Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

jvi6264
Community Member

We are dealing with this policy right now, and it's all about the buyer and takes away any rights we as sellers had. We sold some very expensive vintage and rare stereo equipment to China, and the buyer is claiming one unit is damaged internally where we have pictures showing it perfect and videos showing it working. After paying several,hundred dollars in fees and giving the buyer free shipping, which cost us almost $1000 in total, the buyer is, I believe, scamming us, and ebay is going along with it! There is no way since the box and exterior of the units are intact the damage could have been caused by shipping. There are capacitors bent over! Obviously he or a tech did it, and he's threatening us with the money back guarantee if we don't give him a partial refund.

 

ebays response when I called and talked to an escalation specialist? They would force us to take the return, arrange and pay for the return shipping, and refund him all his money ( it's 4000 U.S.!). Are you kidding me? And the girl had the nerve to say to me have a nice evening at the end?!

 

i am shocked, and I will fight this tooth and nail. This is an extremely unfair policy and gives the buyer all the power.

 

I have reported the buyer for misusing the returns and guarantee policy. And I am going to phone eBay again and demand higher managers until I get someone who will listen to me. This is 100% unjust and a terrible policy.

 

Message 1 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Was this an eBay transaction?

Message 2 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Possible that it was opened by China Customs who then opened the unit and poked around inside? Customs could have damaged it, not the customer. It then arrives at the customer damaged, with the box intact.

 

At $4K, any and all Customs would open it for inspection and assessment of duty and taxes.

 

eBay protocol is that the item is in yours hands until the customer receives it.

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Message 3 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

I would take a practical approach and be very very polite.  

 

Ask how much of a partial refund would make the buyer happy.  Don't offer an amount.  Ask.  It might be less than you expect........ or not.

 

 

Message 4 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Just sitting here thinking.

 

Customer has sent pictures of the damage? You have insurance? It was damaged in transit. By whom? Don't know, but, it was. This becomes an issue between you and the shipping company.

 

You contracted them to get it to the customer intact. They failed. .

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Message 5 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

mr. elmwood makes a good point. But the other half of that point is that your insurance claim against the shipper has nothing to do with your buyer's claim against you.

The two claims should proceed separately.

 

 

Message 6 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca


@femmefan1946 wrote:

mr. elmwood makes a good point. But the other half of that point is that your insurance claim against the shipper has nothing to do with your buyer's claim against you.

The two claims should proceed separately.

 

 


What the lovely Miss Femme says. You would need to refund the buyer and then proceed with your insurance claim. Procedure is just that.

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Message 7 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Why would you risk selling stuff like that to a china buyer?

Message 8 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

It was an eBay transaction yes

Message 9 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Very good question ladybug2785, lesson learned.

Message 10 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca


@ladybug2785 wrote:

Why would you risk selling stuff like that to a china buyer?


BINGO!

 

My thoughts exactly....

 

thD

Message 11 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

jvi6264
Community Member

It finally clicked. The last message the buyer sent to us started with

 

Look....

 

So I looked. And this is what I saw...

 

Here is a section of the preamp before we shipped it, a section by the way, that you would want to replace to make as if it's original and to match the other preamp. The preamp worked fine like this for 25 years, as they were an equivalent replacement for the original caps, which had failed. This was shown and explained in the listing.

 

image.jpg

 

Here is the picture he sent us, claiming the damage was due to bad solder joints and poor packing, yet the box, additional cardboard layers, bubble wrap, chassis of the preamp, as well as the other preamp and power supply were all intact and, in his words, in good condition.

 

I finally took a really close look at this picture tonight, analyzing it, looking at the patterns of the capacitors, resistors, wires, leads... and it quickly became obvious what I was looking at!

 

image.jpg

 

Check out how the caps are laying down, the dents on one, the placement of not only the cap with the red top but also the two larger blue caps relative to the bundle of 4 smaller blue caps. The two gray resistors with red stripes (upper left) used to both lead to the other large blue cap (now on the far right, to the right even of the red top cap, which used to be the rightmost cap). Look how leads from the resistors are cut, yet the solder joints are still intact. It's as if that second large blue cap broke free from the leads, jumped through the two resisters and over top all the other caps to land on the far right, knocking everything else over in the process lol

 

How could the rest of the preamp not be damaged (except for a broken lead on one capacitor in another section, in the middle of several others, pics below, one that you would also, coincidentally, want to replace). And yet these parts have ended up like scrambled eggs. They've obviously been cut out to be replaced, to bring the preamp to original, and then put back in, but all wrongly placed and not even wired or fastened to the chassis, and can just be lifted out (I don't think the technician had a picture of the original layout, which was in the listing). They did this to claim shipping damage and extort a nice sized partial refund, strong arming us with threats of using buyer protection and by opening a request for a return (which I highly doubt they actually want to follow through with). Not to mention our PayPal account has a hold of over $5000 Canadian on it. So I would say we are being scammed.

