QUESTION: Canada Post & Registered Mail Int'l

[artofadornment]

Hi!

I'm in Vancouver and I've been asked if I can ship an order (costume jewelry) to the UK via Registered Mail, but I don't want to try it unless I hear some success/failure stories first, which is where you all come in!

Canada Post says RM is for documents only, even though I've received plenty of craft supplies shipments from *outside* Canada via RM over the years just fine. Which makes no sense to me, because how could Canada Post be allowing parcels containing non-documents that fit the size restrictions to be delivered to into the country via RM, yet not allow them to go out? The parcels all had customs declarations on them clearly describing what's inside, so it's not like they were being covertly sneaked through. And if I were to try this myself, I would assume I'd have to use a customs label too.

I'd like to help the guy out if I can, because tracked services are a whopping $42+ for overseas regardless what's in the parcel, and RM for a small flat item it's about $23. If I can save the guy some money I'd sure like to (and get the insurance & tracking that goes with it at the same time). Anyway I hope someone can help!

~ Elaine

[recped]

Canada Post has a number of ridiculous policies that are unique to Canada. They say "we can't do this" yet they can because they do it for incoming mail (things like the 2cm thickness or no "goods" in LetterPost-USA)

In the UK Registered service is cheap and very commonly used, unless this is extremely valuable item I wouldn't use it given the cost. I get asked for this on occasion, I just tell them it's VERY expensive (which it is) and slow (also usually true).

On the few times I have used Registered, since the thickness issue comes into play, I just declare as "printed matter" on the customs form. At the Post Office if they ask I just say "documents" and give them the stare down as in "thinking about calling me a liar???".

[femmefan1946]

I've been asked if I can ship an order (costume jewelry) to the UK via Registered Mail,

No you can't.

Not because eBay or Canada Post or Paypal forbids it, but because your customer probably knows that PP does not accept REGISTERED  as an electronically trackable service.

So.

If you send it, you will see that it has been delivered, but when , and it will be when not if, your demanding customer makes an Item Not Received claim, you will lose, because PP won't accept your proof of delivery.

Then when you go to Canada Post, you will have no case with them, first because they do show it delivered and second because you were not supposed to be shipping goods by Registered Mail.

Not only will you be out the $23 in shipping cost, but also the selling price of the jewellry and your eBay and PP fees.

I am a nasty cynical old woman. But I can live with that.

If your customer cannot afford the cost of shipping, she cannot afford the purchase.

Some sales are not worth having.

[recped]

Not because eBay or Canada Post or Paypal forbids it, but because your customer probably knows that PP does not accept REGISTERED  as an electronically trackable service.

So.

Well the only other way this would likely be sent is by a non-trackable method that would offer no "protection". Why any scammer would suggest using Registered Mail escapes me. Seller Protection is incredibly overrated! Especially when we are talking about a sub $20 item.

As I mentioned before, Registered (aka Signed For) is VERY common in the UK, used all the time. If you look at UK Sellers listing you'll find it offered on many listings. Many buyers simply request it out of habit, they have no idea that it costs more than the item they are buying.

As for PayPal accepting it, that issue relates to a SIGNATURE on delivery not a simple delivery scan.

[pjcdn2005]

It's unlikely that a British buyer has any idea if CPRegistered Mail is "PayPal approved" or not but there isn't any advantage to using international registered mail vs light packet. RM int'l does not have online proof of delivery so can't be used to prove delivery in an inr claim. Why not use light packet? Is the item expensive?

[artofadornment]

Sort of, it's 3 items @ $20 each. I think they want the tracking more than anything. They're a low feedback buyer so who knows, they may be new to online shopping and a bit paranoid. RM offers insurance up to $60 so that's another reason, Small & Light Packet don't give you anything.

[maximus7001]

I believe you have just encountered a slight language barrier. Just give them a quote for tracked packet.

In UK they say things differently than over here. eg. football to them = soccer to us

[artofadornment]

I don't think so. I received another message from my customer and they claim they've had things shipped via RM from the USA before, so I think they're referring to the correct thing. Tracked Packet rates are given in the listing, which I'm guessing is why they asked me to give them a quote for RM (I assume that even in the US it's cheaper than other tracked services?).

Regardless, I'd be happy to do what they request as long as it's actually possible. If chances are good that it's going to get half-way there and then just get sent back to me for incorrect postage/service, I'd rather not bother. That's why I'm asking if anyone has successfully done this before.

