eBay

greenmangoes · ‎09-02-2015

A customer is returning an item because it doesn't fit. Not only did I put the size of the item in the listing I also measured it manually and put the measurement in the listing. Now they are returning it because it's too big - but the measurements were there? Should I just do the refund and not bother to point that out?

Thanks!!

You only fail when you don't try!

mr.elmwood · ‎09-02-2015

@greenmangoes wrote:
A customer is returning an item because it doesn't fit. Not only did I put the size of the item in the listing I also measured it manually and put the measurement in the listing. Now they are returning it because it's too big - but the measurements were there? Should I just do the refund and not bother to point that out?

Thanks!!

What would you expect from a retailer when you went to return something? You would expect them to smile, nod, and give you your money back, wouldn't you?

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rose-dee · ‎09-02-2015

@greenmangoes wrote:
A customer is returning an item because it doesn't fit. Not only did I put the size of the item in the listing I also measured it manually and put the measurement in the listing. Now they are returning it because it's too big - but the measurements were there? Should I just do the refund and not bother to point that out?

I take it from what you're saying that this return was worked out between you and the buyer, or that the buyer told you they were returning the item, i.e. not through an MBG or Paypal claim? If the item is already on its way, there's little you can do but refund once you receive it. Unfortunately you will get a defect for that.

My understanding is that if a situation isn't quite buyer's remorse, but isn't exactly INAD (i.e. if the buyer admits they didn't read the sizing information), eBay may side with the seller if the buyer makes a return claim, as long as the details were clear in the listing. If I recall correctly, eBay will look at the listing particulars in such a case and determine whether the seller or the buyer was at fault. However with the fit of clothing it's a gray area. You would have to contest the case and if you lose, well, you'll get a black mark for an unresolved case.

In this case if you're confident you properly described the sizing and that the buyer didn't read it, you might be better asking eBay to step in (if you still can). By the way, if you have any eBay messages from the buyer indicating they didn't read the description and that's why they want to return, that might help.

Here's the applicable policy: http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/item-not-as-described.html

Provide documentation that the item was properly described

If you or the buyer has asked us to step in and help with a return request because the item wasn't as described in the listing, and you can show that you properly described the item, the return request can be closed.

Examples of situations when documentation can help:

The buyer stated that the item was used, not new, but the listing clearly described it as used.
You disclosed and correctly described a flaw in the item.
The listing properly described the item, but the buyer didn't want the item after receiving it.
The listing properly described the item, but the item didn't meet the buyer's expectations.
The item had minor scratches, but you listed it as used.

If photos of the item would be helpful for documenting the condition of the item you sold and shipped, click Add Photos. Both eBay Customer Service and the buyer will be able to see them. You can upload as many as 10 photos (PNG, JPEG, BMP, or GIF; max size 5MB). You can add photos until the return process is closed. Uploaded photos can be removed only by contacting Customer Service.

In the "old days" a scenario like this was easy to resolve quickly between seller and buyer -- don't like the colour, the fit, the style, the length, etc.? -- just return it and you'll get a refund. But then some sellers weren't refunding, hence the MBG and (on .com) the hassle-free returns.

greenmangoes · ‎09-02-2015

I guess it's probably not worth getting ebay involved but it appears to me that this may be buyers remorse.

In my listings I put the size of the clothes as well as manually measure the item and put the measurement in the description. I guess I'm thinking if buyers are still returning items because of size I may be wasting my time doing the manually measurement as well.

Thanks guys 🙂

You only fail when you don't try!

pierrelebel · ‎09-02-2015

"Should I just do the refund and not bother to point that out?"

My standard reply would be: "Dear buyer. I am truly sorry this item did not meet with your approval. Please return at your earliest convenience. A full refund will be processed through PayPal immediately upon receipt. Thank you."

A few weeks ago I had a British buyer who received his purchase (an old stamp) and was not happy with it. He found faults on the back side of the stamp and asked to return it for refund of the purchase price ($155). I agreed. He then asked that I also refund his return postage. I agreed. The stamp was returned and arrived Monday. I use the "send money" function on PayPal to pay his return postage (£1.33). I then used the eBay "cancel a transaction" function and eBay advised they would arrange for a refund through PayPal.

Within minutes, the PayPal refund had been processed, PayPal returned my fees, and eBay credited my account for FVF.

