eBay

forester_studios · ‎10-03-2015

Hi everyone -

Just wondering if anyone can advise me on the current way to refund a buyer without getting a defect.

I sent a package to a buyer about a month ago and they claim it never arrived. It was a low cost item, sent without tracking.

The buyer has emailed several times and has been pleasant and patient as I told them to wait a bit longer to see if it arrived. They have not filed any claim with ebay yet.

I think it would be easier to just refund them at this point instead of risking a defect.

Can someone tell me the current process to do this? Would I just refund the amount through paypal?

Any useful advice would be greatly appreciated as the buyer emailed again today and I don't want to drag the process out any longer.

Thanks.

cumos55 · ‎10-03-2015

Refund through Paypal.

Then under the Resolution Centre on eBay file a .....

Cancel the transaction.... with the reason...

Buyer Requested cancellation ... and you will NOT get a defect

forester_studios · ‎10-03-2015

The buyer has not requested cancellation. They seem to think that their post office returned the package for some reason and they want the package reshipped. After a month I am doubtful it will ever show up and I'd rather refund the buyer before they file an undelivered claim through ebay.

momcqueen · ‎10-03-2015

Cumos is giving you the right way to do it. Best not to involve the Resolution Centre if the buyer has not filed at INR. Refund through paypal and cancel the present transaction on ebay. I might also use that there was a problem with the buyer's address if that option is presented and the buyer seems to think so anyway. That way, the buyer has their money back, you have recovered your fees for selling it, and from there, you may both decide how to proceed with putting a new one in their hands. One must presumed the original is lost and gone for good after a month.

It is good that the buyer is not upset with you.

Unless you're saying the buyer wants his money back and the item reshipped? That doesn't make sense.

Or maybe you want to refund him but they want another instead?

Can you simply send him another but this time tracked, both the item and tracking at your own expense? If it was low-cost to begin with, you won't be out-of-pocket too much in terms of item loss. Of course, it does mean you're giving stuff away now but sometimes that's a small enough price to pay to keep an account defect-free and a buyer happy. Do you have any reason to doubt the validity of what they are telling you?

forester_studios · ‎10-03-2015

The items were comic books and I do not have any copies to send again. They were shipped the end of August. Three and a half weeks later I get an email from the buyer which includes the following -

"My local post office took it upon itself and decided that I did not live at my present address anymore. If the comics where returned back to you, please send them back. I have straightened out the confusion" He then gives the address he wants the items sent to if they show up. It has one number in the postal code different from what he has in his ebay/paypay info.

So obviously there is a problem with his address. I emailed him back about the difference in his postal code. Three days later he finally responds that the original address is correct. Also he spelled his last name different in the shipping info than the follow up emails (4 to this point). He is also a new member who only signed up in July.

I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt when judging their honesty, but the whole scenario is beginning to make me wonder. That's why I think it may be best to just refund.

Any input you provide is greatly appreciated.

jt-libra · ‎10-03-2015

@forester_studios wrote:
The items were comic books and I do not have any copies to send again. They were shipped the end of August. Three and a half weeks later I get an email from the buyer which includes the following -

"My local post office took it upon itself and decided that I did not live at my present address anymore. If the comics where returned back to you, please send them back. I have straightened out the confusion" He then gives the address he wants the items sent to if they show up. It has one number in the postal code different from what he has in his ebay/paypay info.

So obviously there is a problem with his address. I emailed him back about the difference in his postal code. Three days later he finally responds that the original address is correct. Also he spelled his last name different in the shipping info than the follow up emails (4 to this point). He is also a new member who only signed up in July.

I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt when judging their honesty, but the whole scenario is beginning to make me wonder. That's why I think it may be best to just refund.

Any input you provide is greatly appreciated.

The buyer has been patient. You should refund immediately (through PayPal). As cumos and mj have stated, next to the transaction in "My eBay", select Cancel Order, and then choose "problem with address" (this is not the actual wording but I don't remember what it says). As long the refund is processed first, the order will be cancelled, you won't get a defect and your FVF's will be credited back to your account fairly quickly.

I have had a couple of parcels returned to me (at my expense) because the Postal Code was incorrect. A variation in the spelling of his last name should not make a difference.

