Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Has anyone else out there sold an item to an overseas buyer and had Ebay refund the item while it was still in transit to the buyer? And then left the seller in the lurch to try and collect the funds?

 

This has happened to me and the buyer is located in Tanzania and I am out $600.00 now for a professional video camera (used) that I shipped from Canada surface post....the only economical way to ship overseas. The buyer has had the camera now for 3 months and I do not have my money and Ebay will not help to get it. They passed the buck to Paypal which upset Paypal and they told me they could do nothing. 

 

After numerous conversation with Ebay...the obvious question of why you would refund the money when you have a tracking number and can see that the item has been shipped????

 

Cheers,

Seller screwed over by Ebay

Message 1 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

We are missing part of the story.

 

Shipping by surface can take months. Buyer has up to 45 days to file an INR. Camera obviously was not there inside the 45 days.

 

Buyer filed an INR, correct?

 

 

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Message 2 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Because, unfortunately, you cannot use Surface Post to send an item overseas. It takes too long.

 

Buyers have 30 days to file an Item Not Received claim through ebay, ergo, ebay expects buyers to have their items within 30 days.

 

Your buyer may have known this in advance. Were you clear about the shipping service to be used in the Item Description?

 

By the way, Tanzania is not a country I would ever ship-to. For the very reasons you are seeing.

 

A painful lesson. I'm sorry to hear it.

 

When you are starting out on ebay as a new seller, it is prudent to avoid Worldwide shipping and stick close to home, like USA and Canada specifically.

 

And if you are selling higher price items, it's better to do that with an account that has a higher feedback count. You are currently at one. Being a low feedback count seller will attract a certain subset of buyers who do not have your best interests at heart.

 

My feedback count is in the 1100 range and I am still leery listing items over the range of about $300.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 3 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

All too too true.

 

I'am actually surprised that eBay allowed a new member to sell overseas. I was under the impression that newbies were restricted to selling to Canada and the USA only.

 

Your best hope is Paypal.

They have up to 180 days (six months) for Disputes.

But unless you can prove delivery-- which means using a service that TRACKS  and confirms delivery of the parcel, PP will go with the buyer's complaint.

And as mentioned, it is quite possible that there is no fraud here: the buyer really has not received his purchase.

 

Keep in touch with the buyer and when you can see that the camera has been delivered, send a Request Money invoice through Paypal.

It might work.

 

 

 

Message 4 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Anonymous
Not applicable

Are you insane???  Send by Surface??  Use XpressPost to protect yourself, it includes a tracking number and insurance!!

Message 5 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

" The buyer has had the camera now for 3 months"

 

???

 

Do you have knowledge that the buyer actually received the item or are you simply assuming it must have been received since so much time went by?

 

If the buyer in fact confirmed receipt of the item, all you need to do is send him an invoice (request money) through PayPal.

 

"Seller screwed over by Ebay"

 

Not really. eBay had nothing to do with your decision to ship without insurance and adequate tracking. You used that method of shipping because it was 'economical".

 

If the buyer did in fact received the item and refuses to pay for it - put the blame there.  If the item was lost in transit and you did not properly insure it against loss, blame yourself, nobody else.

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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Hi there,

 

Yes I have confirmation from the buyer that he received it 3 months ago...I have emails also that he is promising to pay....but has not and is ignoring invoices sent to him via Paypal...

 

Surface was the only way to ship it as any other way would have cost more then the camera...

 

Thanks,

J

Message 7 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

HI femmefan,

 

No luck with Paypal....Ebay passed the buck onto Paypal and Paypal was shocked they did so...said had nothing to do with them as they are now separate companies....so Ebay was the one that I would have to rely on and they will do nothing but they kept their commission fee go figure....and so did Paypal...Ebay refunded the money to the buyer even though there was a tracking number and they could see the parcel left Canada on ship...just no tracking again until it was in Tanzania....

