eBay

rose-dee · ‎11-20-2015

Hello all,

I don't often sell to Europe (outside the U.K.), but I recently sold and shipped a somewhat expensive item (ca. $200) to Austria via Tracked Packet. It got there within an amazing 4 days, but the tracking has since been showing it stuck in Austrian customs for 5 full days now.

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has sold and shipped recently to Austria on whether this is normal. I don't want to alarm my buyer by raising the subject with them directly, at least not yet. I'm sure my buyer (if they're checking the online tracking) can see the same thing, and for all I know this may be the usual expectation.

The other explanation, which I really don't want to contemplate at this juncture, is that the buyer is balking at paying the duty/taxes/VAT and has decided not to pick up his parcel.

I sell mostly to the U.S. and U.K., where Customs transit times are usually less than 2 days, so a 5-day customs delay seems unreasonable. Have other sellers experienced this in shipping to Austria in particular?

Thanks!

P.S. I should add that the shipment happened prior to the Paris attacks, so border closures, airport delays, etc. shouldn't have been an issue.

dutchman48 · ‎11-20-2015

Curious question Was this item too large to send light packet?

lucitabby · ‎11-20-2015

I don't know if you have already checked it or if it would show any additional information

but try the Austrian Post website.

https://www.post.at/en/track_trace.php?language=en

hlmacdon · ‎11-20-2015

It is not unusual for a few reasons, depending on where it actually is in transit. First, with the Post Expres program that tracked packet operates under, tracking scans are only contractually guaranteed (I use that term loosely) for customs entry and final delivery to customer. The time from customs entry to buyer delivery can be over a week on some occasions as there is no service level guarantee for post expres packages. It is possible the buyer is balking at paying VAT if the parcel was held for pickup, in which case it would eventually get returned to you and the buyer would only be owed the original item price. Fees can get credited upon call in. If you have somehow gotten another scan indicating the item is held in customs, it isn't unusual for general merchandise to get delayed clearance as they have no priority with customs, particularly if they are flagged for value assessment.

The other problem you may experience is tracked packet or even USPS e-delcon (both are under the Post Expres program) do not always get a final delivery confirmation scan as it is still somewhat hit or miss as foreign postal services haven't been as consistent with this particular program. Through an unrelated business to this account, we've seen a 10-15% non-scan rate depending on the country (sorry no direct experience with Austria in particular) over several thousand shipments.

rose-dee · ‎11-20-2015

Thanks so much for your valuable input, although I don't know whether this information makes me feel any better about the potential outcome of the situation.

I guess I'll just have to hold my breath and hope the parcel moves along in the next few days.

rose-dee · ‎11-20-2015

@dutchman48 wrote:
Curious question Was this item too large to send light packet?

Yes, it had to go in a medium-sized box, about 800 gm weight. Small Packet Air was, oddly enough, only a dollar or so cheaper than Tracked Packet. I'm thanking myself now for having chosen the slightly more expensive TP.

rose-dee · ‎11-20-2015

@lucitabby wrote:
I don't know if you have already checked it or if it would show any additional information
but try the Austrian Post website.

https://www.post.at/en/track_trace.php?language=en
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks very much for this link, I never know exactly how to find the right link to check foreign postal systems.

This is all it says under my tracking #, not a lot of help:

Type of item: Exprès
Delivery status: item is being processed
Date: 15.11.2015 15:19:06 ; Postcode: CA

momcqueen · ‎11-21-2015

My most recent item to Austria arrived within five business days. it was a lower-value item (about $20 CAD) and the buyer was very excited so he might have been motivated to get to the postal outlet and pay his taxes on import (if any) quickly.

With yours, I expect it is waiting for your buyer to pay whatever amount has been assessed. This is not always as handy to do as it is in Canada, as sometimes people have to travel to a separate government office to remit the monies before the item is released back into the mail stream for them.

