Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

I just spent over an hour responding to a chargeback -- my comments plus preparing documentation in PDF format and attaching it to my response (most of you have been there I'm sure).

 

I have everything but the delivery confirmation.  It was a lettermail item shipped to another province.  I have the note I sent her, through the eBay messaging system, confirming the purchase, advising when the item would be shipped and when she could expect delivery.  I also have her positive feedback which is identical to other feedback she has left for her purchases.

 

I can understand a chargeback if an item was not received or grossly misrepresented.  The one that really gets to me is the "unauthorized use of credit card".  I always suspect that it is either buyer's remorse, or a daughter purchasing something without her mother's consent. (One case I had a few years ago was a woman who filed a chargeback because she and her husband were divorcing and he decided he wanted to keep the item and refused to give it to her.  She admitted this in her e-mail to me, but of course I still lost).

 

I had occasion to file a chargeback a couple of years ago when I did not receive an item (this was done directly and not through PayPal).  I had all sorts of forms to fill out, with correspondence back and forth, and at least 3 months for resolution.  Yet it seems so easy with PayPal, doesn't it, even when there is reasonable evidence provided by the seller.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

Based on my experience, I don't think that they will look at any of that. In the case of an unauthorized use chargeback, all they want to see is proof of shipment or delivery.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

I have a "not authorized" case under review right now.  I have proof of shipment but not tracking.  Purchaser has also left Positive Feedback for the item and I have notified PayPal of same.  Will I win?

 

A few years ago I got a charge back from another purchaser for "unauthorized payment."  I sent copies of all  correspondence.

Then the purchaser "remembered" the authorization and changed his claim to "not as described".  No  problem, was told to return item and refund will be issued.  Then he changed his claim to "Item Not Received".  eBay in their infinite wisdom ruled in his favor.  I lost.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

I have a "not authorized" case under review right now.  I have proof of shipment but not tracking.  Purchaser has also left Positive Feedback for the item and I have notified PayPal of same.  Will I win?

 

Not likely Smiley Sad  Nor am I likely to.

 

A few years ago I got a charge back from another purchaser for "unauthorized payment."  I sent copies of all correspondence.  Then the purchaser "remembered" the authorization and changed his claim to "not as described".  No problem, was told to return item and refund will be issued.  Then he changed his claim to "Item Not Received".  eBay in their infinite wisdom ruled in his favor.  I lost.

 

Outrageous, isn't it?

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

I have an "item not received" claim.  Purchaser was denied a refund because I have tracking number with confirmed delivery.  She  then went to  her credit card company and filed a claim there for "non receipt".  Now my funds are still being held.  She also gave me negative feedback in which she mentions the PayPal claim which I thought was basis for removal.   I complained but the negative is still there.  

This has been going on for months.  Obviously a confirmed tracking number means nothing.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I have an "item not received" claim.  Purchaser was denied a refund because I have tracking number with confirmed delivery.  She  then went to  her credit card company and filed a claim there for "non receipt".  Now my funds are still being held.  She also gave me negative feedback in which she mentions the PayPal claim which I thought was basis for removal.   I complained but the negative is still there.  

This has been going on for months.  Obviously a confirmed tracking number means nothing.


That's just awful.  These incidents just sicken me.  So much for seller protection!!

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I have a "not authorized" case under review right now.  I have proof of shipment but not tracking.  Purchaser has also left Positive Feedback for the item and I have notified PayPal of same.  Will I win?

 

A few years ago I got a charge back from another purchaser for "unauthorized payment."  I sent copies of all  correspondence.

Then the purchaser "remembered" the authorization and changed his claim to "not as described".  No  problem, was told to return item and refund will be issued.  Then he changed his claim to "Item Not Received".  eBay in their infinite wisdom ruled in his favor.  I lost.


If you have shown Paypal proof of shipment to the paypal address then yes, you should win as that's all you need for an unauthorized use chargeback.  If I were you I would phone Paypal and ask them why they haven't closed the case yet since you did show them proof of shipment.

 

If your proof of shipment is online then it should be a slam dunk win. I imagine that proof via a paper trail takes longer to rule on.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I have an "item not received" claim.  Purchaser was denied a refund because I have tracking number with confirmed delivery.  She  then went to  her credit card company and filed a claim there for "non receipt".  Now my funds are still being held.  She also gave me negative feedback in which she mentions the PayPal claim which I thought was basis for removal.   I complained but the negative is still there.  