 

Yes I have email confirmation from buyer that he received it 3 months ago and emails saying he will pay but he has not done so...he is ignoring Paypal invoices...

 

Thanks,

Jacqueline

 

 

Message 8 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

HI again,

 

I did have a tracking number and it showed that the parcel left Canada on ship...just no tracking while it was on the ship...but tracking showed when it arrived in Tanzania...that is why I do not understand why Ebay would refund the buyer when they could see it was sent and on its way...they refunded the buyer when the parcel was still in "transit"....and then left me to try and collect the money again...

 

Thanks,

Jacqueline

Message 9 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Hi there,

 

I did have a tracking number and it showed the date of when the parcel left Canada on ship which Ebay and the buyer could see...no tracking while on ship though until it arrived in Tanzania....and I have an email confirmation from the buyer that he received it...Ebay and buyer could see the tracking and yet Ebay refunded him and left me in the lurch to then try and collect the money again after the buyer received it....

 

Thanks,

Jacqueline

Message 10 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Hi mjw,

 

Yes I was clear about the shipping time minimum and sent a tracking number...he and Ebay could see the date when the item left Canada on ship...but than no tracking while on ship until it arrived in Tanzania....and I have an email confirmation from him saying he received the camera and promised to pay...but he has not....

 

Thanks,

Jacqueline

Message 11 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Hi elmwood,

 

Even though I sent Ebay and the buyer a tracking number and stated it would take at least 6 weeks...the buyer filed a INR after only 28 days even though they could see it had left Canada on ship by the tracking number...this is a buyer I found out afterwards that has an online store in Tanzania and gets a lot of his product from China on Ebay so he is well aware of how long things take to ship to his country....

 

It takes me 3 weeks to get more surface parcel orders just from the US and 6 weeks for orders from China....so Ebays 30 days policy for anything sent overseas so out to lunch...as most buyers could not afford to pay courier service fees...

 

For the camera I sent to this buyer the shipping upgrade would have cost more than the camera price...

 

Thanks,

Jacqueline

 

 

Message 12 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

You're not going to like my reply but your buyer had the camera for free as soon as you agreed to ship via surface. Like I said before, eBay offers a 30-day Money Back Guarantee so therefore it is expected a buyer will receive their item during that time period.

The cost of shipping is irrelevant to you as a seller. Only speed matters, and it's up to the buyer to decide whether he or she accepts your terms. You decide how to ship as the seller. Not the buyer. This is a worst case scenario now.

Perhaps police can help you file a criminal complaint against this buyer, I don't know.
Message 13 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Also you are going to lose the Video Editing System that you have currently listed the same way as you lost this camera.

 

You need to cull the Worldwide Shipping. It appears you are willing to ship everywhere, even the highest of risk zones.

 

And make your shipping terms Xpresspost with signature. Calculated by Canada Post. 

 

At least, that's what I would do if I were you.

 

 

Message 14 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Bhutan? Seriously?

Message 15 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

Basically do not sell such items without proper tracking. If it costs too much to ship TO certain places don't ship there. Even with tracking and expensive shiping you are vulnerable to big losses in the case of ab SNAD claim. Ship these items to Canada and U.S. only.

 

Also your current listing shows free shipping to Canada and then in the body lists a shipping cost. I'd fix that before it too spells trouble.

 

eBay is tough place to start selling expensive items without as a new seller.

Message 16 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc

I implore you to re-consider your ship-to locations, and also the method of service used. And soon. Like, right away.

 

None of us here want to see you lose your shirt. 

 

In addition to the fact you are selling items of high-value, you also appear from your feedback count to be a new seller.

 

This puts a target on your back, and not the good kind. There is a certain subset of people who seek out new ebay sellers with valuable merchandise and attempt to exploit them for their apparent lack of experience.

 

I suspect that you have fallen victim to that already, please protect yourself so that it doesn't happen again.

 

We don't want to see you fail. 

