What can be done about non-paying bidders. I had another 5 this week. How can sellers be warned?

[barbaraannecupsandmore]

There has to be something that can be done about non- paying bidders, and some way to warn other sellers, Nn some of the best selling days of the year I had 5 items in limbo waiting for payments that never came, this is grossly unfair to sellers, and the buyers get off scot free. There is no way now that I can catch the ho;liday market in time.

[recped]

Fixed Price, Immediate Payment Required. There you go, problem solved.

As for "warning other sellers" no thanks, I don't think we need or could make use of your warnings.

[2014sportsterguy]

Very little really aside from our block list and prefferences.

[mdf_jersey]

As much as it is annoying and disappointing, there is really very little that can be done. Non paying buyers are out there and for now are not going away especially around this time of year.. Its part of selling on eBay. Get past it and carry on

[recped]

There is actually two things you can do......

1 - File UPI's every time you don't get paid, it might prompt a payment but if not you will get your fees back and the buyer gets a strike.

2 - In your site preferences block buyers with 2 or more non-payment strikes in the past 12 months.

If all sellers did this the numbers of non-payment situations would decrease dramatically. Fact is that if you run primarily Auctions (like me) you will get non-payers, that's just the way it is. If you can't handle that then do as I previously suggested.

[jt-libra]

I've had more than usual recently as well.  It seems that as soon as I close two, I open another, close that, open another.

I do, as much as possible or as much as I can afford, list as BIN's, but I sell in a category where the 50 free listings are for auction only.  So to list only BIN's isn't the answer for everyone.

I was thinking that some of the unpaid transactions may be attributable to the exchange rate right now.  Buyers who shop on .com don't see the converted amount when they make their purchase and then realize what it will cost them in Canadian dollars.  But, then, I think eBay invoices show U.S. dollars only so that throws my theory out the window.   It could be just the season, people doing more shopping, hitting the Buy button too quickly, or bidding at the last minute and then finding the item cheaper somewhere else.

It's a nuisance, alright, if you only have one of an item, but at least we get our fees back after 8 days.

[femmefan1946]

Remember that most sellers use Fixed Price rather than auction listings.

So for us, having bidders with UID Strikes automatically blocked is the only way we can avoid non-payers. Auction sellers are also protected.

And as recped says, this requires all sellers to cooperate with doing the UIDs and giving out those Strikes.

[2014sportsterguy]

I don't want to sound too cruel but l think if non paying bidders were sentenced by a judge to sell on EBay for a year would be a good sentence,though they may go a little crazy trying to keep with all the rules.

[jt-libra]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Remember that most sellers use Fixed Price rather than auction listings.

So for us, having bidders with UID Strikes automatically blocked is the only way we can avoid non-payers. Auction sellers are also protected.

And as recped says, this requires all sellers to cooperate with doing the UIDs and giving out those Strikes.

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It puzzles me why so many sellers don't file UID's, not only in an attempt to get these buyers out of our hair but to also get their FVF's back.  Can they really afford to lose those fees?

When I check my Buyer Requirements Activity Log, by far the number of unsuccessful bidders are individuals with too many unpaid item strikes ... the rest are buyers from countries I don't ship to.  Of course, they can always open another account, but I wonder how many know they can do that, or how to do it.

Right now, I have a dispute open against a buyer who, presumably, wanted to start fresh because she's a member of 10 years or so, but with zero feedback.  But she didn't pay.  I have another one open against a seller who has 15,000 feedback.   Surely, she's had non-paying buyers; you would think she would be the last person who would not pay herself.  Go figure!!

[rose-dee]

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@jt-libra wrote:

It puzzles me why so many sellers don't file UID's, not only in an attempt to get these buyers out of our hair but to also get their FVF's back.  Can they really afford to lose those fees?

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

And as recped says, this requires all sellers to cooperate with doing the UIDs and giving out those Strikes.

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I wonder if at least part of the reason for some sellers' reluctance to file UIDs is that they are actually concerned their buyers may pay, and then lash back in DSRs and FB for being forced into an unwanted transaction.  While non-paying buyers are a hassle for sellers, I think it might be wise to consider the other side of the equation.  

Now that eBay has made even neutral FB = defect, I think twice before being too quick to file a UID.  Actually, I don't do it anymore unless I get absolutely no response from a buyer after 10 days.  Otherwise, I send a message asking if they'd like to cancel.  If they say yes, then I do the cancellation on the basis of "buyer changed mind".  Everybody goes away happy.  

They can still leave FB of course, but they're more likely to be thrilled to be let off the hook than a buyer who is obligated to pay for something he/she doesn't want or realizes they can't afford.  In fact I've never had a cancellation buyer leave any FB or DSRs at all.  And if I feel it's warranted, I just block them after the fact, then relist the item. 

You may all laugh at this, but I actually turned one non-payer into a repeat customer.  My email to a non-payer usually says: "I see you haven't yet paid for this item.  Let me know if you'd like me to cancel the transaction for you, it's no problem.  I hope you'll visit my store again when circumstances change".  

