants to pull this scam...........(if it was even a scam)................ then it sounds like there isn't much a seller can do about it.

I learned something.

If a buyer files a police report claiming that an empty box arrived paypal will refund.

Pretty hard to protect against that.

reallynicestamps · ‎04-08-2014

Since the Post Office will only insure for up to $500, it would have been a better move to ship by a courier who would insure.

Or to add third party insurance. I believemany posters have expressed satisfaction with shipinsurance who will do one-off insurance.

Which is all hindsight, but someone among the many lurkers may find it useful.

i*m-stilll-here · ‎04-08-2014

I'm not sure that TPIs will insure jewellery or coins at all, and that's why I didn't take a stab at that.

How do couriers insure coins and jewelry?

In any case, it's not even clear that the insurance will ever be honoured because there's a police report.

Changing the payment method might have made a difference but that's not practical either.

It's interesting that all that's required is that the buyer complain to the police for paypal to refund.

They didn't even wait for the outcome of the investigation from the way it sounds................. or did they?

reallynicestamps · ‎04-08-2014

Upstream your loss valuation was questioned because the only transaction we could see was for $999.99 and not $2000.

Yes half of the amount because the other half is of the same earrings that were sold in November but the buyer had buyers remorse and wanted to return the earrings.

This is not a loss, it is a failed transaction. You are only out the eBay/Paypal fees and the cost of shipping. I hope that was less than $1000

The only reason there was any kind of "return" policy on the November purchase is because EBay's reps suggested I have one and even told me to put fees (like restocking etc) upon return to discourage a return..

If you take Paypal, you take returns. A 'no returns' policy, in my opinion, is more likely to lead to Disputes, because an unhappy buyer thinks he cannot ask the seller.

.But when the buyer wanted to return the "beautiful" earrings as described by her...they gave her her full monies back including shipping ...and not less any restocking fees as was on the listings!

When an transaction goes to Dispute, and it doesn't have to, sellers who are in contact with unhappy buyers can work out a return/refund agreement with the buyer. For example, it is not unusual for a photograph of a damaged item to be accepted as proof and a refund given by the seller,outside the adversarial PP process.

Then if a Dispute is still opened, the seller can voluntarily refund, with or without return (I'd want my earrings back, too, but I have refunded when I really never wanted to see the item again). With this, there are no repercussions to the seller's account.

And finally, what seems to have happened here, the seller refused to refund, PP found in favour of the buyer and refunded from their own pocket, going after the seller's account for the funds. There are other repercussions on the seller's account.

..Sooo in total with the two sales, selling fees & PayPal fees I'm out almost $2000 and my item!

No.

You are counting chickens before they hatch.

You are out eBay and Paypal fees on two transactions + shipping on two transactions+ the original COST of the earrings.

Since you claim these were your grandmother's (although the description indicates you purchased them) the monetary cost was nil, and since you were selling them, the sentimental cost was pretty low too.

If and when Canada Post pays out on the $500 insurance, count that against your actual costs, and that is your profit, if any, on the sale.

sssupershopaholic · ‎04-13-2014

You are dead wrong!
Nowhere did I say I purchased them!? If this is the type of information you perceive without facts YOU are the very part of this problem that scares me for sellers! On further notes I am out over $2000 now. For once a "sale" is complete and you are up that revenue or monies, you pay bills, make purchased based on that income. Then to have the monies ripped out of your account not once but twice leaves you in the minus! As for a different "source" to mail the item...that is fine if you live in a big city...but when you live in a small community with very limited options CP may be the only option. And as one of the posters suggest most "couriers" do not insure jewelry or coins. And I'm sorry I can not be more specific but I KNOW the buyer took the earrings by several pieces of evidence that I can not divulge as the investigation is still underway by both the PO, USPS investigators and the police. Almost a month later and I have nothing...I am in the process of starting ARBUTRATION (which you sellers really need to look up) and launching a small claim. As one poster said "someone has to pay" I'm just hoping it's not me! Just for the record I have always been in "contact" with my sellers or buyers. The "funds" came directly out of my account and not PayPals as you suggest. And of course when it can not be resolved it goes to dispute. But I thought (as portrayed by EBay & Paypal) they would look at all the evidence and be fair and decide an out come?! I have a witness and other proof but that is not sufficient?! All she does is get a police report and that is good enough?! Well I have 2 police reports in, a witness, proof from the buyer, PO reports, IC3 reports and that is STILL not enough! JFYI Anyone can go down to the police station ask to file a police report, sit down fill it out and go up to the counter and get an officer to sign and date it, leave and never see that officer or station again! Easy scam if you ask me especially if PayPal is guiding you the whole time & actually call you and tell you when to go. And PayPal & EBay even tells you what to say to get your claim won!

mr.elmwood · ‎04-13-2014

I understand your math, but it is wrong. You SPENT the sale proceeds twice. That is on you.

You sold the earrings and then got them back, $1000 each way is a wash. The second sale is all that counts as the first evens out to zero.

You only had the one pair of earrings. You can only have one sale.

Purolater operates out of your town. You checked with them, right?

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amethyst1415 · ‎04-13-2014

I think you shouldn't have sold something so expensive on eBay. If you do want to sell expensive items you should have shipped with FedEx. Now I know you trust these post office people but you can't be sure somewhere along the way the earrings were taken so in my mind you should never pack your item in front of them.

I agree that you are all over the place with how much things cost and how much money you are out. Plus, PayPal holds your funds for 21 days if you are a new seller so you really shouldn't be out the money. I would rather leave it in there until I know everything is good with the transaction but I don't sell anything really expensive. Maybe they refunded the second person because you already had this happen once with the same earrings.

amethyst1415 · ‎04-13-2014

She also wrote in the feedback you called her derogatory names. Did you do that? I don't see why she would lie about that. You also have a new piece of expensive jewelry for sale. I probably wouldn't sell that right now.

mr.elmwood · ‎04-13-2014

JG. There are three sides to every story: buyer, seller, and what really happened.

I have found, that how a seller responds to the first communication, from the buyer, after the sale, sets the tone for the rest.

I have had first emails, from buyers, screaming and calling me every name imaginable. I respond with a "Sorry this did not go well, how can I help?", etc.

This de-escalates things very quickly.

I have found that many customers are scared of the system, get worked into a lather, and explode. They do not mean it, just, no experience with the system and anonymous sellers.

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i*m-stilll-here · ‎04-13-2014

sssuper: One thing you've never commented on is just what is in that police report?

Is it simply a statement that the box arrived empty or is there more to it?

Have you seen the report?

You mentioned taking it to small claims court. Where would the case be heard? In your town or the buyer's? When all is said and done that might your trump card.

What is the cost for filing in court?

If it's not too much, and the case would be heard in your town, then you'd likely win simply because it's unlikely that the buyer would show up in court.

HOWEVER: Even if you do win, how on earth would you ever collect? The buyer isn't even in Canada.