This has been going on for months.  Obviously a confirmed tracking number means nothing.


Did she win the chargeback for non receipt?

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?



If you have shown Paypal proof of shipment to the paypal address then yes, you should win as that's all you need for an unauthorized use chargeback.  If I were you I would phone Paypal and ask them why they haven't closed the case yet since you did show them proof of shipment.


Not really true. I had such "proof" - a label printed from PayPal to China (I paid about 22 dollars). The buyer opened INR dispute and I lost it. Money was not charged back automatically, but after 3 weeks or so I got a "decision" from PayPal and money was taken from my account.  

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

Concerning the "unauthorized use" you are maybe right. I remember another case last year, where money just were taken from my account without any warning (with "unauthorized use" explanation"), then I got a decision from PayPal and money was transferred back to my account. So maybe it works only with "unauthorized use", but if the buyer opens a INR dispute, the seller will always lose if can't provide a verifiable tracking number.

 

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

They have accepted my tracking and ruled in my favor when she filed "not received" with them.  But now that she filed complaint with credit card company, its a different story.  This is where Seller Protection should kick in.  Instead, they decided to take away my money.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I have an "item not received" claim.  Purchaser was denied a refund because I have tracking number with confirmed delivery.  She  then went to  her credit card company and filed a claim there for "non receipt".  Now my funds are still being held.  She also gave me negative feedback in which she mentions the PayPal claim which I thought was basis for removal.   I complained but the negative is still there.  

This has been going on for months.  Obviously a confirmed tracking number means nothing.


Did she win the chargeback for non receipt?


First time around, yes!  But now that the credit card company stepped in, they have taken back the payment from me and is still being held.  Isn't this when Seller protection should kick in?

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@38e_avenue wrote:

Concerning the "unauthorized use" you are maybe right. I remember another case last year, where money just were taken from my account without any warning (with "unauthorized use" explanation"), then I got a decision from PayPal and money was transferred back to my account. So maybe it works only with "unauthorized use", but if the buyer opens a INR dispute, the seller will always lose if can't provide a verifiable tracking number.

 


We are NOT talking about an "unauthorized use".  Claim was for "Item not Received" and I have confirmed delivery confirmation and still my money is being held.

 

 

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I have an "item not received" claim.  Purchaser was denied a refund because I have tracking number with confirmed delivery.  She  then went to  her credit card company and filed a claim there for "non receipt".  Now my funds are still being held.  She also gave me negative feedback in which she mentions the PayPal claim which I thought was basis for removal.   I complained but the negative is still there.  

This has been going on for months.  Obviously a confirmed tracking number means nothing.


Did she win the chargeback for non receipt?


No, she didn't the first time.  But now that she went to her credit card company, the funds have been taken away from me and its been a long time.  

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@38e_avenue wrote:


If you have shown Paypal proof of shipment to the paypal address then yes, you should win as that's all you need for an unauthorized use chargeback.  If I were you I would phone Paypal and ask them why they haven't closed the case yet since you did show them proof of shipment.


Not really true. I had such "proof" - a label printed from PayPal to China (I paid about 22 dollars). The buyer opened INR dispute and I lost it. Money was not charged back automatically, but after 3 weeks or so I got a "decision" from PayPal and money was taken from my account.  


A label printed through PayPal is not proof of anything, except that you bought a label.  Doesn't mean you mailed it.

I have receipt from the post office that I mailed it and also delivery confirmation with tracking   that shows delivery has taken place.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

I have an "item not received" claim.  Purchaser was denied a refund because I have tracking number with confirmed delivery.  She  then went to  her credit card company and filed a claim there for "non receipt".  Now my funds are still being held.  She also gave me negative feedback in which she mentions the PayPal claim which I thought was basis for removal.   I complained but the negative is still there.  

This has been going on for months.  Obviously a confirmed tracking number means nothing.


Did she win the chargeback for non receipt?


First time around, yes!  But now that the credit card company stepped in, they have taken back the payment from me and is still being held.  Isn't this when Seller protection should kick in?


Correction:  I have won the first  time but payment has been taken again now that she filed with credit card company.

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Based on my experience, I don't think that they will look at any of that. In the case of an unauthorized use chargeback, all they want to see is proof of shipment or delivery.


I agree and I'm prepared to lose the money.  But seeing that claim when I first woke up this morning has ruined my whole weekend.  It just brings back the memory of all the fraudulent buyers I've had to deal with in the past and that I've tried to forget about.