May I ask what you put for the declaration of contents? Was it clothing?

momcqueen · ‎11-21-2015

You will find this to be an invaluable link for foreign shipments in future: http://www.upu.int/en/the-upu/member-countries.html

rose-dee · ‎11-21-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:
You will find this to be an invaluable link for foreign shipments in future: http://www.upu.int/en/the-upu/member-countries.html

Thank you 'mj' -- this is what I knew I needed, but could never recall the precise name of it (Universal Postal Union) or where it was on the rare occasion I did need it (I sell primarily to the U.S.). It is now firmly bookmarked.

To answer your other question, this item (sadly) was a OOAK antique corset (not a reproduction). It was not in perfect shape, but few ever are. It was still a collector's item, and the buyer got it at a good price (Best Offer), which should have softened the sting of the VAT that would be payable.

I always mark antique clothing as "used [whatever]" or "vintage [whatever]", i.e. never use the word "antique" which I feel could be an invitation to thievery. The HS code I indicated was the one for vintage/used clothing. I'm just glad I decided at the last minute to pay the extra out of my own pocket for tracked service. If I'd sent it via Small Packet Air, I would have no idea where it was. Also, as with any rare or expensive items, I always put a copy of the packing slip on the outside of the box, so customs authorities will have access to the paperwork confirming the price paid.

I see on checking the tracking today that nothing has changed. I'm going to give it until the middle of next week, and if the needle hasn't moved on the tracking bar, I'll have to contact the customer to see if the delay is at his end or his custom's office. With all the terrible disruption throughout Europe right now, who knows?

rose-dee · ‎11-21-2015

Uh-oh. My husband just posited the most likely reason for the delay of my poor parcel, which significantly happened to arrive in Austria the day after the Paris attacks.

He suggested that Austrian authorities are probably checking every incoming parcel from overseas of any size, and he's probably right. Not only that, but they're likely also X-raying or scanning larger parcels (such as mine was - an unusually long rectangular box) for nefarious contents. As if that weren't bad enough, in his inimitably helpful way my dear spouse had to add that my item could be loosely construed by someone using a scanner as looking like a suicide vest. OMG.

This isn't too much of a stretch of thought. This beautiful old Edwardian corset has 16 or 18 metal bones of varying lengths, and a metal busk, one half of which has small, round metal knobs on the closures, much like -- oh yes -- ball bearings. OMG. Last week was not the week to be selling such an item to Europe.

I am trying not to let my imagination run wild in seeing the postal authorities calling the security authorities who will call the SWAT team who will either blow up the parcel using robotics, or have a bomb squad tear it apart, ripping the 100+ year old piece of irreplaceable lingerie apart to determine precisely what those metal bones are (they are within fabric casings, so are not visible to the eye).

I'm going to wait until Tuesday, then if the tracking is still stuck, contact the buyer just to keep in touch and let them know that I can see there is a delay. No doubt Europeans will be well aware that heightened security will mean more checking of foreign parcels.

Oh. Oh. Oh my.

momcqueen · ‎11-21-2015

Yes, I too am anxious about the parcels I am sending to France but when I looked to the Canada Post website for advice as to whether to expect delays, I saw nothing. The people at my counter could offer no insight, either.

With a corset, it's hard to know what they might be thinking: even whalebone might come to mind when they're dealing with an item like that and I'm guessing whalebone might be a prohibited or controlled item in certain places.

rose-dee · ‎11-21-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:

With a corset, it's hard to know what they might be thinking: even whalebone might come to mind when they're dealing with an item like that and I'm guessing whalebone might be a prohibited or controlled item in certain places.

Whalebone was no longer used in corsets by the time this one was made (ca. 1910-14), and a scan would clearly show the steel content. I don't think whalebone would be prohibited if it's already part of an antique garment.

In any case this particular corset would set off any metal detector -- there's a lot of metal in it, and it was sort of rolled up inside the box, which would make the scanner's-eye view more dense.

I'm hoping I have an understanding customer who will be patient a few more days, otherwise I'll end up having to refund the equivalent of nearly $300 Cdn -- not something I'd be pleased about at this time of year, especially if the item takes a long time to get back to me or is damaged or destroyed.