Message 17 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc


@jacqueline2015jstj wrote:

 

1) Even though I sent Ebay and the buyer a tracking number and stated it would take at least 6 weeks...the buyer filed a INR after only 28 days even though they could see it had left Canada on ship by the tracking number...this is a buyer I found out afterwards that has an online store in Tanzania and gets a lot of his product from China on Ebay so he is well aware of how long things take to ship to his country....

 

2)  It takes me 3 weeks to get more surface parcel orders just from the US and 6 weeks for orders from China....so Ebays 30 days policy for anything sent overseas so out to lunch...as most buyers could not afford to pay courier service fees...

 

3)  For the camera I sent to this buyer the shipping upgrade would have cost more than the camera price...

 

 


My first advice would be to listen to the advice of the experienced sellers here who are trying to guide you in the right direction.  You are setting yourself up for another similar disaster with your current listing as well.   Beyond the loss of money to you, one more serious issue and you will find your seller status downgraded by eBay to the point where you might as well be invisible. 

 

I want to try to specifically respond to your 3 replies above, as they do tell me that you're not fully understanding the risks involved in selling on eBay. 

 

1(a)  Tracking is not equivalent to delivery confirmation.  Only delivery confirmation will protect you from an INR (Item Not Received) claim, but -- and this is critical -- the delivery must be within eBay's own delivery windows.  Which is another reason to avoid shipping expensive items to remote locations if you can't afford to lose a claim (in other words if your selling volume isn't large enough to absorb the hit).  

 

Further, as 'wigetc' pointed out above, even Xpresspost -- which has tracking, delivery/signature confirmation and insurance -- can't protect you from a SNAD ("Substantially Not as Described") claim.  

 

1(b)  Your description of the buyer tells me he was using you as easy prey -- a low-feedback seller using surface shipping to remote locations for an expensive product.  You can fix that situation for your next sale and protect yourself from such exploiters (see suggestions below). 

 

2)  EBay's delivery windows and their Money Back Guarantee ("MBG") are arguably unfair to sellers in many instances, but all sellers have to live with them.  If you're a new seller, eBay doesn't prevent you from using economy shipping, but they will punish you very quickly for it if it's slow, via the MBG and seller defects.  While it's true that many buyers are understanding about slow delivery, a lot aren't, and the worst types will take advantage of the MBG to get a free item, as you've seen. 

 

Again, if you aren't selling a large volume each month on eBay, your chances of having your selling restricted by eBay due to a couple of late parcels (or impatient buyers who use the MBG) is very high.  As a result, lower volume sellers need to be cautious about where they ship, what they sell, and what shipping services they use.  Self-insuring for the occasional loss is a good idea, but insurance won't prevent defects on your seller account. 

 

3)   Yes, the shipping upgrade would have cost more than the camera, and the buyer would have either paid it (if he really wanted it) or moved on.  If he'd paid for Xpresspost shipping, chances are he would have received his item within a week or so and would not have been able to file an INR/MBG claim.  Many of us restrict the parts of the world to which we'll sell and we show the true cost of fully tracked express service to international destinations for that reason.  It lessens the risk considerably, and means that we're more likely to get serious international buyers, not rip-off artists.  

 

Looking at the item you have currently listed, and in view of the comments above, here are my suggestions: 

 

