eBay

jt-libra · ‎06-22-2017

This is what I woke up to this morning:

The e-mail has my full name on it, the tracking number is valid but ............. wha-a-a-a-t?

It was a parcel shipped and delivered to Halifax at the end of May. I paid $14+ for expedited postage.

I checked my PayPal account and they haven't taken any money out. I wouldn't have had enough to cover anyway, so I checked my bank account and they didn't take anything from there.

BUT, seeing as this was a valid e-mail, I clicked on Pay Now, which link took me to a blank web page.

Honestly, I haven't even had my morning coffee. And now I have to start making phone calls.

Has this happened to anyone else?

rose-dee · ‎06-23-2017

@sylviebee wrote:
I'm curious to know how this ended for you.
It sounds like you have a pending bill for about $300?

No, 'jt' mentioned earlier in this thread that Paypal admitted a decimal error had been made and that she only owed $3.00.

Like others, I also have to wonder whether Shippo is going to be able to deal with these issues properly.

rose-dee · ‎06-23-2017

@jt-libra wrote:
However, with respect to "the shipping platform is quoting the right amount", I think that PayPal believes they are. If Canada Post can't calculate the correct postage on their website given that I was charged an additional amount on two occasions after the label was purchased, how do they expect PayPal to calculate correctly.

Were you finally able to get through the Paypal "block" screen? I see someone up above said that the outstanding amount owing would simply be deducted the next time a label was done, but if you can't get into the Paypal label system... Catch-22.

Or did you find another way to make the payment on Paypal in order to be able to use the label system? I'm curious -- does the outstanding amount show up as a debit on your Paypal account, or in some other way?

qottie · ‎06-23-2017

@jt-libra wrote:

It will be interesting to see if this issue crops up on Shippo or Snap Ship.

Hi @jt-libra,

This issue is purely an issue with the PayPal platform. In short, there was a bug with their email that caused it to miss the decimal point on overage charges, so a $3.01 charge showed as $301 in the email. From my understanding, the amount that a) shows up on the PP platform, and b) is charged to the seller, is the correct ($3.01) amount.

PayPal is aware of the issue, and has halted the email while they get a fix in place. Note that this will absolutely not happen on Shippo or Snap Ship - it is a PayPal email communications issue.

pierrelebel · ‎06-23-2017

qottie - "...there was a bug with their email that caused it to miss the decimal point on overage charges, so a $3.01 charge showed as $301 in the email. ..>"

OK. Everyone can easily understand that.

However, the question remains why should there be a $3.01 postage due if the measurements and weight input were correct?

Could that request for $3.01 be another bug created by PayPal?

Why should a seller give PayPal the extra $3.01? Just because they say so? Does that make sense to you?

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Sellers don't need to know when to apply volumetric measurements as it is applied automatically when you do a label so that's why this whole thing sounds odd to me. I suppose it's possible that when CP measured the parcel they thought the parcel was actually a cm or so bigger than stated on the label and that made the parcel big enough to be charged for volume rather than weight. I'm just guessing here.. I can't think of another explanation right now.

The measurements for that particular parcel were 25 x 20 x 10 - .85 kg. When I looked up the other two I had been charged an extra amount for, one was the identical item with the same measurements, sent to the same province. The third was a different item with the same measurements, with a different weight (.7 kg) sent to a different province.

I have no explanation for this.

bassox333 · ‎06-23-2017

When I first saw the notice that CP was going to start doing this, I was reminded of the Lee Valley lawsuit. No refund for overpayment, no proof of underpayment.

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@revaud wrote:
Go to the PayPal page that shows the particular transaction of buying the postage for that shipment and check what the measurements say. I think you will find that an extra zero was added to them. That is the notification that PayPal would have sent to Canada Post after you paid for the postage.As I said before, in my case, 33x 33 x 5 CM's was changed after the fact to 330 x 330 x 50 CM's which means Canada Post wants $160.00 from me.It is a PayPal error.I originally put in the proper size of 33 x 33 x 5 and paid based on that size.

I noticed this a long, long time ago. If you look at your PayPal summary page and expand one of the postage items, you will see that there is an extra zero added to each of the measurements and it always shows Regular Parcel instead of Expedited Parcel. This appears to happen only with parcels shipped within Canada -- not Light Packet or Small Packet USA. It has never affected the amount of postage paid. I'm adding a screenshot. It isn't anything to worry about.

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@qottie wrote:
@jt-libra wrote:

It will be interesting to see if this issue crops up on Shippo or Snap Ship.
Hi @jt-libra,

This issue is purely an issue with the PayPal platform. In short, there was a bug with their email that caused it to miss the decimal point on overage charges, so a $3.01 charge showed as $301 in the email. From my understanding, the amount that a) shows up on the PP platform, and b) is charged to the seller, is the correct ($3.01) amount.