He may have been at fault with the error in the Postal Code, but keep in mind that he can still leave feedback; even a neutral will give you a defect. If I were you, I would send a sincere apology and perhaps offer him a discount on another purchase with you. This may resolve the issue satisfactorily and hopefully prevent a negative/neutral feedback.

jt-libra · ‎10-03-2015

Further to my post, it can take quite a while sometimes to receive the returned parcel. You may still get it back.

In the meantime, I would still offer him a discount on another purchase and advise him that if the comics are returned to you, you'll re-sell them to him at a discounted price as a thank-you for any inconvenience. Make sure the Postal Code is correct

forester_studios · ‎10-03-2015

Well I took everyone's advice. Refunded through paypal. When I went to cancel order on ebay it said it was too late to cancel the order. So I guess I am screwed and will get no fvf back and likely a defect as well. The advice everyone gave is totally incorrect! Not happy.

jt-libra · ‎10-03-2015

That's unfortunate. I've never refunded after 30 days; I do it immediately that I hear of a problem.

You were going to have to refund in any event since it wasn't likely that the buyer was going to wait any longer. You even stated, in your post, that "I think it may be best to just refund." So there really was no way to avoid this defect since it was past the 30-day time frame.

No one was trying to steer you in the wrong direction because what we recommended you do is what we, in fact, do to avoid a defect. It didn't register with me that the transaction was more than 30 days ago.

You may still have a chance of avoiding a negative or neutral feedback through good communication with the buyer. You have 100% feedback so you must be doing something right. I would strive to avoid the negative feedback and not worry too, too much about one defect. No one likes them, but one won't hurt your standing overall.

forester_studios · ‎10-03-2015

I mentioned in my previous post that the package was mailed at the end of August. The buyer didn't inform me until three and a half weeks later that there was a problem. If I had known that ebay had a silly rule of 30 days, I would have sent a refund immediately.

However since the buyer requested I resend the package if it was returned, I thought it best to give the post office another week. If I had known about this 30 day nonsense, I would not have waited. I really am getting tired of ebays increasingly complex, convoluted system of endless rules.

Yes I have 100 percent positive FB because I work hard to sell good products while providing good service to my customers. I already have 2 defects. One was left by a buyer who bought a cd and didn't bother to listen to it before requesting a return. Once he listened to it he realized it had the song on it that he wanted and was very happy with the purchase and apologized profusely in an email. The second was due to an Ikea catalog sent to a buyer in the US. He wasn't happy because it was a catalog for Canada (even though it was printed in the states).

So another defect might not lose my top rated seller discount but it's getting close. Maybe ebay wants to stop giving discounts to sellers.

Anyway I do appreciate everyone's help. It is obvious that no one can figure out all of ebays crazy rules!

rose-dee · ‎10-04-2015

@jt-libra wrote:
The buyer has been patient. You should refund immediately (through PayPal). As cumos and mj have stated, next to the transaction in "My eBay", select Cancel Order, and then choose "problem with address" (this is not the actual wording but I don't remember what it says). As long the refund is processed first, the order will be cancelled, you won't get a defect and your FVF's will be credited back to your account fairly quickly.

Hi 'jt' -- I keep seeing this advice recently, i.e. to refund through Paypal, then cancel through eBay, but I'm wondering when this became the norm. I thought that any full refund would generate an automatic defect.

I also wondered whether refunding first through Paypal, then hoping that the buyer will accept the cancellation on the basis of the reason given, might be tricky, even if the refund itself didn't generate a defect. My earlier understanding was that a buyer could refuse to accept a cancellation (say, under the circumstances described by the OP) and thus force the transaction to be completed. That would put the seller in a really bad place, wouldn't it?

I must admit this whole business of refunds/returns/cancellations has been hugely confusing ever since eBay got its fingers in the works. I just wish they had left sellers to sort these things out on their own.