  • I see you've revised your listing so that free shipping is shown to Canada under the shipping tab.  That's good, and was necessary to avoid real trouble with both buyers and eBay.  
  • Your international shipping is set at "worldwide".  In my opinion, this is a serious mistake if you're a new seller listing expensive items.  You don't want a repeat of the Tanzania incident.  And by using "worldwide" without an exclusion list, you have countries on your ship-to list that many sellers completely avoid (such as Brazil, Russian Federation, and many others). 
  • Either set up a ship-to "exclusion" list (use the "Preferences" tab on your seller account), or remove "Worldwide" and indicate specific ship-to international locations.  The "safest" international destination for a new Canadian seller is the U.S.  Even countries like Germany have had reported slow delivery and postal fraud issues.  My best advice would be to restrict your ship-to locations to Canada and the U.S.  Those are most likely going to be your biggest markets anyway. 
  • Remove the red text from your listing photo of the monitor.  If the eBay bots find this, they'll take your listing down and will probably give your seller account a demerit. 
  • Include more photos in your listing gallery -- use up all 12 that are available, and use a couple of close-ups.  Showing just the monitor isn't much of a sales enticement. 
  • I honestly had difficulty figuring out from your description section what exactly it was you were selling.  Granted, most people buying this kind of stuff will have some technical knowledge, but don't begin your description with: "Suite only has about 10 hours on it so in mint condition."  That doesn't tell a buyer immediately what you're selling.  You should put a brief general description right up front, as the first paragraph, then include the list of exactly what the "suite" of items is (move it up from the bottom where it's almost lost). 
  • With regard to your shipping costs, once you've restricted your ship-to locations to, for example, Canada and the U.S., you'll be able to enter a flat rate shipping cost to the U.S. that is far more precise.  Your choices for a fairly large and heavy item will likely be either Expedited Air Parcel or Xpresspost.  If you can get the items into 2 boxes rather than 4, all the better.
  • Finally, I'd suggest doing some buying on eBay -- any small items from anywhere will do -- in order not only to get a better feel for the online eBay process, but also to build up a bit of feedback.  It's a lot easier to accumulate feedback as a buyer than as a seller.  And, as others have said, a low feedback seller is a target for buyers with nefarious intentions.  To this I'd add that it wouldn't hurt to list a few lower-priced items that are easier to ship (say in "oversize" lettermail format within Canada or via Light Packet to the U.S.).  That will give potential buyers the impression that you have some experience and are selling on a regular basis.  It might also help to build up your feedback. 

I hope these suggestions will help.  No one wants to see a new seller fail for lack of understanding of what we all know is a very complex and difficult eBay system to learn to sell with.  Best of luck! 

Message 18 of 19
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Has anyone else out there when shipping items purchase to an overseas buyer had Ebay return the purc


@jacqueline2015jstj wrote:

Has anyone else out there sold an item to an overseas buyer and had Ebay refund the item while it was still in transit to the buyer? And then left the seller in the lurch to try and collect the funds?

 


Yes, sellers in China every day of their lives when they sell to Canada only to have Canadian scammers buyers leap to "the Resolution Center at the bottom of this page" and get their money back after 30 days.  Every day Canadian buyers are advised to do this to overseas sellers when, like you, they post their message to the boards.  

 

I don't like all that cheap Chinese garbage and wish there was some way to exclude it entirely but your story shows how it is to be on the other end and all that is so wrong with policies that make it easy to file claims early and people who want cheap or free shipping but won't WAIT for the inevitable long time it takes.

 

Here is what I think YOU should do:

Read pierrelebel's post and accept that shipping 'economically' just to make an overseas sale means when you lose it is your own fault and not the fault of eBay.  If you can't prove DELIVERY then eBay will side with the buyer every time.  

 

Read mjwl2006's posts about shipping and setting up your listings.  Right now any international buyer will see a shipping fee of $150 and a Canadian buyer will see FREE SHIPPING.  If that is not what you intended you should change it now.  

 

Read through rose-dee's advice about all this especially about buying a few things to increase your FB score if you can.  It shows others you know a bit about eBay.

 

REPORT the buyer to eBay.  Either phone or the REPORT A BUYER option or both.

 

Get to know how to set up listings and how to ship.  If you did this earlier you wouldn't have lost the $600 because it is long lost now and an expensive lesson to learn.  Stick with Canada and the USA at first.  Better a slow sale than a total loss.  

 

Make sure to add the Tanzanian buyer to your list of BLOCKED BIDDERS.  

 

Message 19 of 19
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