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momcqueen · ‎07-07-2016

Good news overnight on the looming postal lockout/strike front. To paraphrase The Godfather, the federal government has made an offer they can't refuse.

https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/blogs/announcements/details.page?article=2016/07/06/canada_post_pre...

Canada Post Prepared to Submit to Binding Arbitration

Federal Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour, MaryAnn Mihychuk, has asked both Canada Post and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW-Urban and CUPW-RSMC) to submit to binding arbitration to resolve the current impasse at negotiations.

The Canada Post Corporation has already agreed. "It is our hope that CUPW will consider submitting to binding arbitration to end the uncertainty. Canada Post is extending the current 72-hour notice period to Monday at 12:01 am to provide time for the union to consider this option."

It would be suicide for the unions to refuse, although I do expect they will make a show of doing so and wait until the final moments to concede. Binding arbitration is the best we can hope for at this point.

fort2b · ‎07-10-2016

@rose-dee wrote:
@fort2b wrote:
They will never, ever, ever get the defined benefit pension plan for future employees. Ever. It would bankrupt CP. Defined benefit plans were fine when we had a dynamic growing economy, with high investment returns possible. Defined plans depend on high yields to grow sufficiently to provide the required income for retirees. If the growth isn't there, then they employer has to make up the shortfall.

And these days, the shortfalls are giant in defined benefit plans . In this modern economy, low growth is the norm and yields are practically zero and in fact turning negative around the globe. So an employer is on the hook for the entire shortfall and this is untenable.
I don't know that this is true everywhere. My fortunate spouse's pension is a defined one, and we've had no warnings about problems with the plan. In fact, if the administrators can be believed, it's doing well. Is it a matter of a smaller number of working contributors at Canada Post? Or bad design? Why is it that, by contrast, CPP (Canada Pension Plan) reportedly seems to be in reasonably good shape into the future?

Surely a pension could be designed that meets the basic needs of future employees of CP without breaking the bank? Perhaps both parties are at fault for not finding a workable compromise.

All the plane are different in terms of employee contributions and payout at retirement and who manages them. CUPW plan could have a very generous payout (likely) requiring a higher rate of return. Without knowing the details of the two plans its impossible to say. But most companies are moving away from defined benefit plans.....including CP....the other two unions at CP have agreed to defined contribution plans......CUPW is the sole holdout.

pierrelebel · ‎07-10-2016

"Surely a pension could be designed that meets the basic needs of future employees of CP without breaking the bank?"

Not simple. This is one of the most challenging problems facing organized labour and big businesses in both Canada and the USA. In a world of relatively low interest rates, yes it would "break the bank" to offer defined benefits (which generally imply a return of 5% to 8% on contributions over the long term),

For several years most large employers have switched to defined contributions where the same amount of money is given by the employer to the pension plan but the eventual benefits will be determined by how the fund earns over time (without guarantees from the employer).

Many employers have agreed to continue "defined benefits" for current employees and switch to "defined contributions" for future employees. With a bit of research one can find a lot of information on the subject.

One could start here: http://hoopp.com/Learning-Resources/Defined-Benefit-Plan/Comparing-Retirement-Options/

and here: http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/why-shifting-from-defined-benefit-to-defined-contributi...

momcqueen · ‎07-10-2016

From the National Post two hours ago: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-post-unions-try-one-last-time-to-avoid-monday-shutdo...

Canada Post, Unions try one last time to avoid Monday shutdown

“Progress is being made” in negotiations between workers and Canada Post, Labor Minister MaryAnn Mihychuk said in a release Sunday. Mihychuk said she encouraged the parties to continue discussions beyond tomorrow’s 12:01 a.m. deadline, when workers will be locked out, the Canadian Association of Postal Workers said in a release. This marks the first labor dispute at the company since 2011, when the federal government passed legislation requiring employees to go back to work.

Slightly different perspective but no really new information beyond what we already learned this afternoon.

momcqueen · ‎07-10-2016

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-post-union-labour-lock-out-mail-1.3672570

Canada Post poised for Monday lockout as negotiations with union stall

A Canada Post spokesman could not say on Sunday whether the post office will act on its lockout threat.

momcqueen · ‎07-10-2016

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/emailcampaigns/negotiations/negotiations_update_2016_jul10_en.html

Negotiations Update

Postal service will not be interrupted while talks continue

Canada Post has withdrawn its 72-hour notice, which was to take effect Monday, July 11. As a result, there will be no lockout. We also expect the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW) to honour what it has said publicly on many occasions – that they wish to negotiate and have no plans to issue a strike notice.

We therefore expect mail service to continue without interruption, and we feel you can ship with us with confidence. In the event of a strike or lockout, either party has to issue a 72-hour notice and should this occur we would advise you immediately. At that time, we would work with customers to keep them informed and to prevent product from being trapped in the postal system.

Our decision to withdraw our 72-hour notice followed a statement issued by the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour, MaryAnn Mihychuk, for both Canada Post and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers to continue their discussions beyond the notice period. The parties now have the opportunity to focus on serious negotiations.