The reason I'm asking is that (touch wood!) I haven't yet had to deal with a return/refund situation under the newer rules, but would like to understand and be prepared. Mind you, come February, it all changes again, doesn't it? Ridiculous, I'd say!

maggiebvintage2010 · ‎10-04-2015

Hi "forester_studios"

I had a similar circumstance last spring, refunded through PayPal, then tried to cancel on eBay and received the same message - too late to cancel the order. This did not result in a defect. My guess is that since no cancellation actually occurred, no defect could result.

jt-libra · ‎10-04-2015

@rose-dee wrote:
@jt-libra wrote:
The buyer has been patient. You should refund immediately (through PayPal). As cumos and mj have stated, next to the transaction in "My eBay", select Cancel Order, and then choose "problem with address" (this is not the actual wording but I don't remember what it says). As long the refund is processed first, the order will be cancelled, you won't get a defect and your FVF's will be credited back to your account fairly quickly.

Hi 'jt' -- I keep seeing this advice recently, i.e. to refund through Paypal, then cancel through eBay, but I'm wondering when this became the norm. I thought that any full refund would generate an automatic defect.

I also wondered whether refunding first through Paypal, then hoping that the buyer will accept the cancellation on the basis of the reason given, might be tricky, even if the refund itself didn't generate a defect. My earlier understanding was that a buyer could refuse to accept a cancellation (say, under the circumstances described by the OP) and thus force the transaction to be completed. That would put the seller in a really bad place, wouldn't it?

I must admit this whole business of refunds/returns/cancellations has been hugely confusing ever since eBay got its fingers in the works. I just wish they had left sellers to sort these things out on their own.

The reason I'm asking is that (touch wood!) I haven't yet had to deal with a return/refund situation under the newer rules, but would like to understand and be prepared. Mind you, come February, it all changes again, doesn't it? Ridiculous, I'd say!

A few months ago, I posted something about the delay in waiting for a buyer to complete their role in agreeing to a "mutual cancellation" and effectively having your item off the market for several days. In response, several sellers steered me to the eBay "cancel order" option next to the "sold" transaction in My eBay which I was not even aware existed at that time. It may have been in the Spring Update, I'm not sure.

I have been using this option for several months now, both with items purchased and then cancelled upon request of the buyer, and for items which had already been paid and which I refunded (selecting the second reason "buyer asked to cancel the order, or there's an issue with the buyer's address"). In each case (there have only been 3 or 4), there was no defect, I received my FVF's promptly and was able to relist the item.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't know what purpose the old "mutual agreement" even serves. In the OP's circumstance, if it had been dealt with in the 30-day period, the buyer would likely have said "no" to the mutual cancellation and the transaction would have had to be completed. On the other hand, if the OP had advised the buyer that a refund would be issued and the order cancelled, the seller could have chosen the “cancel order” option in eBay and avoided the defect. Both parties could have come to some arrangement about how to deal wit the item once it was returned to the seller or if it finally arrived at the original destination. The buyer does not see the reason selected by the seller when cancelling the order.

I don't have an answer though as to how to avoid a defect after the 30-day deadline.

momcqueen · ‎10-04-2015

To the best of my knowledge and experience, whether you as a seller get steered to the new Cancel Order with two reasons or the old Mutual Cancellation page with its alternative ten reasons is dependent only on what site the buyer was using when making the purchase. I've had three Cancel Order requests from Italy this week and they all routed themselves through the old system. Nothing I did affected where I went. This, of course, bears no relevance on the more-than-32-days issue the OP faced.

jt-libra · ‎10-04-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:
To the best of my knowledge and experience, whether you as a seller get steered to the new Cancel Order with two reasons or the old Mutual Cancellation page with its alternative ten reasons is dependent only on what site the buyer was using when making the purchase. I've had three Cancel Order requests from Italy this week and they all routed themselves through the old system. Nothing I did affected where I went. This, of course, bears no relevance on the more-than-32-days issue the OP faced.

That's good to know.

There was only one occasion where a buyer used the official eBay cancel order request within one hour of purchase and I simply had to agree to cancel. In each of the other cases, it was through the messaging system that the buyer contacted me to request a cancellation or, alternatively, through discussion, we decided the best course of action was to cancel the transaction. Therefore, I was able to go directly to the Cancel Order option.

The individual who used the eBay cancel order request was from the U.S., so I'm assuming that since I only sell to North America, I'm not likely to get directed to the mutual cancellation page which international sellers may have to use.

