The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

Maybe a strong comment, but I don't even know if I should even continue on eBay.  I rarely pay any insertion fees ... $4.00 or $5.00 at most in any given month.

 

I have two selling accounts.  Before the fee change:

 

Health and Beauty:

 

50 free auction only listings on each of .ca and .com.  When an auction promotion came along, I could re-list (or sell similar) any 7-day listings which had ended.  With a fixed price promotion, I could list these items for 30 days and if I ran out of the free ones, I still had the FP visible.  On occasion, I listed specific items as FP at a cost of 30 cents .... never more than a dozen.

 

(As of May 1st, only 20 free auction listings per site)

 

Media:

 

50 free Fixed Price on each of .ca and .com.  If I had used all my free listings, I could re-list for only 5 cents.  Again, with the promotions, I would be able to have all my available items visible each month ....  at little or no cost.

 

(As of May 1st, only 20 free fixed price listings per site PLUS the listing fee has increased from 5 cents to 30 cents.)

 

 

I was always grateful for the free listings and any promotion I was invited to because it allowed me to list the majority of items I had available.

 

Now if I open a store for both @ $19.95, that's a $40.00 expense I've never had before.  I usually have 100 to 125 listings available on each of the selling accounts.  If I reduce the number of my listings to those I can afford, I'm still looking at fees close to the $20 mark for each (with fewer items listed).  That's not a lot of money for the majority of sellers.  However, I don't earn a lot on eBay but what I do earn is always devoted to monthly expenses, like rent or utilities.  I don't do this as a hobby and I don't view the money I earn as an "extra" to be used to treat myself.

 

On a good month, I might earn $400 or $500, so the $40 I would spend on stores/fees would not be prohibitive.  But often, I have a very slow month, like this past April, where my profit was only $160.00 (the $40.00 would have a larger impact).

 

Are there other sellers out there like me .... who are having a real problem with the new fee structure?  Maybe you can offer some advice as to how best to deal with this new policy.

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

We don't know yet if the listing specials will continue but if they do, it sounds like that would work for you.

 

As Pierre suggested, another option is to open one store.  In a basic store you could list 150 listings on .ca and another 150 on .com.

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

"The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!"

 

It depends if you list items at auction that sell or not.

 

If your items sell, eBay will refund your listing fees.  That sounds fair to me and means that sellers listing items that sell at auction will not have to pay anymore than the old schedule.

 

The new pricing policy rewards sellers with items that sell and penalize those who list items that do not attract bids, relist after relist.

 

The new fee structure:

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/fees.html

 

"You will receive one insertion fee credit for each auction-style listing if that listed item sells. "

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

When it comes to the possibility of opening an eBay store (or two) , I suggest you work the numbers carefully as they apply to your categories and method of selling.

 

While there is an extra cost of $16 or $20 a month per store (I frankly do not think you need two) do not forget to take the savings into account.  They vary per category but savings in FVFs often pay for the store monthly fees.

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

We don't know yet if the listing specials will continue but if they do, it sounds like that would work for you.

 

As Pierre suggested, another option is to open one store.  In a basic store you could list 150 listings on .ca and another 150 on .com.

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!


@pierrelebel wrote:

 

If your items sell, eBay will refund your listing fees.  That sounds fair to me and means that sellers listing items that sell at auction will not have to pay anymore than the old schedule.

 


I'm aware of that Pierre.  And it's a positive thing for people whose items are perhaps unique and sell quickly.

 

But when you sell in a highly competitive category, you may have to list the same item 7, 8 or 9 times before it sells.  So there are a lot of listing fees to be paid before that happens.

 

And it's not a case where I'm listing junk to get rid of items ... it's simply a matter of competition.

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@pierrelebel wrote:

 

When it comes to the possibility of opening an eBay store (or two) , I suggest you work the numbers carefully as they apply to your categories and method of selling.

 

While there is an extra cost of $16 or $20 a month per store (I frankly do not think you need two) do not forget to take the savings into account.  They vary per category but savings in FVFs often pay for the store monthly fees.


I have looked at potential savings with a store, but I don't sell enough for a 1% lower FVF to make much difference.

 

Anyway, you look at it, I'm going to be paying a lot more. 

 

Now I recognize that relying on promos to survive was always a tenuous situation.  They could have stopped at any time.  But they were certainly beneficial to me.

 

I do appreciate your comments, Pierre.

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

We don't know yet if the listing specials will continue but if they do, it sounds like that would work for you.