Sadly, I didn't choose to buy additional insurance above the $100 included with TP. That's what I get for being an optimist.

momcqueen · ‎11-21-2015

You would have been out of luck with purchasing additional insurance on Tracked Packet as it's not offered by Canada Post; you go to a third-party like u-pic. (You would have needed to upgrade to Xpresspost. Tracked Packet is to be used for low-value items.) It was smart that you have tracking, don't worry. I'm assuming that if xrays show your package to be interesting enough to be opened, the Customs people will immediately recognize it for antique lingerie. I mean, what else could it possibly be?

With delays at customs, I don't think you can be held accountable by anyone for delivery times as long as you had the package given an acceptance scan by your postie within your stated handling time. That's where the acceptance scan becomes so critical: the buyer can't ding you for late delivery on feedback if ebay can see your tracked package was scanned within the stated time. You would be off the hook.

Now, it is an entirely different matter if Austrian Customs goes nuts on your corset. I still don't have a firm idea how (or if) a seller is held accountable by ebay/paypal if incoming customs decide to ruin an order in progress while checking into it as has happened recently with the seller whose precious limited-edition statue to Malta was drilled into.

Canada Post might have a better idea of the rules and regulations but that too is out of their actual hands. Customs officers are a law literally unto themselves. I had a veteran RCMP member once tell me that even he got a little freaked out when crossing borders because Customs officers can do anything at anytime to anyone with no probable cause, just the will to do so.

Oh, and when you check for status updates on the tracking, go directly to Austria Post. There is too long a delay (up to 48 hours) with Canada Post receiving incoming information from outside postal carriers. It might be delivered yesterday and you wouldn't know even tomorrow if you check Canada Post for that information.

momcqueen · ‎11-21-2015

(Further to above: I meant 'precious' in the literal sense, not a sarcastic one.)

reallynicestamps · ‎11-21-2015

Uh-oh. My husband just posited the most likely reason for the delay of my poor parcel, which significantly happened to arrive in Austria the day after the Paris attacks.

Aaaaak!

zee-chan · ‎11-21-2015

Would it be a bad idea to sell to European countries in general at this time of the year (holiday season and the recent Paris attack)? I mailed something from here to Germany a week before the Paris attack and it arrived within 6 days (4 business days) with small packet air.

I have a few sales from UK this week. One of the buyer made a best offer (and it's a generous offer as she's buying multiple items) so I asked her about possibly waiting 4-6 weeks for her items. She messaged back saying she doesn't mind waiting as long as it gets there (I'm sure it will). So I accepted her best offers and shipped. That one should be fine.

The second sale is from a buyer who gave almost all positive feedback (2 neutrals out of 100 sales), so I just processed the sale and then messaged the buyer saying that it could experience delays due to the holiday season / recent events in Europe. I don't anticipate issue with this one.

Now the third sale is from a buyer who left 2 negatives and 1 neutral out of 15 sales. Negatives for "not as described" and neutral for "slow shipment". I messaged the buyer asking if she'd be fine with the book taking 4-6 weeks to arrive, and if not I'll just refund her. Will see how this one goes. To be honest I'd rather cancel this one since the buyer sounds like a pain lol and the sale is only $16.

And before someone said 4-6 weeks sound too slow, these are all for my items that ship from Japan and they have been taking 3-5 weeks to get to UK for my Sept and Oct sales. One of the shipment is to my UK friend as well who told me it took 28 days for the book I sent her from Japan to arrive.

momcqueen · ‎11-21-2015

Anyone who does international business should have a look at my post from earlier today about service disruptions. I found some links to check. They might be useful https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/CANADA-POST-ANNOUNCEMENTS-AND-SERVICE-DISRUPTIONS/td-p/3...

It's not as much a discussion as it is a thread with some links to delivery services and other post offices of the world to see what they are posting in terms of delays and for what reason.

