MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

Very strange situation I am facing today.... on Sept. 30, a buyer sent an offer for one of my items. I accepted it the following day. After 4 days, I sent a friendly reminder to the buyer as I usually do, but no response. On day 5, I opened an UID. Today, I received the payment and an apology message from the buyer saying he was caught up in work. Some time later in the day, I get a message from eBay saying they cancelled my listing and the buyer is No longer a Registered user.

 

What should I do? Do I ship the item? Or do I just refund the buyer?

 

What is very strange is that eBay deleted my listing completely, so I cannot even relist it! Why would they do that?? In their message, EBAY wrote the following (NOT buyer - I put this in bold and underlined, because I don't want my message to be modified by moderator):

 

In these types of situations, we'll credit the final value fee for removed listings won by this buyer, and also the insertion fee if it was a single-quantity listing.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).
We've also made it easy to relist your item if it was removed. Although the item is no longer available in search listings, you will find it in the Sold section of My eBay.

 

 

 

Which one is it? Will eBay credit the FVF or not? I look into my account and they did not even credit it!

 

Also, it would be completely impossible to relist, because EBAY deleted the listing! Fortunately, this was already a relist so I hope to be able to relist it again from the original item or at least try "Sell similar". I hope I won't have to do it from scratch again... there were so many pictures that I lost because my computer crashed since then.

 

Anyway, I'll await your advice 😉

Message 1 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

It sounds as if it's possible that eBay may have kicked the buyer off the site after you filed the Unpaid Item Dispute, although of course you will not have that information from your end.  If this is the reason for the NARU, presumably the buyer was just one UID away from being turfed out by eBay, and your UID was the final straw.  He may have just managed to pay before the axe fell. 

 

My best suggestion would be to email Raphael (see the Wed. board hour sessions for his email link), copying the information you've provided here, and ask (1) whether you are obliged to refund the non-existent buyer; and (2) whether there is anything else you need to do to at this point, or anything you should do to protect your seller status, if that is even an issue.  

 

My guess would be that you won't be forced to refund, as there is now no way to do so through eBay "officially".  I suppose if you have the buyer's email address you could refund through Paypal if you're feeling generous, but frankly I'd wait to see what Raphael advises before doing even that.  I would also definitely not ship the item until you have some answers from Raphael.  I'm sure he will be able to look into the "background" of the transaction and clarify what steps you should be taking.  However, give him a day or two to get back to you with a response, as he is always over-busy.  

 

This is a very unusual situation, and I think it's better to run it past Raphael directly rather than trying to get advice out of eBay customer service.  

 

Best of luck with this.  Please come back and let us know what the outcome is.  

 

 

 

Message 2 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

and ask (1) whether you are obliged to refund the non-existent buyer;

 

Umm. Providing the payment had cleared, the seller has to either ship or refund. She can't keep the money and the item.

The question is more how to refund.

 

But I agree that lady.stark should not ship; at least not yet. In any case, the buyer can't ding her for slow shipping.

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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item


@femmefan1946 wrote:

and ask (1) whether you are obliged to refund the non-existent buyer;

 

Umm. Providing the payment had cleared, the seller has to either ship or refund. She can't keep the money and the item.

The question is more how to refund.

 

But I agree that lady.stark should not ship; at least not yet. In any case, the buyer can't ding her for slow shipping.


I'm not completely certain the OP would be obliged to ship in a case where eBay had kicked the buyer off the site for bad behaviour, although it's probably the right thing to do from a moral perspective, since the OP has the money. 

 

Still, if I were the OP, I'd sit tight and do nothing until she has some advice from Raphael.  

 

As I said, this is a very bizarre situation -- always some new wrinkle on eBay!  It will be interesting to find out what directions 'ladystark' is given by eBay on this. 

Message 4 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

I believe all you have to do to refund is go into Paypal, find the payment and hit the refund button. No different than refunding a non Ebay payment.

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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

I followed your advice and wrote to Raphael to see how I should proceed. Of course, if he says not to ship, I will refund the buyer. I would feel very bad to keep the money, not my style at all.

 

I won't ship or refund until I hear from Raphael though. If I refund, I just hope I can get my fees back... there is no way now to ask for a cancellation since the listing has been deleted completely from eBay and the dispute is not available either to click on "get my fees back and close the case". This is not just a $5 item, but a $200 item. The fees are quite higher 😉

Message 6 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

I wonder if you can just carry through with the sale, since you do have the buyer's e-mail (assuming it's same as his Paypal). I'd just e-mail the buyer to talk about it, send it tracked if affordable, if eBay won't refund your FVF. I mean, the buyer DID pay, but eBay NARU'ed him before you could do anything else... neither of you would have buyer / seller protection in this case so I guess it's your call.

Message 7 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item


@zee-chan wrote:

I wonder if you can just carry through with the sale, since you do have the buyer's e-mail (assuming it's same as his Paypal). I'd just e-mail the buyer to talk about it, send it tracked if affordable, if eBay won't refund your FVF. I mean, the buyer DID pay, but eBay NARU'ed him before you could do anything else... neither of you would have buyer / seller protection in this case so I guess it's your call.