PayPal is aware of the issue, and has halted the email while they get a fix in place. Note that this will absolutely not happen on Shippo or Snap Ship - it is a PayPal email communications issue.

Thank you for your response. I probably wasn't clear about which issue I hoped wouldn't crop up on Shippo or Snap Ship. It's the same as Pierre has raised in his post #24. If, in fact, correct measurements and weight are entered, there shouldn't be an extra charge. I can't say for sure that I measured incorrectly by 1 or 2 cm, in which case the extra charge is warranted. However, since it has happened on three occasions on rather large parcels and given that Canada Post is converting actual weight to volumetric measure as I was told on the phone, I'm wondering how we deal with that.

thestuffofchris · ‎06-23-2017

I went back and looked at my most recent sale (April). I don't remember seeing this back then, but it has been a couple months so who knows.

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@rose-dee wrote:
@jt-libra wrote:
However, with respect to "the shipping platform is quoting the right amount", I think that PayPal believes they are. If Canada Post can't calculate the correct postage on their website given that I was charged an additional amount on two occasions after the label was purchased, how do they expect PayPal to calculate correctly.
Were you finally able to get through the Paypal "block" screen? I see someone up above said that the outstanding amount owing would simply be deducted the next time a label was done, but if you can't get into the Paypal label system... Catch-22.

Or did you find another way to make the payment on Paypal in order to be able to use the label system? I'm curious -- does the outstanding amount show up as a debit on your Paypal account, or in some other way?

Unfortunately, rose, I haven't had a sale since yesterday so have not had occasion to purchase a label. When I did a test the other day, I clicked on "Print Shipping Label" next to an item which had already been paid and shipped. That's when I saw the message I posted as a screenshot in #7. I didn't go any further.

Just now, I thought I would complete the label up to the point of paying:

First I saw this:

When I clicked on Review and Pay, I was taken to the label creation page with this notification on top.

I clicked on Review and Pay again and it appeared as though I would be able to proceed. I entered the dimensions but when it came to the point where the postage was being calculated, the little "round thingy" kept spinning and spinning and I couldn't go any further.

I don't know whether this is because a label with this addressee had already been created, or if it would be different with a brand new transaction. But, alas, I haven't had any new sales.

thestuffofchris · ‎06-23-2017

Strangely, it says you have to pay the underpaid postage by Mar 20th 2017!

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@thestuffofchris wrote:
Strangely, it says you have to pay the underpaid postage by Mar 20th 2017!

I know! It's crazy.

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@bassox333 wrote:
When I first saw the notice that CP was going to start doing this, I was reminded of the Lee Valley lawsuit. No refund for overpayment, no proof of underpayment.

I remembered reading about this when it happened, but if anyone is interested:

https://www.thestar.com/business/2013/08/21/canada_post_offers_5_million_to_end_shipping_charges_law...

I found the following excerpt very interesting, but it seems to apply only to commercial customers:

“It (Canada Post) also promises that no later than two years from the date of the tentative settlement (2013), being approved by a court, it will end the practice of charging based on volumetric weights.

That refers to a complicated formula, taking into account both volume and weight, to charge for shipping parcels. Delivery companies have complained that shipping a box of feathers still takes up as much space as a box of books on a truck, but the price difference can be substantial if they charge only by weight.

But Lee Valley argued that Canada Post’s method, measuring three sides, can greatly overstate the volume of parcel when it is irregularly shaped such as a triangular box – doubling the price in some cases because it assumes it is a long rectangular box.

“The litigation was motivated by principle. It was primarily directed at changing two practices at Canada Post,” said Rod Winsor, partner at Blaney McMurtry, who was the lead counsel for the plaintiffs.

Since the lawsuit was filed in 2006, Canada Post has ended its previous practice where if a shipper under-calculated the weight, it was corrected, but if the shipper over-calculated the weight, it was not corrected.

“They have already changed one practice, and as part of the proposed settlement, they will change the second one within two years,” Winsor said.

The class-action only applies to large commercial shippers so the potential impact on ordinary consumers is unclear.”

qottie · ‎06-23-2017

@pierrelebel wrote:

qottie - "...there was a bug with their email that caused it to miss the decimal point on overage charges, so a $3.01 charge showed as $301 in the email. ..>"

OK. Everyone can easily understand that.

However, the question remains why should there be a $3.01 postage due if the measurements and weight input were correct?

Could that request for $3.01 be another bug created by PayPal?

Why should a seller give PayPal the extra $3.01? Just because they say so? Does that make sense to you?

@pierrelebel,

Your questions are valid, though I am not the right person (nor is anyone at eBay) to give an authoritative answer since this is really a PayPal / Canada Post charge. I also can't really investigate if it is "correct" since the overage will be based on what was entered on PayPal and the measurements made by Canada Post on induction (neither of which I have access to).