 

We initiated the process to close our store today. We've had enough of paying the fees we do and yet dealing with this kind of **bleep** and policies now that seemed biased to the side of the buyer. The escalation specialist I talked to was really of no help, condescending, and I felt like she was just following her script, applying the policy with no real discernment, logic, or empathy for the situation before her.

Here are those other pics, the one capacitor that is different is the only one with not a broken solder joint, but the lead is broken off and appears to have been pushed to the right. Yet the other caps are just fine.

 

His evidence

 

image.jpg

 

Before we shipped

 

image.jpg

 

Both preamps worked beautifully before we shipped them. Good thing we made videos and took lots of pictures.

 

This guy is not getting one penny from us. There's no way I'm going to look like an idiot or complicit in some way with his actions by filing a shipping claim. eBay had better back us up now, or they can take their exorbitant fees, their pathetic new policy, and ... We will never deal on here again and will be checking out bonanza.com. Apparently there are quite a few disenfranchised former eBay sellers on there.

Message 12 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

As others have mentioned.. I would ask him what kind of refund is he after before getting ahead of yourself.  Unfortunately, you will not have much luck getting the postal system to cover damages.  Most likely they will not admit guilt/responsibility on this.  It will be their word against yours and you are dealing with international postal.  What if you covered the cost to get this repaired?  It might not be that bad. Definitely cheaper than return postage and full refund.  You could also get hit with import charges on your end. 

Message 13 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

I am very sorry this has happened to you.  I lost $1,000 once in a similar situation.

Check the feedback this purchaser has left for others.  It might tell you if he has done something like this before.

Message 14 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Unfortunately, the chances of Ebay siding with you is pretty much zero (because you can't prove that the damage was caused by the buyer). If the buyer sends it back following the rules for buyer protection, Ebay/Paypal will side with them and you will have no choice but to refund. 

Message 15 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Does the purchaser not have to return the item with tracking before you must do the refund? Could it be fixed if you get it back? I agree they are scamming you but wonder if you should make them return for a refund. Just a thought.

 

I would definitely set China up as a country you never ship to again.

Message 16 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

I have some hope after talking to an eBay high value claim specialist.  I'm sending them more information. The buyer has opened a case, which is what I was waiting for. He hit us with a negative feedback before doing so though.

 

going through his 9 pages of feedback left for others, I can see he's done this sort of thing in the past too. It took him 6 days from receipt of the preamps to contact us, saying he didn't know how to hook them up. That's ridiculous, as anything could have happened in that time.  Then it took more time to,receive the claims of damage. At every step he has ignored our comments, twisting things.  Like when I reiterated his claims to refute them, he somehow took that as us admitting fault.  Seriously??

 

I can tell you, as I told the first girl from eBay customer support I talked to (the one that was condescending and blatantly didn't care), we will not be issuing a refund of any sort. We will fight this as far as we need to.  It's the principle as much as anything.  When did they stop allowing sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers, reasoning it deters them from shopping on eBay.

 

thats about eBay profits and allows buyers to strong arm sellers.  I won't put up with it.  Where is the so-called seller protection?

 

I am waiting to see the outcome of the case.  The next step after that is an appeal, if we lose.  After that, the consumer watchdog for Canada.  There is something so inherently wrong with these policies, allowing international buyers to abuse Canadian and U.S. sellers, that I can't even believe they are actual policies!

 

I am going to continue to post updates here until this is resolved, for those who are interested.

 

Enough is enough.  Nothing will change if we don't protest it.

 

 

Message 17 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

Thanks gifts_of_elegance. We did and can see this has happened before.  We would lose about that amount in the end, not a chance.

 

i think eBay counts on sellers being somewhat passive, feeling like you can't take on the giant so to speak.

 

I don't have those reservations. I expect the seller protection they promised me. I expect fairness.

 

that girl I talked to said something akin to eBay being a third party and unable to determine if the buyer damaged the equipment or it arrived that way.

 

exactly. eBay is a third party to the transaction and should let the seller say no returns, to determine for themselves what the case is. As a purportedly impartial third party, they should not be so biased to the buyers benefit,  the buyers don't pay eBay fees, we do! We need to assert our rights.

Message 18 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

katlover, apparently we have to pay for the return shipping,  and I don't know what sort of damage they've done, or might do, before we get it back. So we are refusing the return, and if they want to persecute us for the money, they can deal with the courts, because we will fight them tooth and nail.  After contacting the consumer watchdog that is.

 

we have shipped all over the world without problems, even to China previously. With the new policies, we will on,y ship in North America or to the UK or Russia.  We've always had great experiences shipping to those areas.

 

thats if we ever sell on eBay again, which we very well might not.  There are other ways with companies who are not punitive to their sellers... I just can't condone their new policies.

Message 19 of 20
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Unjust policy AGAINST sellers with money back guarantee on eBay.ca

I was thinking of when they were just requesting a partial refund you could say no & tell them to return. I know once they open a case you would be stuck with return shipping. I did think the rules were different if a seller offers to take a return but have never really dealt with this.

 

 

I wish you luck with your fight. I have never been very successful in any of my "battles" with eBay but I sincerely hope you will win in this very unfair situation.

Message 20 of 20
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