I'm sorry, but I have to disagree entirely.  I would not have any further contact with the buyer at this point, nor attempt to take any steps to complete the transaction.  Doing so could land the OP in a quagmire.  Since the OP doesn't know the reason for the NARU, it could well have been something quite serious, i.e. a known scammer.   

 

This is doubly true since this is a $200 item.  There is nothing to be gained at this point from the OP communicating with the buyer or shipping the item.  I would still advise waiting for Raphael's input, since he will be able to see the actual reason for the NARU.  After all, if it took the buyer 5 days to get around to paying in the first place, the OP is under no obligation to hurry at her end now that the buyer is off the site. 

 

I'm confident that if the buyer was kicked off by eBay, the OP will be able to get Raphael to refund her FVFs.  Likely the whole reason the listing was taken down was to prevent the buyer from causing any further trouble on that transaction.  

Message 8 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

I did write to the buyer around noon today asking if he could explain why eBay cancelled the listing entirely and his account. I did not write in those words, but something similar. He replied to me this afternoon saying he has no clue why his account was suspended. He bought a few things without problem, but when he tried to list an item, his account was cancelled. He thinks that maybe he has a past due balance from a long time ago.

 

He seems sincere in his reply. I guess I am still protected by PayPal if something goes wrong, but... I don't know what to do. At least, he cannot leave negative or damaging feedback... if only Raphael would respond to my message... he hasn't yet.

Message 9 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

 

<< Providing the payment had cleared, the seller has to either ship or refund. She can't keep the money and the item.>>

 

Absolutely!  Yes!  I am surprised more people have not come forward to point this out.  As evidenced in this link

pertaining to feedback and related interactions with erstwhile ebay users (NARUs), "If a bidder has become

"no longer a registered user" since winning your auction, don't send them the item until payment has cleared."

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/feedback/questions/feedback-unregistered.html

 

Until the payment has cleared.  Cleared payment = send the item.  No mention about opportunistically filching

a couple hundred $  from buyers who are simply no longer in a position to harm a seller's DSRs.  

Oh, imagine the world if we were only decent toward those we liked.

 

The link further explains that there may be any number of reasons for his being booted, not just too many Unpaid Items

whereby restrictions and blockings seemed to have no ameliorating effect, "For example, a member whose correct contact

information is no longer on file with us may have their registration suspended until the new contact information is entered."

 

If the buyer prefers to be refunded, - that's easy.  A seller just uses the Refund Link from the seller's paypal account.

Haha, better than waiting for that credit card chargeback. Smiley LOL

 

 

Message 10 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

 

<<...I will refund the buyer. ...   to keep the money, not my style at all>>

 

That's reassuring.  Smiley Very Happy

If the buyer wants a refund that would be easy.  But if you have emailed him and he still wants the item, by all means

wait for approval, but if you have the money for certain,  according to the ebay pages you may as well send it.

He will still have paypal buyer protection and if he used a credit card, - whatever buyer protection is offered by

his card company.

 

If ebay has not refunded your final value fees, that is likely because you were paid for the item.  The buyer's

persona non grata status makes no difference to the ebay accountants tallying up what you owe them from sales.

If a buyer does not pay, the seller can open and shut a case and quickly get fees back:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/feedback/questions/feedback-unregistered.html

 

Also, if it is a 'one of a kind' item, and not something in a multi-listing (umpteen of exactly the same thing), that might

explain why you cannot relist, -- the buyer bought it, so it is gone, and when ebay closed him off, they took all his

purchases with him.

Well, . . .  it makes sense to me, anyway.  Ebay says, "If you qualify for a final value fee credit, we apply the credit

to your account", and I'm guessing a sold item that leaves you money in the bank does not qualify.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/credits.html

 

 

When ebay tells people that, "If we charge you a fee and then later return it (for example, if your buyer doesn't pay

for an item), we will apply it to your account",  this suggests that you will not get your fee returned because your buyer

did pay.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/refunds.htm

 

There may be other reasons for a listing being removed, but I doubt any of those would be it:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/questions/listing-ended.html#how

 

Still, they do say, "Even if you think your listing shouldn't have been removed, don't relist it without first finding out

why it was removed", - and you've done that, just waiting for your answer.

 

 

 

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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

I would still hold off and wait for Raphael's direct advice.  

 

I say this because Raphael will know the specific reason why the buyer was NARU'ed, which may make the difference between a decision to refund or to ship the item.  

 

For example, why ship an item to a buyer who is NARU who might subsequently decide to file a claim through Paypal?  It would be wiser to refund in such an instance.  On the other hand, if the buyer was kicked off eBay merely for a minor seller infraction, then the OP would likely be safe to ship the item.  I think having this information before acting is essential in these circumstances -- why would the OP want to risk getting a defect over such a bizarre situation?  

 

Unfortunately it's a long weekend, so the OP may have to be patient until Tuesday or Wednesday next week.  However, a shipping delay isn't an issue, since the buyer is no longer a registered user in any event.  

 

It may be that there is a perfectly innocuous reason for the suspension, but it's also possible there are more serious issues involved.  And I wouldn't necessarily rely entirely on the eBay.ca help/info pages.  As we've often discovered, many of them can be badly out of date. 

