Pay Pal Fees Question

[lukey9]

Is a seller allowed to charge his PP fees on an Auction. I have a Seller in Germany that gave me a shipping cost plus 4 % PP fees. This is the first time this has happened and I'm not sure if it is allowed or not.

[mr.elmwood]

That is a policy violation.

[pierrelebel]

eBay.ca and eBay.com do not allow sellers to pass on the fees.

However, the rules are different in Europe

The 4.0% fee is about right.  The cross border fee charged by PayPal from Germany is 3.9% plus a flat fee of €0.35 (about Cdn$ 0.55) for each transaction when charged in euro.

Use this calculator for international fees:  http://paypalfeecalculator.paymentprocessing.cc/

[rose-dee]

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@mr.elmwood wrote:

That is a policy violation.

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I would think so too, and it certainly is on eBay.ca and eBay.com, but European eBay sites do have rules that differ.  I've noticed that a lot of sellers there -- especially in France and Germany -- seem to get away with things we wouldn't dare do. 

I suppose the OP could call eBay CS here to ask, but usually they aren't much more informed than we are...

[anguscoinshop]

Yep its not OK if you use PP or ebay as excuse to charge extra. OMG you wouldn't want those two babies to start crying :).

I would use Depth retirement charge(like Ontario Hydro) or my own CESF (Consumer Experience Service Fund)

Any other ideas ?

[pierrelebel]

"seem to get away with things we wouldn't dare do"

Nothing to do with "getting away" with anything. 

They respect the rules that exist in their marketplace.

[lukey9]

Thanks for all the replies it is appreciated. I did not think you could charge the PP or every body would be doing it. The seller has 4 unique items I am interested in so I'll wait till they are over before I bring this up if I get them. 

[femmefan1946]

You could also post the question on the German Boards.

If you can't write German, post in English and add a googletranslate version of your question in German.

Be very careful of your grammar and spelling before you use the translator. GIGO

[lukey9]

I speak enough German to get by but I e-mailed a Seller that I buy allot from and he  speaks English so he is going to check it out for me and saves me using my poor German.

[pierrelebel]

" I did not think you could charge the PP or every body would be doing it"

As stated earlier, this is not allowed on eBay.ca and eBay.com and that rule is enforced by eBay.

In Europe, the rules are not enforced the same way.  More so in Germany which is still a "cash" economy - merchants prefer to get paid in cash instead of credit cards (which cost the merchants 2% to 4% to process).

[zee-chan]

I think the question should be: is the item still worth your money with the 4% added? If it is worth it, I would just go ahead and buy the item instead of picking a fight with the seller. 

I buy often from Japan Yahoo Auction with a forwarding service. I can read the sellers' rules and communicate without problem. You'd see a lot of "rules" that are frown upon in North America eBay but very common on Japan Yahoo Auction. Do I go pick a fight with those sellers? Nope. If I found what I wanted and the total price (item + shipping + whatever seller add-on fees) is reasonable, I pay and thank the seller for selling to me. It's also a lot more common in Japan Yahoo Auction to pay by bank transfer ("cash" economy). Even credit card is not as common. PayPal is almost non-existence. 

Heck, even when I went to Japan to visit my friend, cash is still the most common form of transaction in most stores. A lot of places don't take credit card at all, and can be frown upon because the culture there is... "Oh, you have to pay with credit card because you can't afford to pay with cash right now?" when you are buying a small amount.

[zee-chan]

Just to add to the above...

I had a Japan Yahoo Auction seller who charged me Paypal fee on top of the item + shipping price. The add-on fees is acceptable practice on Yahoo Auction Japan. He clearly told me that he will be charging me that fee when I messaged him about the item. Do I have a problem with it? No. This seller was willing to ship directly to me with the shipping method I requested, so I'm more than happy to pay an extra couple dollars to cover his Paypal fee. It's actually a lot of extra work for him to accept my Paypal payment since he gets very little international sales. As mentioned above "bank transfer" is the more common form of payment there. It's actually quite rare to find a seller there willing to spend so much time communicating with a foreigner. 

It's a matter of whether or not the TOTAL price is worth the item. You will find that 99% of the sellers there do NOT ship internationally (and some won't even ship to forwarding companies) so as an "outsider" you definitely have to play by their rules, or they simply would block you from buying. Sellers on Yahoo Auction Japan are also allowed to cancel a sale based on buyer's feedback with no recourse / defect whatsoever... AND the seller can leave a negative to the buyer for cancelled sale because the buyer didn't follow the seller's rules! Imagine that happening on eBay  Some of them even have rules like "if you're a new buyer / has a lot of negatives, I'll cancel your bid unless you contact me first". 

Very different from eBay eh? Just wanted to show you all some different buying perspectives outside North America. 

[lukey9]

There are 4 Auctions that I want so I will probably buy them even with the 4 % on top. I checked with another Seller in Germany and they are not allowed to add the PP fees to the item the same as here. But if you look at German E-Bay you will see more Swastika on items and it is banned on E-Bay and the same in Germany  . On .ca and com. they are taken off very quick.

[rose-dee]

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@lukey9 wrote:

But if you look at German E-Bay you will see more Swastika on items and it is banned on E-Bay and the same in Germany  . On .ca and com. they are taken off very quick.

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Yes, you're right, and that is what I meant by my post above, regarding European eBay sellers getting away with things any self-respecting seller wouldn't risk attempting here.  

I've had a lot of experience buying from European eBay sellers and have spent a lot of time looking at listings there, particularly on the French and German eBay sites.  It always seemed to me that there was a great deal less "policing" of rule violation than there is on eBay.ca and .com.  Perhaps they just don't have the budget to do such comprehensive monitoring of listings and seller practices.  

Frankly, I think what it boils down to with a foreign eBay site is that if you really want the item, you'll pay what the seller is asking, even if it is strictly speaking against policy. 

[dutchman48]

It is also a very common practice on Delcampe to add fees on after the sale

[lukey9]

Well I bought my 4 Auctions today all at a good price plus I bought 3 more and I was waiting for the Invoice to see if he was going to add the PP fees and when I received it was just the shipping cost he quoted me and nothing added to it. I was not going to bother to tell him any way as I paid very little for the Auctions. It made me feel allot better in the end.

[zee-chan]

I personally don't see what's the problem with adding Paypal fees on top of the sale (aside from it being against eBay rule).

Let's put it this way:

I price my item as

how much I want for it + shipping + selling fees = my listed price, let's say it's $30. 

Another seller price the same item as

how much she wants for it.

Then she adds shipping and selling fees on top of the price when it sells. It still adds up to $30.

What's the difference? I have no problem with the Japan Yahoo Auction sellers I deal with adding Paypal or whatever fees associated with international sales on top of the price of the item, because to me, that means they are not charging their local Japanese buyers the extra fees and are being transparent about their business. 

(*note that I price my items the later way on my own website. Items are listed much cheaper because I don't pay selling fees on my own website)