As we focus on that, our thousands of employees will focus on serving you, our customers.

Sincerely,

Serge Pitre
Vice-president, Sales
Canada Post Corporation

dutchman48 · ‎07-10-2016

But could still be interrupted at any time if a contract is not reached!

So we are in the same boat we were before, going nowhere without a paddle.

Sentence 2, paragraph 2

momcqueen · ‎07-10-2016

@dutchman48 wrote:
But could still be interrupted at any time if a contract is not reached!

So we are in the same boat we were before, going nowhere without a paddle.

Sentence 2, paragraph 2

I'll take that 'if' over a 'will' any time.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-10-2016

They all have cherry jobs that are every courier worker's dream. They have good pay, loads of vacation time, plenty of sick days and a dream pension.

Which is the point of solidarity

Everyone benefits when the standards are raised.

The courier companies know that they are training workers who would happily move to Canada Post if they have a chance, unless the workers are treated 'right'.

It's a cliche that the most expensive part of having employees is training them.

I said earlier that it is not the $10.15 an hour minimum wage worker that is our customer.

It is the $20-$30 dollar an hour guy who has disposable income.

The problem will low cost goods is that they are produced by low cost labour.

You can't sell anything to someone with no money to buy.

When we look at our trade with China, it is possibly less important that we are buying over $40 billion more than we are selling, than that what we are selling is raw materials and what we are buying is finished goods.

Which group produces the most well paid jobs for Canadians?

Which is also why we should be taking our time on TPP and pushing hard for CETA. Better to sell into a market where our products and theirs are similarly produced and priced.

dutchman48 · ‎07-10-2016

But nothing has changed since before the 72 hour notice, that's what they were doing then and nothing concrete, hence the notice. All that has happened is we backed the clock up a few days but the overall picture is not different.

momcqueen · ‎07-10-2016

The overall picture has not changed but the immediate threat of everything being halted effective 12:01 am Monday EST is passed. For now. They can continue 'negotiating' until the cows come home, for all I care, as long as the mail keeps moving. Mooooving.

dutchman48 · ‎07-10-2016

But the door is still open for a strike or lockout which was the case last week.

I personally don't rejoice over this continued fiasco and more stall tactics.

dutchman48 · ‎07-10-2016

Big question is, is everyone going to reopen their stores with business as usual as a result of the wishy washy CP statement which really says nothing new?

cumos55 · ‎07-10-2016

Let us take it...

One Day at a Time

momcqueen · ‎07-10-2016

@dutchman48 wrote:
Big question is, is everyone going to reopen their stores with business as usual as a result of the wishy washy CP statement which really says nothing new?

Well, I never closed so this means that I will continue to count days of Delivery Standard to ensure anything I dispatch via Canada Post can clear Customs (internationally) or be delivered within Canada from where I am within 72 hours or three business days.

pierrelebel · ‎07-10-2016

" is everyone going to reopen their stores with business as usual "

No.

I will wait until we have a firm conclusion, either way.

fort2b · ‎07-10-2016

I take this as a pretty big positive. For CP to withdraw their notice must mean there is real hope of some type of settlement.....perhaps even CUPW has indicated they'd be open to binding arbitration, who knows.

The withdrawal of the 72 hour notice means a new one has to be issued before a lockout.....so that's some breathing room, in my books. They are also making it clear they will be very communicative before any lockout, They want to build customer confidence and aren't going to jeopardize it with surprise actions.

Something has clearly been going on behind the scenes for all this sudden progress to be made. Either Justin called each of them and talked some turkey, or the CUPW workers have been putting heat on Palecek or something, but things have clearly progressed.

I have a hunch the worst is over.

cumos55 · ‎07-10-2016

Business as usual... No

Waiting as usual... Yes......Wait and See...

.

Going full speed on preparing listings.... and rethinking what must be done.... when everything is back to "normal"

If there ever is something such as normal....

cumos55 · ‎07-11-2016

NO.... Binding Arbitration

No guarantee anything will get resolved......

rose-dee · ‎07-11-2016

@cumos55 wrote:
NO.... Binding Arbitration

No guarantee anything will get resolved......

You are right of course, and this is no resolution.

But in the meantime I've had customers banging on my store's door (figuratively speaking) wanting to buy particular items. So I'll open for now. The way I look at this is that by opening today, I may get another week or so of business before things at Canada Post come to a head again.

They will probably talk for 2 or 3 days at least, then if the 72-hour notice is issued by CP, that will get us through to the weekend, and we'll see what happens the following week.

It isn't an ideal way to conduct business, but I can't afford to be standing by waiting if there is service available, even if temporarily. I'll shut down again if CP issues another lockout notice.

snoopwiz · ‎07-11-2016

Chose not to close. Already had an alternative for my U.S. and International packages. Accepted Canadian orders (just a few, as expected), gave buyers the option of waiting, risking, or refunding. All chose waiting. Today, the waiting is over. For now. And the beat goes on.