What I am fairly certain of is that PayPal is just passing through overage charges from Canada Post. When the package is inducted, CPC measures the packages, and if they do not match the measurements on the label, their systems are now sending a request to PayPal for the difference. PayPal should have access to reason codes or some description that tells them why the overage is charged, so I would check first with them on what the charge is related to if you have a dispute or question about the charge.

Regarding your bug question, I asked PayPal if there were any issues with the overage charges themselves, and there are no known bugs that they flagged to me at this point, so it seems like it is not a bug.

Hope this helps.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-23-2017

An expedited parcel that is 25x20x10 would not go by dimensional weight within Canada.

I can explain how its figured out if you want but I didn't want to complicate the issue right now.

You just showed a screenshot from paypal where they seem to be using mm instead of cm when describing an expedited Canada parcel. When I looked at one of mine it was also in mm but when I clicked on see shipment details (you can see that link in your screenshot) the numbers had been converted back to cm. If you check the information for the item that they are charging you extra for and click on that see shipment details link has the number been converted back to cm? If not...that could be the problem and just like the other poster, you shouldn't owe anything.

qottie · ‎06-23-2017

@jt-libra wrote:

@qottie wrote:

@jt-libra wrote:

It will be interesting to see if this issue crops up on Shippo or Snap Ship.

Hi @jt-libra,

This issue is purely an issue with the PayPal platform. In short, there was a bug with their email that caused it to miss the decimal point on overage charges, so a $3.01 charge showed as $301 in the email. From my understanding, the amount that a) shows up on the PP platform, and b) is charged to the seller, is the correct ($3.01) amount.

PayPal is aware of the issue, and has halted the email while they get a fix in place. Note that this will absolutely not happen on Shippo or Snap Ship - it is a PayPal email communications issue.

Thank you for your response. I probably wasn't clear about which issue I hoped wouldn't crop up on Shippo or Snap Ship. It's the same as Pierre has raised in his post #24. If, in fact, correct measurements and weight are entered, there shouldn't be an extra charge. I can't say for sure that I measured incorrectly by 1 or 2 cm, in which case the extra charge is warranted. However, since it has happened on three occasions on rather large parcels and given that Canada Post is converting actual weight to volumetric measure as I was told on the phone, I'm wondering how we deal with that.

Hi @jt-libra

I am not an authority on all of the platforms, but what I can say is that since Shippo is collecting both the dimensions and weights, as long as sellers enter the correct measurements when they print labels, in general they will not be charged overage fees. The platform uses the correct measurements and services selected to determine volumetric weight, using Canada Post's rating engine.

Obviously there is always some room for differences in the measurement as determined by sellers vs. Canada Post, but in practice those differences should be minor and not lead to large overage charges.

If you want more details on volumetric weight, check out Shipping Charges & Weight overview on the Canada Post site. It talks about volumetric weight if you scroll down a bit in that section.

thestuffofchris · ‎06-23-2017

That makes sense. Looking at my screenshot now, it seems that may be the case. The extra zero is the conversion from cm to mm, and kg to g.

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

An expedited parcel that is 25x20x10 would not go by dimensional weight within Canada.
I can explain how its figured out if you want but I didn't want to complicate the issue right now.

Even so, I would think that any shipping platform would recognize that and charge the appropriate postage.

You just showed a screenshot from paypal where they seem to be using mm instead of cm when describing an expedited Canada parcel. When I looked at one of mine it was also in mm but when I clicked on see shipment details (you can see that link in your screenshot) the numbers had been converted back to cm. If you check the information for the item that they are charging you extra for and click on that see shipment details link has the number been converted back to cm? If not...that could be the problem and just like the other poster, you shouldn't owe anything.

Whenever I see measurements such as 250 x 200 x 100, I recognize them as cm with an added zero. Long ago, when I first noticed this, I checked back to my shipping details and saw that, in each case, they were displayed in cm, including the item in question.

In the last six months, the three underpayments totalled about $9.00. My curiousity is not such that I would spend a lot of time or energy pursuing this matter simply because my time is better spent elsewhere. I've already spent enough time on this. When we start talking large amounts, I might be more concerned. But, for now, it is what it is!

jt-libra · ‎06-23-2017

@qottie wrote:

Hi @jt-libra

I am not an authority on all of the platforms, but what I can say is that since Shippo is collecting both the dimensions and weights, as long as sellers enter the correct measurements when they print labels, in general they will not be charged overage fees. The platform uses the correct measurements and services selected to determine volumetric weight, using Canada Post's rating engine.

Obviously there is always some room for differences in the measurement as determined by sellers vs. Canada Post, but in practice those differences should be minor and not lead to large overage charges.

If you want more details on volumetric weight, check out Shipping Charges & Weight overview on the Canada Post site. It talks about volumetric weight if you scroll down a bit in that section.

I just wanted to say that it's nice having an eBay employee review the various threads on this Board and offer information or advice.

Thank you.