BTW, it's been so long since I used the Mutual Cancellation option that I didn't realize it had 10 reasons for cancellation.

momcqueen · ‎10-04-2015

@jt-libra wrote:
@mjwl2006 wrote:
To the best of my knowledge and experience, whether you as a seller get steered to the new Cancel Order with two reasons or the old Mutual Cancellation page with its alternative ten reasons is dependent only on what site the buyer was using when making the purchase. I've had three Cancel Order requests from Italy this week and they all routed themselves through the old system. Nothing I did affected where I went. This, of course, bears no relevance on the more-than-32-days issue the OP faced.
That's good to know.

There was only one occasion where a buyer used the official eBay cancel order request within one hour of purchase and I simply had to agree to cancel. In each of the other cases, it was through the messaging system that the buyer contacted me to request a cancellation or, alternatively, through discussion, we decided the best course of action was to cancel the transaction. Therefore, I was able to go directly to the Cancel Order option.

The individual who used the eBay cancel order request was from the U.S., so I'm assuming that since I only sell to North America, I'm not likely to get directed to the mutual cancellation page which international sellers may have to use.

BTW, it's been so long since I used the Mutual Cancellation option that I didn't realize it had 10 reasons for cancellation.

We don't any longer. That was the old way. I am quite frankly perplexed by the whole process. No matter what steps a seller takes, the headlines on the messages or webpages to which one is directed almost always contradict the content. And, yeah. I've had dozens of Cancel Order requests, literally dozens and dozens and none were within the hour that I can recall, none were requested via the proper channels and most involved waiting ten painful days while the buyer's request was subsequently ignored by the buyers themselves.

When one sells toys, one quickly discovers that parents hand their smartphones to their children to play with and those children instead shop on ebay. If only those children were also automatically logged into paypal when it happened, I'd be swimming in sales.

forester_studios · ‎10-04-2015

Hi - I do not see any defect yet. So hopefully I won't receive one. I emailed the buyer last night, but they have not responded. I guess I will have to wait and see what happens.

zee-chan · ‎10-04-2015

Sorry I didn't have time to read all the other posts yet.

Last month I did a refund directly on Paypal (through the transaction I was paid) because buyer said her novel didn't arrive. No case was opened. I did NOT do the mutual cancellation (it didn't come across my mind) and I didn't mind eating the $1.50 eBay fee anyway if it means less trouble. No defect so far for this.

rose-dee · ‎10-05-2015

@zee-chan wrote:

Last month I did a refund directly on Paypal (through the transaction I was paid) because buyer said her novel didn't arrive. No case was opened. I did NOT do the mutual cancellation (it didn't come across my mind) and I didn't mind eating the $1.50 eBay fee anyway if it means less trouble. No defect so far for this.

I wonder if eBay is already "transitioning" over to its new position/policy, i.e. that a refund is not a problem unless one or the other party says it is (to eBay). It may, as other posters have suggested, also be connected with which site your buyer purchased from -- perhaps .com is already into the new mode.

The whole returns/refunds/cancellation process has been a complete mess, in my view. It was high time eBay simplified it, since the further they jabbed their fingers into the business between seller and buyer in this area, the more ludicrous the whole process became. Not to mention punishing sellers with defects for simply trying to do the right thing.

This is the one area of the Fall Seller Update I am glad to see changed. (We won't talk about the on-time delivery Question).

zee-chan · ‎10-06-2015

@rose-dee wrote:
@zee-chan wrote:

Last month I did a refund directly on Paypal (through the transaction I was paid) because buyer said her novel didn't arrive. No case was opened. I did NOT do the mutual cancellation (it didn't come across my mind) and I didn't mind eating the $1.50 eBay fee anyway if it means less trouble. No defect so far for this.
I wonder if eBay is already "transitioning" over to its new position/policy, i.e. that a refund is not a problem unless one or the other party says it is (to eBay). It may, as other posters have suggested, also be connected with which site your buyer purchased from -- perhaps .com is already into the new mode.

The whole returns/refunds/cancellation process has been a complete mess, in my view. It was high time eBay simplified it, since the further they jabbed their fingers into the business between seller and buyer in this area, the more ludicrous the whole process became. Not to mention punishing sellers with defects for simply trying to do the right thing.

This is the one area of the Fall Seller Update I am glad to see changed. (We won't talk about the on-time delivery Question).

I don't know if a defect would've resulted if I clicked refund via eBay instead though (which would've given me back my FVF) and I'd rather not experiment that to find out... Lol.