[recped · Accepted solution]

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@artofadornment wrote:
I don't think so. I received another message from my customer and they claim they've had things shipped via RM from the USA before, so I think they're referring to the correct thing. Tracked Packet rates are given in the listing, which I'm guessing is why they asked me to give them a quote for RM (I assume that even in the US it's cheaper than other tracked services?).

Regardless, I'd be happy to do what they request as long as it's actually possible. If chances are good that it's going to get half-way there and then just get sent back to me for incorrect postage/service, I'd rather not bother. That's why I'm asking if anyone has successfully done this before.

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In a previous post I mentioned sending "printed matter" via Registered, what I actually sent was either 7" vinyl records or cd's (without cases). I've never done it as a result of a buyer request, rather on my dime at my choice, no option for the buyer. These were unusual situations that required handling far outside the norm.

In the US you can register First Class packages (up to 4lbs) it's cheaper than here but not by a lot and a First Class package to the UK would have some form of Delivery Conformation / basic tracking without being registered. The only point in using RM is for a signature on delivery (which is useless for Seller Protection because it's not "online view able").

I'll tell you one thing, if you declare the package at $60 you're probably going to have issues down the road no matter how you ship.

Just tell them that this is not the USA, Registered isn't available and please send payment or cancel.

[momcqueen]

I realize the question has already been marked as answered but, personally, my threshold for non-trackable goods overseas is about $50 CAD. After that, I utilize Tracked Packet where available for several reasons even if I have to eat the extra cost myself:

#1) UK is very VERY very attentive to assessing taxes on import and I've had one buyer refuse delivery for their item which was then sent back to me and another pretend their item was Not Received because they were angry about the additional taxes;

#2) You have insurance included up to $100 CAD with Tracked Packet. If you need more, you have to go Xpresspost. If it gets lost or stomped, you're covered;

#3) Sometimes items are held at Customs. Might be a day, a week, three weeks if the buyer decides they don't like the sight of the notice card they received in their post telling them import taxes are due on their parcel before it will be delivered. All of these scenarios put you in an uncomfortable position. 

#4) I like to sleep at night and wondering if my jewelry was going to poke holes through an envelope and fall out would keep me awake; 

#5) A buyer isn't allowed (the last time I looked) to request a different method of shipping after their purchase. This is a reportable offence. I don't know if anyone ever reads those Report a Buyer reports but..... 

There is no point, in my opinion, in trying to finagle the postal system on this one. It would most likely backfire. Maybe your registered mail would be rejected and your buyer would be angry and maybe your buyer is just difficult to start. If you care about what is inside that parcel, put tracking on it. Proper tracking. I do agree the buyer is probably just using words she is familiar with to try to reduce her overall costs. People tend to think Canada and the USA postal systems are equal when they really are not. 

For whatever it is worth, that's my two cents on it. 

Good luck as you carry forward. 

[femmefan1946]

Could you very politely ask the buyer what she hopes Registration will do for her?

It could very well be that the buyer wants tracking and is calling it Registration. Or wants insurance.

Would it help you to tell her that neither tracking or registration is any use to her, since she cannot collect on her extra costs if the item goes missing or is delayed? Only you can collect, because you bought the registration service.

To throw another log on the fire, while for most purposes, the value of the item is the last price paid for it, a buyer (not necessarily this buyer) may believe this item to be worth much more than she is paying.

Many eBay sellers actually do buy for resale on eBay. Some actually make money doing so.  And there is a temptation .....

I'm okay with untracked mail up to about $100, although obviously others have lower pricepoints. It was actually the word 'jewelry', costume or not, that set off my radar.

[momcqueen]

Good point. I was thinking in terms of what I sell. Jewelry is another matter entirely. In fact, the third-party insurer that I use doesn't consider 'jewelry' to be insurable. I honestly don't know Canada Post's stand on it. This is a matter that the Original Poster may want to consider regarding overseas shipments. 

[julieo459]

I shipped a postcard to someone in the UK last June via Registered Mail. It took about 10 days to get there. According to the tracking on the Canada Post site it is still in transit. It was embarrassing and the tracking would have been no use to me at all.

[momcqueen]

I had a similar experience with Tracked Packet to UK in June. It still says 'On Hold' as soon as it entered UK and when I tried to talk to Canada Post about it using their Open a Ticket feature trace, it was never acknowledged. I keep meaning to follow-up. The buyer never came back to me and didn't reply to my query as to whether she received it so I can only assume she did and that somehow tracking was simply never updated. It represents one of two Tracked Packet failures on overseas shipments; the other was to Germany a full year before this. They had widespread flooding in that part of the country at the time and I chalked it up to a service interruption that prevented proper scanning. In that case, however, I knew from the buyer that he had his parcel and it was fine. 