Two days later, despite the fact the item was unsatisfactory, no "default" appears on my account when checking on eBay.ca, global, or .uk.

tobyshitzu · ‎09-02-2015

Seller's listing offers returns, buyers pays return shipping. So seller has to abide by that regardless of reason for return. If the lsitings were "no returns", then the seller could say no and would win a claim where buyer messaged with a reason where they weren't claiming not as described

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2015

@mr.elmwood wrote:
What would you expect from a retailer when you went to return something? You would expect them to smile, nod, and give you your money back, wouldn't you?

Although I agree with you completely where a retail (B&M store) situation is concerned, eBay has always had to grapple with the problem of the buyer not being able to try on or examine the item -- clothing is notorious in this respect. Hence, they placed the onus on sellers to clearly and fully describe and photograph what they were selling, which was quite proper, considering buyers have to make a choice at a distance.

However, it took a while for eBay returns policy to catch up and deal with the problems on the buyer side. Until they brought in the policy of differentiating between a true INAD case and a case where the buyer simply didn't read what was there, sellers were pretty much obliged to refund even if their descriptions were impeccable.

It took eBay being willing to actually look at the messages between buyer and seller (as well as the description) and adjudicate cases based on what they could see. I think the returns process is fairer now to both buyer and seller than it was in the past. Now there is a reasonable expectation placed on the buyer to actually look at the description of what they are buying. Since we can't provide them with an opportunity to try on or handle the item, that seems to me a reasonable trade-off.

If you sell clothing and are careful to provide every possible sizing detail, you still always worry about the buyer who sees the photos, wants the item, and simply clicks the "Buy It Now" button.

Refunds of items sold by mail are a messy business at the best of times, relying on the good faith of both buyer and seller. At least we now have a bit more even-handedness on both sides. I don't think it's fair to expect an online seller who has meticulously described and photographed an item to fully refund someone who just didn't bother to pay attention to the available information.

Personally, because I am a "customer-friendly" seller, I had no problem with this sort of return/refund situation in the old days -- as long as the item was sent back, refund the buyer's money, what did it matter?

Unfortunately, from the point where eBay intervened in the whole process, it just got more complicated for the best sellers, who now face a d---d if you do (=defect), d----d if you don't (=unresolved case) decision in many return scenarios.

I liked it better on the honour system, but it's the old kindergarten story -- a few bad apples meant more stringent rules for everybody.

greenmangoes · ‎09-02-2015

toby**bleep**zu.

I didn't think we were allowed to say "no returns" in our listings? I'm sure I read it somewhere - am I incorrect?

Thanks

You only fail when you don't try!

greenmangoes · ‎09-02-2015

Why does it say bleep in the name - odd...

You only fail when you don't try!

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
The stamp was returned and arrived Monday. I use the "send money" function on PayPal to pay his return postage (£1.33). I then used the eBay "cancel a transaction" function and eBay advised they would arrange for a refund through PayPal. [...]

Two days later, despite the fact the item was unsatisfactory, no "default" appears on my account when checking on eBay.ca, global, or .uk.

Pierre, I'm wondering which site your item was listed on. Normally on .ca, a cancellation is not possible if the item has already been shipped to the buyer. I don't think the process you describe would be possible for the OP if she's listing on .ca.

Also, in such a situation, if the listing was on eBay.ca, a full refund would result in a defect unless the seller were able to demonstrate to eBay that the buyer was in error (i.e. win a returns case). From the .ca policy:

"Cancel a transaction

When you need to cancel a transaction, it's generally a good practice to first contact your buyer to let the buyer know you're canceling the transaction and why.

You can cancel a transaction:

Up to 30 days after the sale.
Even if your buyer has already paid for the item.

You won't be able to cancel a transaction if:

You've shipped the item.
The buyer has already opened a request because they didn't receive the item.
You have already opened an unpaid item case.

If there were multiple items in the purchase, you can only cancel the entire transaction, not individual items from the order."

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2015

@greenmangoes wrote:
Why does it say bleep in the name - odd...

The eBay "bots" don't understand that part of the name of a tiny lapdog isn't a 4-letter "bleep" word!

greenmangoes · ‎09-02-2015

Ohhh LOL

I just didn't want the poster to think I was swearing at them.

You only fail when you don't try!

pierrelebel · ‎09-02-2015

" I'm wondering which site your item was listed on."

The item was listed on eBay.cafr in Canadian dollars. # 371410868674

pocomocomputing · ‎09-02-2015

@greenmangoes wrote:
toby**bleep**zu.

I didn't think we were allowed to say "no returns" in our listings? I'm sure I read it somewhere - am I incorrect?