 

PayPal, in their communication, leads you to believe that they have a team of "Chargeback Specialists" working on your behalf.  That's so offensive.  They could let them all go, for all the good they do in even attempting to understand the seller's position.  What it boils down to is "no tracking - buyer wins 100% of the time; with tracking, seller might win".  It's that simple -- no matter what other evidence you have that the buyer is being dishonest or how good your selling history is.

 

Sure, I could list $15 and $20 items, with a $12 to $15 shipping charge just to have tracking, but those listings would sit there until the planet exploded.  So we take our chances and hope that we are dealing with honest buyers.  And, fortunately, most of the time we are.  But anytime I see anything from eBay or PayPal about seller protection, my first thought is -- really, who do you think you're kidding?  

 

What I'm wondering is if I'm going to get a defect for this.  That would be the final insult.  Someone uses a buyer's card "supposedly" without authorization, the seller ships in good faith, the buyer gets their money refunded and the seller gets a defect for a situation beyond their control?

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

Wow there must be a rash of them right now. I just got my first chargeback ever - maybe I am lucky but then am not a big seller. The reason was " buyer did not authorize charge". I just followed the correct procedure - got notification of payment, printed label off Paypal and mailed. Buyer received item as positive FB was left BUT I too sell smaller priced items and our expensive Canadian tracked packets just don't cut it so I shipped via US small packet air. However we know it did arrive as +FB left. Guess from reading all your comments I am likely screwed. Also hope this does not result in a defect as I just lost my Top Seller Status this month due to a couple of cancellations that occurred last year (did so to rebill for combined shipping after payment before I knew it would become an issue). They will drop off and keeping my fingers crossed if nothing goes wrong this month I am projected to get Top Seller Status back on Dec. 20th.

This really seems unfair and I really don't understand how we can be held liable for Paypal using the credit card information that is supplied to them that we basically know nothing about. When I asked about the seller protection (yes it IS sounding like a joke) she said well you usually have to have tracked packet for that - I said well it is not a question of whether or not it arrived as FB was left saying it did BUT I expect it will not be found in my favor. I asked if I should contact the buyer to see what was going on and they said yes I should. Likely won't hear from them but did send an email.

This really does seem ridiculous, certainly more than a little frustrating. Seems like the seller is never right any more even when they are right!!

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?

I understand where you are coming from.  I don't think you ever get used to it.  It hurts every time!  Its not just about the money, its about loss of trust and faith in our fellow men.  I hope you don't get a defect because you did nothing to deserve one.  Don't worry sbout your seller standing either, I learned it has nothing to do with where your item will appear on the list.

 

I had real good sales in July, it doubled in August and I hit an all time record high in September.  ( I actually had more items listed in every category I sell than anyone else.)    Then ALL my listings got put at the very end of the last pages in every category.  I added more listings and they all went to the very end.   I called eBay and the young lady  read a script to me.  I asked for a supervisor, he was not much better.  I asked for someone higher and got hung up on after waiting for 1 1/2 hours.  I stayed at the bottom of the list for 10 days, then started creeping up.  Then the dead beat bidders came in hordes.  

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Has anyone ever won a chargeback dispute when there was no delivery confirmation?


@gifts_of_elegance wrote:

 

Then the dead beat bidders came in hordes.  


Conjures up images of The Walking Dead LOL  I certainly don't mean to make light of this ... it's just that it's the first time I've smiled all day.  You're right, it's very disheartening.

 

I have never been able to understand how search placement works.  When I search for my own listings, they seem to be reasonably placed, but then I'm told that placement is different when it's someone other than the seller doing the searching.  Also these fits and starts are confusing.  Sometimes I'll go two weeks with only 2 or 3 sales and then, gangbusters, for two weeks and 2 or 3 sales a day.  I know about busy and slow seasons but these active periods are different.  I've assumed that it has to do with the placement of my listings but I have no idea how one can influence that.

 

And, katlover, I wish I could tell you that there's a chance you might prevail, but I don't think so.  That's why I titled my post "Has Anyone Ever ..... .." , because I don't know of anyone who's won a chargeback dispute where there was no tracking.

 

I really wish that when PayPal advises you that a dispute has been opened, they tell you upfront, "The dispute will automatically be decided in favour of the claimant, unless you can provide proof of delivery."  That would save us a lot of time, effort and heartache.

 

 

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