 

As Pierre suggested, another option is to open one store.  In a basic store you could list 150 listings on .ca and another 150 on .com.


I hadn't considered one store only.  That's something to look at.

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

"you may have to list the same item 7, 8 or 9 times before it sells. "

 

I think that is exactly what eBay is trying to eliminate - or at least minimize.  Many recent changes of policy seem to have the intent to keep the site "fresh" with new auction listings instead of having the same "stale" listings, week after week.

 

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@pierrelebel wrote:

"you may have to list the same item 7, 8 or 9 times before it sells. "

 

I think that is exactly what eBay is trying to eliminate - or at least minimize.  Many recent changes of policy seem to have the intent to keep the site "fresh" with new auction listings instead of having the same "stale" listings, week after week.

 


And I understand that.  But when you are not allowed any free Fixed Price listings in your category, you do want to use the auction ones.  So I tried to rotate the items and not list the same one 7 times in a row .... and I would change the pictures or the titles.  And, as I mentioned, I would have the same items shown as Fixed Price whenever I could, for a 30-day period, which dropped in search as the days went by.

 

When there are 50 or 100 items identical to the one you're selling, it's more difficult.  I'm almost always the lowest priced (I don't adhere to a strict profit margin) and I get plenty of views but if the demand isn't there, you end up re-listing and re-listing.

 

However, as of May 1st, I am no longer restricted to auction only, and the 20 free listings can be either auction or FP.

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@jt-libra wrote:

@pierrelebel wrote:

"you may have to list the same item 7, 8 or 9 times before it sells. "

 

I think that is exactly what eBay is trying to eliminate - or at least minimize.  Many recent changes of policy seem to have the intent to keep the site "fresh" with new auction listings instead of having the same "stale" listings, week after week.

 


And I understand that.  But when you are not allowed any free Fixed Price listings in your category, you do want to use the auction ones.  So I tried to rotate the items and not list the same one 7 times in a row .... and I would change the pictures or the titles.  And, as I mentioned, I would have the same items shown as Fixed Price whenever I could, for a 30-day period, which dropped in search as the days went by.

 

When there are 50 or 100 items identical to the one you're selling, it's more difficult.  I'm almost always the lowest priced (I don't adhere to a strict profit margin) and I get plenty of views but if the demand isn't there, you end up re-listing and re-listing.

 

However, as of May 1st, I am no longer restricted to auction only, and the 20 free listings can be either auction or FP.


I disagree. There are 125 million active buying accounts. Let's stretch demographics and say two people per household. That is a quarter billion people you are reaching out to, never-mind the multitude of one time buying guest accounts.

 

Open one store and use the 150, plus watch for listing promos that stores also get. Go over your limit and the cost is not much. eBay has a fee calculator that shows costs and savings. When ever I go over my 500 free, sometimes by as many as 100, one sale covers that cost.

 

I do not compete against the low price sellers. I compete against the high price sellers as that is where the most profit is. I do not lower my prices as low as I can, I rasie them as high as I can.

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@mr.elmwood wrote:

I disagree. There are 125 million active buying accounts. Let's stretch demographics and say two people per household. That is a quarter billion people you are reaching out to, never-mind the multitude of one time buying guest accounts.

 

Open one store and use the 150, plus watch for listing promos that stores also get. Go over your limit and the cost is not much. eBay has a fee calculator that shows costs and savings. When ever I go over my 500 free, sometimes by as many as 100, one sale covers that cost.

 

I do not compete against the low price sellers. I compete against the high price sellers as that is where the most profit is. I do not lower my prices as low as I can, I rasie them as high as I can.


Point 1:  I have used the calculator many times and, up until now, it's always indicated that I am better off without a store.  However, it now shows paying fees for my items or paying $20.00 for the store works out to roughly the same thing.

 

Point 2:  It's wonderful that that approach has worked for you.  It has not for me.  Raising my prices resulted in fewer sales.  I suppose our different clientele accounts for that.  I could be wrong but I would venture to say that not very many young women are buying auto parts 🙂

 

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!


@jt-libra wrote:

@mr.elmwood wrote:

I disagree. There are 125 million active buying accounts. Let's stretch demographics and say two people per household. That is a quarter billion people you are reaching out to, never-mind the multitude of one time buying guest accounts.

 

Open one store and use the 150, plus watch for listing promos that stores also get. Go over your limit and the cost is not much. eBay has a fee calculator that shows costs and savings. When ever I go over my 500 free, sometimes by as many as 100, one sale covers that cost.