[rose-dee]

If I were asked this question by a U.K. buyer for ca. $60 worth of jewellery, I'd let the buyer know that Registered is not available from Canada Post for goods, only for documents, and ask them if they'd like to cancel if that's not workable.  Make sure you also ask them whether they are aware duty may be payable at their end. 

Otherwise, I'd send it Light Packet Air.  I've always found that service very reliable and quick to the U.K.

There is already potential for trouble down the line for this item anyway, i.e. jewellery + duties: -- HMRC are probably going to flag this for customs/duties, and once the buyer gets the unhappy news, they may decide the item is "not as described";

This really depends on your comfort level for risk -- I have a fairly high tolerance, so rarely use tracking for items under about $100.  Your tolerance may be different.  Still, I can't see that with the potential issues about customs on a $60 item that it would be worth it to spend ca. $25 on tracking.  My experience has been that Tracked Packet can be quite slow, which adds another concern.  

By the way, I don't recall seeing anywhere in eBay policy that asking for a different shipping service after a sale is not allowed (as mentioned by 'mjwl').  We sellers adjust shipping services for customers all the time, whether at their request or otherwise.  Perhaps she is thinking of the rule against buyers asking for a different payment option after a sale.  

[recped]

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@julieo459 wrote:

I shipped a postcard to someone in the UK last June via Registered Mail. It took about 10 days to get there. According to the tracking on the Canada Post site it is still in transit. It was embarrassing and the tracking would have been no use to me at all.

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The tracking would be fine (if an INR claim was made through eBay instead of PayPal).

The problems with Registered relates to signatures which were needed for orders over $250 (now $750), while Registered must be signed for on delivery the signatures are generally speaking NOT visible online. You do get the same type of delivery scan that you would get with any other Canada Post service that offers it (Xpresspost).

My own limit for untracked shipping is $1000, obviously I don't ship orders of that value very often but I do send quite a few in the $100 - $300 range. I've had very few INR claims over the years on eBay. The highest value claim was for $50 the rest were all under $10.

I have had a few more valuable transaction where an INR claims was prematurely opened but in all those cases the packages subsequently arrived and the claims were withdrawn.

[recped]

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@rose-dee wrote:

By the way, I don't recall seeing anywhere in eBay policy that asking for a different shipping service after a sale is not allowed (as mentioned by 'mjwl').  We sellers adjust shipping services for customers all the time, whether at their request or otherwise.  Perhaps she is thinking of the rule against buyers asking for a different payment option after a sale.  

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I think it's because anytime a buyer asks about something many eBay sellers translate "ask" to "demand". Buyer are theoretically not allowed to "demand" anything.

The funny thing is that many eBay sellers constantly "demand" things of their buyers.

[momcqueen]

When you go to Report a Buyer, you get this (see below, in bold and italics):

I think this is in place so that buyers can't demand free shipping after the fact or require it to be shipped to a location other than the one listed in the Sales Record. It was flagged to me as a buyer because a seller was annoyed with me once about two years ago. After I received my item, I balked at the realization I'd paid a $14 handling fee on top of the cost of actual postage on an $20 order. The shipping terms were listed as vague like 'Standard' shipping so the seller took the cheapest, slowest option possible to get it to me and then pocketed the remaining $14 USD. All that is besides the point but I don't mind paying $45 in postage on something so long as it's not 75 per cent handling fee. I have expectations for a certain level of service if I'm paying a premium for that service. 

Next, tell us what happened

Buyer made unreasonable demands

Demanded a change to the shipping method or location

Demanded a change to the payment method or timing 

Demanded a partial refund or discount

Demanded additional items or services

Requested that the transaction be completed off of eBay 

Buyer left inappropriate feedback

Buyer abused a buyer protection program

Buyer misused returns

Other problems

I have, in fact, done pretty much anything required to accommodate a buyer's shipping request. It's not a sore point for me. I do have a lower tolerance for item value loss though. If a buyer places an order for $150 CAD with me, that's a pretty big order. I sell toys, new ones. If international calculated shipping has combined low (it's a fine art) and they've only remit enough for Small Packet, I sometimes opt for Tracked Packet on my own dime unless I feel like buying third-party insurance. The one time I tried to make a claim on third-party insurance, it was a gigantic headache that made Canada Post claims look like a walk in the park. So. For whatever it is worth. 

[momcqueen]

I tried to do both a copy and paste with the above post as well as add a screenshot but failed at both.