If nothing else, it might prove helpful if a buyer starts to question the reason delivery is taking the time that it is.

rose-dee · ‎11-22-2015

@mjwl2006 wrote:
You would have been out of luck with purchasing additional insurance on Tracked Packet as it's not offered by Canada Post; you go to a third-party like u-pic. (You would have needed to upgrade to Xpresspost. Tracked Packet is to be used for low-value items.) It was smart that you have tracking, don't worry.

Hi 'mj' -- yes, I do realize TP has no additional insurance. What I didn't make clear was that I often purchase additional insurance from Auctiva, with whom I've dealt for many years. They have decent 3rd party rates and fairly generous terms, as well as permitting a seller to buy the insurance within 72 hours of having shipped a parcel, which is a nice touch for the forgetful or über-busy. I took a chance this time to not pay the extra $2 or $3 -- I'm kicking myself now. But then who knew all Europe was going to be in turmoil a few days later?

I'm assuming that if xrays show your package to be interesting enough to be opened, the Customs people will immediately recognize it for antique lingerie. I mean, what else could it possibly be?

Well, thanks to my dear husband's input, I'm now imagining all the things that Austrian authorities might imagine. I mean, since all those metal bones are hidden within double fabric casings, there could be anything concealed in there. I hate to say it, but what better way to smuggle something in than hidden within the casings of an apparently innocuous antique corset. I actually hope they have sniffer dogs that will pick up nothing.

With delays at customs, I don't think you can be held accountable by anyone for delivery times as long as you had the package given an acceptance scan by your postie within your stated handling time. That's where the acceptance scan becomes so critical: the buyer can't ding you for late delivery on feedback if ebay can see your tracked package was scanned within the stated time. You would be off the hook.

That would be true after February 20th, but unfortunately not yet. The "old rules" still apply until then, and the buyer could open a case if they are impatient.

Now, it is an entirely different matter if Austrian Customs goes nuts on your corset. I still don't have a firm idea how (or if) a seller is held accountable by ebay/paypal if incoming customs decide to ruin an order in progress while checking into it as has happened recently with the seller whose precious limited-edition statue to Malta was drilled into.

Yes, I saw those posts about the figurine, but in my particular case I think there would be no question of the buyer being at all responsible. Basically the best I could do under eBay's existing rules would be to refund the buyer in full and hope to collect the (partial) insurance cost. I'm hoping it won't come to that.

Canada Post might have a better idea of the rules and regulations but that too is out of their actual hands. Customs officers are a law literally unto themselves. I had a veteran RCMP member once tell me that even he got a little freaked out when crossing borders because Customs officers can do anything at anytime to anyone with no probable cause, just the will to do so.

Yes, this is exactly why I'm worried. Once a scanner picks up all the metal in that parcel, it's anybody's guess how far authorities would go to confirm there was nothing nefarious hidden within the casings on that corset. With everybody on high alert and on edge in Europe, it's a foreseeable outcome.

Imagine -- a lovely, irreplaceable, antique corset survives over 100 years, then ends up being shredded by a customs officer. It's rather sad, but to put it in perspective, there are a lot of people with far, far more important things to worry about in Europe right now. I really wouldn't blame them for tearing the thing apart to see what's inside. My poor customer who thought they had found the perfect antique piece for their collection...

Oh, and when you check for status updates on the tracking, go directly to Austria Post. There is too long a delay (up to 48 hours) with Canada Post receiving incoming information from outside postal carriers. It might be delivered yesterday and you wouldn't know even tomorrow if you check Canada Post for that information.

Yes, I've been checking Austrian Post twice a day. Nothing has changed, although I doubt the status would be updated over the weekend.

I'm going to give this whole thing one more day, and then contact the buyer on Tuesday. Fortunately I'm still fairly fluent in German, so I may even telephone. I expect any European buyer would understand the highly tense and unusual circumstances around this.

And yes, to respond to some of the other posts here, I might even be tempted to take "Europe" completely off my ship-to locations right now (i.e. add to exclusions temporarily). If you don't sell much to Europe anyway, why have to deal with this? From what I've read on the boards over the past couple of years, Germany and France in particular have always been a bit problematic shipping-wise. I'm sure it will be even worse now.