 

I do not compete against the low price sellers. I compete against the high price sellers as that is where the most profit is. I do not lower my prices as low as I can, I rasie them as high as I can.


Point 1:  I have used the calculator many times and, up until now, it's always indicated that I am better off without a store.  However, it now shows paying fees for my items or paying $20.00 for the store works out to roughly the same thing.

 

Point 2:  It's wonderful that that approach has worked for you.  It has not for me.  Raising my prices resulted in fewer sales.  I suppose our different clientele accounts for that.  I could be wrong but I would venture to say that not very many young women are buying auto parts 🙂

 


Point 1.  100% incorrect. A store gives you access to many features that you would not otherwise have. You go from no tools to a multitude of tools. Kinda like going from a bicycle to a fully loaded car for a highway trip. Your rationale is that they are both means of transportation. My view is that one does the job a lot better than the other.

 

Point 2. 100% incorrect. It is not my clientele, which has a surprisingly large female base, it is my marketing efforts.  If you want to believe you have no control, you never will.  I change things up to appeal to customers. I make it easy for customers. I do not market to "males", I market to people.

 

My store has always made me a lot of money with minimal effort.

 

I have one particular widget set. I sold one in five months. Changed things up and sold five in one month. I price matched with the highest price going.

 

I know I influence my sales. I have that control. I know that my effort determines my results.

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!


@mr.elmwood wrote:

@jt-libra wrote:

@mr.elmwood wrote:

I disagree. There are 125 million active buying accounts. Let's stretch demographics and say two people per household. That is a quarter billion people you are reaching out to, never-mind the multitude of one time buying guest accounts.

 

Open one store and use the 150, plus watch for listing promos that stores also get. Go over your limit and the cost is not much. eBay has a fee calculator that shows costs and savings. When ever I go over my 500 free, sometimes by as many as 100, one sale covers that cost.

 

I do not compete against the low price sellers. I compete against the high price sellers as that is where the most profit is. I do not lower my prices as low as I can, I rasie them as high as I can.


Point 1:  I have used the calculator many times and, up until now, it's always indicated that I am better off without a store.  However, it now shows paying fees for my items or paying $20.00 for the store works out to roughly the same thing.

 

Point 2:  It's wonderful that that approach has worked for you.  It has not for me.  Raising my prices resulted in fewer sales.  I suppose our different clientele accounts for that.  I could be wrong but I would venture to say that not very many young women are buying auto parts 🙂

 


Point 1.  100% incorrect. A store gives you access to many features that you would not otherwise have. You go from no tools to a multitude of tools. Kinda like going from a bicycle to a fully loaded car for a highway trip. Your rationale is that they are both means of transportation. My view is that one does the job a lot better than the other.

 

Point 2. 100% incorrect. It is not my clientele, which has a surprisingly large female base, it is my marketing efforts.  If you want to believe you have no control, you never will.  I change things up to appeal to customers. I make it easy for customers. I do not market to "males", I market to people.

 

My store has always made me a lot of money with minimal effort.

 

I have one particular widget set. I sold one in five months. Changed things up and sold five in one month. I price matched with the highest price going.

 

I know I influence my sales. I have that control. I know that my effort determines my results.


You know, Mr. E., my instinct is to just to let your post slide.  But I can't.

 

There is so much I could say, but I will respond to only one of your comments.  If you want to believe you have no control, you never will.  This is way too presumptuous.  What you know of me is only what I have stated in this post, asking for a couple of suggestions (which I've received and noted).  I didn't invite a motivational speech.  You know nothing of my marketing strategy or my previous experience with having a store. What works for you does not work for everyone.  Like I said before, I'm happy for all your success!!

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

About the $0.05 for media, here is what I just got today on a relist of a cassette tape:

 

"You've qualified for a free insertion fee and have saved US $0.05"

 

Although I did edit and change the listing to a 7 day auction after copying the above message, it was a 30 day BIN..

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!

Hi 'jt' -- I only just saw your thread today, and it's late at the moment, but I can hear your frustration, and I completely sympathize.  EBay has squeezed and squeezed and squeezed sellers in the direction eBay wants to go, not necessarily in the direction individual sellers have found workable and successful for them.  

 

However I want to take a different tack from all the other posters here.  Here is my approach to the challenge (as it has indeed become) of being the little guy selling on eBay, especially if you're selling discretionary (i.e. non-essential) items, or not the hottest new technie toy. 