Thanks

No returns is allowed as an option in the Return Policy in the Sell form. What changed a few years back was that having a return policy was mandatory. Before that, you did not have to fill out any option under Return Policy in the Sell form. Some sellers missed the distinction between having to have a return policy as meaning no returns was not allowed.

More on Return Policy

We require all sellers on eBay to specify a return policy, whether the policy is to accept returns or not. We encourage you to offer a buyer-friendly return policy. A generous return policy can help you qualify for Top Rated Plus and attract more buyers. Accepting returns can also provide your buyers with a way to resolve concerns.

Above from eBay.ca Canada help -> http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/return-policy.html

PS Make it a habit to check both eBay.ca and eBay.com because sometimes the Canada help pages are not up to date. In this case, both pages appear to be the same.

eBay.com USA help -> http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/return-policy.html

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2015

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
Seller's listing offers returns, buyers pays return shipping. So seller has to abide by that regardless of reason for return. If the lsitings were "no returns", then the seller could say no and would win a claim where buyer messaged with a reason where they weren't claiming not as described

Yes, that is correct. I hadn't looked at the OP's return policy. If she's selling clothing, and she does want to offer returns generally, she could specify returns in case of seller error, but no returns in other circumstances, i.e. in case of size, colour or style issues, customer remorse, etc.

Still, I think that offering unconditional returns is a better idea. Items not fitting is part of the risk all clothing sellers have. It's just unfortunate that eBay has to give the OP a defect for providing good customer service in refunding happily.

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2015

@pierrelebel wrote:
" I'm wondering which site your item was listed on."

The item was listed on eBay.cafr in Canadian dollars. # 371410868674

Is it possible a loophole to this returns mess exists in the back processors on .cafr???

This is how it should be, in my opinion -- customer requests a refund, seller happily agrees (upon return of the item), seller can cancel the transaction, no defect, no muss, no fuss. Maybe eBay could learn something here.

This is not the way it normally works on .ca. You would not have been able to cancel a paid transaction in the first place. And you would most certainly have got a defect if you refunded the buyer in full (including original shipping). Did you split the refund between an eBay refund and a direct Paypal payment? (I'm not referring to your refund of the buyer's return shipping). That is one way of "tricking" the eBay system into believing the refund was partial, hence no defect.

All very odd....

pierrelebel · ‎09-02-2015

"Did you split the refund between an eBay refund and a direct Paypal payment? "

No. As stated earlier, eBay simply advised they would arrange the refund through PayPal. And they did just that.

My PayPal account shows a small debit for the postage, a large one matching the amount of the transaction (Cdn$ 155.50) and a small credit for the PayPal fees paid on the original payment. All exactly as it should be.

femmefan1946 · ‎09-02-2015

I guess it's probably not worth getting ebay involved but it appears to me that this may be buyers remorse.

It's never worth getting PP involved.

When the item gets back to you, refund the original payment using PP's Send Money rather than by the refund link on the original payment.

Your cancelled transaction then looks to eBay as if it was perfect. No possibility of a defect.

Put the eBay and PP transaction numbers in the text box of the Send Money instruction. If necessary, and it probably won't be, you can show that you did refund the buyer.

Going by your feedback you've made about 75 sales this year in a very tough category.

Every business will have unhappy customers. It is our job to limit the number and the impact.

BTW, I gather she has not opened any Dispute on this. Did she request her return shipping as well? That could be expensive.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-02-2015

There is some wrong information in this thread. Rather than refer to each post, I'll just try and do an overview here.

You said that the buyer wanted to return the item because it doesn't fit. If that is what they put as a return reason, it is a buyers remorse return and you will not receive a defect assuming that they went through the ebay return system and/or some other steps were followed. I'll assume that they went through the return system because that is probably the most straightforward.

You have a return policy so you cannot refuse the return so it is pointless to mention that the measurements were in the listing. You cannot have a return policy that says you allow returns only in you make a mistake. You either take returns or you don't. It is probably better to have a return policy because that might make it less likely for a buyer to claim nad. For example, if you didn't have a return policy, this buyer might have said there was something wrong with the item and there's really no way for you to prove that there isn't so you would likely end up paying return shipping and you would get a defect because it was a nad item.

You definitely do not want to ask ebay to step in because in most cases, the result does not end up in the sellers favor and in this situation, you take returns so there is no reason to.

The MBG is involved when there is a nad...not a buyers remorse situation and a 'doesn't fit' reason is considered buyers remorse. In that situation it is simply a return request. The buyer will have to enter a tracking number in the request when they send the item back. Once you receive the return, you refund and the transaction will be cancelled at the same time.