Message 12 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item


@dmil8030 wrote:

 

Also, if it is a 'one of a kind' item, and not something in a multi-listing (umpteen of exactly the same thing), that might explain why you cannot relist, -- the buyer bought it, so it is gone, and when ebay closed him off, they took all hispurchases with him.

 


That is what doesn't make ANY sense to me! Many of the buyers I had are now NARU and my listings did not disappear with them. Although, they were NARU after leaving feedback. Don't know if that fact is the explaination....

Message 13 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item


@rose-dee wrote:

I say this because Raphael will know the specific reason why the buyer was NARU'ed, which may make the difference between a decision to refund or to ship the item.  


 

Even if Raphael replies, I don't know if he will be able to give me the reason why the buyer was removed. I once asked him a similar question and he said he could not give me that kind of information.... buyer privacy he said.

 

I guess I don't have a choice but to wait...

Message 14 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item


@lady.stark wrote:

@rose-dee wrote:

I say this because Raphael will know the specific reason why the buyer was NARU'ed, which may make the difference between a decision to refund or to ship the item.   


Even if Raphael replies, I don't know if he will be able to give me the reason why the buyer was removed. I once asked him a similar question and he said he could not give me that kind of information.... buyer privacy he said.

 

I guess I don't have a choice but to wait...


Hi again -- sorry, I think I may have expressed myself poorly.  Raphael won't disclose the reason to you, but he will know it (or at least be able to look it up), which will make all the difference in the advice he gives you.  

 

Again, I think it's wisest to wait until you get a reply from him.  You have nothing to lose in terms of delay at this point, since the buyer can't do anything now to affect your seller status.  And Raphael will ensure you get your FVFs back if you're entitled to them (which you should be).  

 

Presumably the reason the listing was taken down was to prevent the buyer from taking any further steps in the transaction, but this is a such a rare and unusual scenario -- i.e. having the buyer actually make payment just before being NARU'ed -- that getting advice from Raphael before moving forward is the best option.  

 

If you don't hear from him directly by this coming Wednesday, then I'd suggest you jump in at the weekly Board Hour and post your issue there.  He is now leaving the session open for about 24 hours each time, so he usually has a chance to answer every query, even though it's no longer a "live" chat format.  

Message 15 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

Although the item is no longer available in search listings, you will find it in the Sold section of My eBay.

 

 

It isn't available to see it in your sold section either?

 

I doubt that you would receive fvf on it until the buyer has been refunded.

 

If you haven't heard back from Raphael yet you might want to phone ebay and ask them what your options are.  I have

had some good advice from U.S. cs.

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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Although the item is no longer available in search listings, you will find it in the Sold section of My eBay.

 

 

It isn't available to see it in your sold section either?



Nope. It has completely vanished.

 

I guess I could phone eBay, but I will need a phone number with French service. My English is quite good in writing, but not so much when I speak 😉

Message 17 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

That's frustrating that they would totally remove it like that.

 

Your written English is excellent.  I would have never guessed that French is your first language.

Message 18 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

Thank you for the compliment 'pjcdn2005' 😉

 

Raphael responded to my message Tuesday. On one hand, he said that yes, an account can be suspended for unpaid seller fees. On the other hand, he told me that eBay can cancel a transaction if the member shows signs of a spoofed or fraudulent account. He did not say the specific reason why the buyer's account was cancelled (he cannot do that), but he advised to proceed with caution.

So even after reading his message, I really, really didn't know what to do... and still don't. The buyer seems genuine in his responses. He gave me his phone number even if I did not try it.... long distance call and spoken language. So he could be telling the truth about his unpaid seller fees being the reason of his suspension. He suggested to refund him if I am not comfortable, even if he would prefer to receive his item. I'm still very confused on what to do....

Message 19 of 22
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MC098 Suspicious buyer for item

 

Hello 'lady.stark',

Well, on the bright side at least you heard from someone 'official'.  And he did not tell you it is okay to

go ahead and keep the money. Smiley Wink 

 

Clearly you are very uncomfortable with this, and by now if it were me my chief concern is whether or not

I would be covered by 'seller protection'.  According to this link you need to ship within 7 days:

http://pages.ebay.ca/paypal/seller/protection.html

 

Ultimately you have to make your own decision.  Sure, the buyer cannot harm your selling record but if a

seller has the money in her account she has to ship or refund.  

You must choose.

 

Maybe you would sleep better if you just refunded and got your fees back.  It sounds as if your buyer is a

straight-up guy and there would be no problems.  But scammers always sound like that.  Sadly. 

 

You may have to ask yourself if you are willing to gamble it.  Are you willing to risk $200?  Which is more

important?  If your buyer suggested you refund if you are not comfortable, that sounds very reasonable to me,

but it's not my $200.

 

Stay within your own comfort zone.  What do your instincts tell you?  You have to make your own decision 

because you will have to live with the results.

 

And since nothing much happens in the mail until Monday anyway, why not sleep on it a night or two?

But one way or another, you have to decide, -- and fairly quickly.

 

 

I wish you a peaceable outcome. Smiley Happy

 

 

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