 

I try to read between the lines of eBay's often opaque (or even apparently nonsensical) changes and decisions. I'm always trying to glean what their long-term strategy might be.  In turn, that helps me (I hope!) as a little "boutique" seller to keep my head above the water. 

 

With regard to listing fees specifically, I think EBay has been sending out pretty clear messages with their policy and fee changes over the past 2 years that they are trying to herd sellers into the store subscription corner. They no doubt want to encourage the kind of reliable, even cash flow that subscriptions provide.  Perhaps they're deliberating making it more difficult for non-store owners, perhaps it's just coincidental. However, it does appear, as you point out, that listing restrictions and costs have increased for non-store owners.  

 

Ultimately, I would not be surprised if eBay introduced a 2-tier system of sellers: occasional or hobby sellers who have all sorts of restrictions on what they can sell, in what format, and for how much, and store owners or subscribers on the other hand who get more and more perquisites all the time.  

 

Some years ago I made the decision to opt for a store (this was before subscriptions).  There are many other features that, having worked in marketing in the "real" world, I knew I could make extensive use of, and those features have worked pretty well for me.  When subscriptions became available I jumped because I figured I'd still be here for a while and I might as well get the maximum benefit for the minimum price going (I have a "Basic" store subscription). 

 

As a result, I haven't paid a penny that I can remember in ordinary listing fees for a very long time, above and beyond the $15.95 I pay per month for my store (although I do pay for an occasional upgrade for special items).  I use as many of the 150 free listings per month on eBay.ca as I can, then if I have more to list, I wait for a promotion (of which there seem to be many these days).  Above that, I still have the 150 in reserve on .com if I want or need to list there.  In addition, store owners are now allowed 150 free auctions each month in the "Collectibles" category.  

 

I realize with your product mix, the "Collectibles" might not help you, but with potentially 300 free listings per month (on .ca and .com), as well as the promos (for auctions and overflow), you might want to consider a store subscription.  I've always maintained that a store presence, where you can establish your "brand" and develop buyer familiarity is worth far more than the mere cost of the free listings.  Many sellers look at the obvious costs and forget the value of tools and features that are at their disposal in a store.  If those features create even 2 or 3 extra sales per month, the subscription is paid for.  There's a good reason why businesses in the "real" world pay huge dollars for intangibles like trademarks, goodwill and customer lists. 

 

Take for example the store subscriber list.  I market this extensively in after-sales parcel inserts, flyers, email messages, etc., and as my list grows, my repeat customer base grows.  

 

I suppose what I'm saying is that you may want to take another look at how you could organize the types of listings you use to take the best advantage of a store subscription.  Personally I don't see the point in a month-to-month subscription if a seller is planning to be around on eBay for a while.  The subscription cancellation penalties only apply if you cancel prior to the final month of a subscription year.  

 

You have the kinds of products that you could market heavily and attractively with a store -- and consider that as more and more sellers on eBay have storefront visibility, the "old style" is going to become less and less attractive to buyers, particularly new buyers.  I have to admit that personally, as a buyer (which I still occasionally am on eBay), I tend to pass over the "old style" sellers with long, undifferentiated displays of this-and-that which go on for pages, in favour of the easier to access stores, especially if the store owner has taken the time to set up store categories properly.  

 

If you're really unsure about how a store would work for you, you could try it out on the month-to-month plan for those extra $4.00/month before committing to a subscription.  I think there will come a day very soon when eBay wants its overall "look" to be far more homogeneous, and since they've been strongly promoting the new store design, it's quite possible the "old style" non-store sellers will be left in the dust.  As I said, with eBay you often have to try to predict, adapt, observe and experiment to stay somewhere near the head of the curve.  

 

No, I don't work for eBay (LOL). Woman LOL

 

P.S.  As much as I may agree with many of the points Mr. Elmwood made, he is in a different category than you and I, being a seller of things that people need, as opposed to want.  That makes a big difference in ability to attract buyers.  Almost everybody eventually needs a car part, but people can do without discretionary items like sewing patterns, CDs and beauty products (well, maybe not the latter completely Smiley Wink).  

 

 

 

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@rose-dee wrote:

As a result, I haven't paid a penny that I can remember in ordinary listing fees for a very long time, above and beyond the $15.95 I pay per month for my store (although I do pay for an occasional upgrade for special items).  I use as many of the 150 free listings per month on eBay.ca as I can, then if I have more to list, I wait for a promotion (of which there seem to be many these days).  Above that, I still have the 150 in reserve on .com if I want or need to list there.  In addition, store owners are now allowed 150 free auctions each month in the "Collectibles" category.  

 


100 free auctions for stores in collectibles, not 150.

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The New Listing Fees are Going to Ruin Me!


@pocomocomputing wrote:

 

"100 free auctions for stores in collectibles, not 150."


Whoops, you're right of course!  It's nearly 2:00 a.m. here in Atlantic time, my mind is starting to check out.  It's a little earlier where you are, so you're probably still thinking clearly.  Woman Very Happy

 

The main point I was trying to make for 'jt' was to carefully consider the value of the intangibles that come along with having a store, and to make maximum use of them to boost sales.  In other words, to look beyond simply comparing the listing costs of store vs. non-store.  

 

I think perhaps this fits in with what Mr. Elmwood might have been trying to say in referring to having control over sales.  

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

We don't know yet if the listing specials will continue but if they do, it sounds like that would work for you.

 

As Pierre suggested, another option is to open one store.  In a basic store you could list 150 listings on .ca and another 150 on .com.


I will agree with PJ and say wait and see if the extra free listing promos continue on eBay.  No need to panic yet if you has a non-store with 50 + 50 and are now 20 + 20. ebay gave out so many extra free promos that I was invited to that I never used up my non-store 50 + 50. I also used both the eBay.ca and eBay.com sites to double the 50 + 50 and will do the same for the 20 + 20.

 

Is eBay pushing non-store sellers to stores? Maybe. If they were in the past 3 years, having those extra free promos sure did not encourage non-store sellers to get a store. I was ready to back to store after I closed my store in Canada Post strike/walkout but all of the free promos started then and went on 2-3 times a month. I never used all of the 50 + 50 each month because there was always a promo to use first. Never needed to go back to a store. Store lower FVF saving was not enough to pay for a store.

 

If the extra free promos become rarer or less invitations, then non-store sellers will have to consider a store. All non-store seller will have the same problem so will have to make the same decisions.

 

Non-store sellers will have to wait and see how the extra free promos go and adjust to the new reality.

 

On another note, I always thought it was unfair to store sellers having to pay for their free listings (or pay for listing before they got free listing) while many non-store sellers got free listings and extra free listing promos. It never made sense to me to treat store sellers this way. All the free listing promos used by non-store sellers took away some sales from store sellers. The only reason ebay did this was that the free listing promos generated money for eBay and eBay does not care where the money comes from. Good for ebay but not good for store sellers. What was the point of having a store if eBay diluted their sales. eBay makes no sense at times.

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I thought that giving the same amount of 100 free auctions to all store levels a bit strange. I would think that each level would get a different amount in some proportion to the 150/500/2500 free for each level.

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Even at midnight, you're still very articulate, rose!

 

I too have been under the impression that many of the changes eBay has made over the year or so was to encourage sellers to consider opening a store.  But then they continued with their frequent promotions, so I started to question that notion. 

 

I feel like I'm at a crossroads right now.  Given the amount of time I'm spending on eBay, for what I would call little return, I'm investigating other means of earning additional income.  About four years ago, when I started to think that my time would be better spent elsewhere, I decided to open a second selling account.  I believe in selling only what you know (as opposed to those who have a knack for selling anything) so with health and beauty, clothing and accessories, being my first area of expertise, I turned to my second area of knowledge -- movies (not only recent releases but foreign films, documentaries and such).  Surprisingly those sales were higher than I had anticipated and this year have surpassed my cosmetics sales.  However, even with the two accounts combined, it's a tough go.  One impeding factor is that I have less inventory since much of the product I was selling came from the U.S., paid for in U.S. funds, which exchange could not be recovered in re-sale.

 

My previous experience with a store is limited.  I had one about 3 years ago for, I believe, 3 months.  I tried to make it as attractive as I could and I liked the concept of a store, but measured against the number of promotions offered, I felt it was an unnecessary added expense.  Granted, had I kept it for a longer period, I would no doubt have made better use of the features available to store-owners.

 

I had intended to carry on as I have, until this new fee structure came into effect.  But now I have to re-think how I want to sell .... or if I even want to continue.  I think I will see how the month of May progresses.  I won't re-list lower priced items that will eat up my 20 free listings and I'll pay listing fees only on those items I think are more likely to sell.  I'll see what my total cost is at the end of the month and weigh it against the cost of a store.  I'm also constantly researching new suppliers of goods and have an idea about opening a third account.  But that is going to take more research.

 

In the meantime, good luck to us all.  And thank you, rose-dee, for your always welcomed comments.

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