Yes, perhaps some would say I'm letting a nasty, no-good scammer go scot free.  But look at it this way: there is no harm to either party (my item would be hung up until the resolution of a UID anyway), and as seller I have a better chance of avoiding a defect than by forcing the sale.  Ultimately I don't believe the level of deliberate non-payers is as high as some think.  I believe people can be foolish, or even impulsively stupid sometimes.  

Think of it from a (legitimate) buyer's point of view who has simply been foolish: you make a mistake, or get over-confident and don't check your Paypal account before making a purchase.  Would you feel better about coming back to eBay -- or to a particular seller -- if you're allowed to gracefully back out of a transaction, or if you're pushed into buying?  If you picked up an item in a B&M store, then changed your mind and wanted to put it back, would you react well if the store forced you to pay for it?  I don't think so.  

Lastly, I think many buyers are really just slow-payers, not non-payers.  I'm always happy to give people a bit more time to pay if they communicate with me.  How many UIDs might really be unnecessary if sellers were a little more patient?  Would you rather have a paying customer in 10 days, or a UID against a customer who hasn't paid in 5 days, then pays and decides that he/she was treated rather high-handedly?  

It's a matter of perspective I suppose.  In short, I don't subscribe generally to the theory that punishing non-paying (or slow-paying) buyers through UIDs will necessarily make things better for sellers.  

[pierrelebel]

"they are actually concerned their buyers may pay, and then lash back in DSRs and FB for being forced into an unwanted transaction."

Yes, unfortunately there is some paranoia among some sellers.

Selling on eBay is a business. 

[rose-dee]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

"they are actually concerned their buyers may pay, and then lash back in DSRs and FB for being forced into an unwanted transaction."

Yes, unfortunately there is some paranoia among some sellers.

Selling on eBay is a business. 

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Yes, Pierre, except that eBay has set most of the rules, policies and terms for our businesses.  I don't think it's paranoia to be cautious about accumulating defects and making customers feel good about coming to the site, even if they do make a foolish purchase they can't (or don't want to) pay for. 

In the end I think it's personal perspective on selling.  I don't believe the vast majority of people who buy on eBay are out to defraud sellers.  I'd rather make most of those who come to my store go away happy -- even if they don't make a purchase!  Anyone who has ever run a B&M store will relate to that philosophy.  

And I have no problem in letting a few nasty fish swim away if that's what it takes to keep selling without defects.  

[rose-dee]

I wanted to add that I see far too many sellers on eBay equate non-paying bidders/buyers with theft or fraud.  

I think eBay supported this attitude for many years by constantly reminding buyers that hitting the "Commit to Buy" button was a contract, and sellers began to feel that every purchase was a God-given right.  The cart checkout has remedied some of that problem, but there will always be slow/non-payers.  That's not the same as shoplifting.

It isn't theft unless the buyer has the item and the seller hasn't got the money.  Up until that point, the seller still has choices.  

[dawziecat]

I see this section of the forums seems heavily weighted to "professional" sellers or, as Pierre put it, "selling on ebay is a business."

Well, for me it never has been. I'm just an individual who has long absences from ebay entirely and then returns to sell a few, usually expensive personal items. This is one of those periods where I've returned.

Much (everything??) has changed.

Ebay, as I saw it, used to be a sort 'Craig's list, or Kijiji "on steroids. Now it is just a venue where "professional" sellers, with innumerable listings, use BIN in "storefronts."

Apparently this is working for them. Apparently also it is working for corporate ebay or it wouldn't be like this.

It is certainly not working for me.

For a period of time I lived in the US. In early 2013, I sold twenty or so different items from my US address. The items ranged in price up to $800 or so. Most were just a couple of hundred. I had lots of bidders. No shipping hassles and yes, I DID restrict my auctions to the continental US to avoid the inevitable "how much will it cost to ship it to me in Canada, France, Japan . . . etc." inquiries that cause much running around and usually no resulting bid.

It served me well even though the transition from a place for individuals to auction their used goods into just another commercial site for large sellers was well under way at that late date.

I am back in Canada for good. I have just completed two auctions. I screwed one up and, despite my intention to sell to Canada and the US, my listing was seen only by Canadians. It is amazing it sold but it did, at the starting price . . . way below what I had hoped to get. Hard lesson learned. The second auction, selling to Canada and the US, had no bidders at all and only two watchers. I canceled it in disgust.

It's just a fact of life I have to accept I guess. Ebay isn't what it was and is no longer of much use to me at all. It seems to me an opportunity exists to start up a site more akin to what ebay once was .  .  . a place for "the little guy" ro sell a few of his items to a national/international audience.

And as for selling inexpensive items . . . like the used DVD movies I used to sell . . . "fugedaboutit!" Canada Post has made that completely impossible!

[maggiebvintage2010]

Since eBay changed certain categories to auction only, I've had a huge increase in non-paying buyers within those categories.  I communicate with everyone after a sale.  My terms are 4 days.  At that  point, I send them a reminder and offer them a cancellation or an opportunity to contact me if they need more time.  I wait a few more days.  No one has ever taken me up on these offers, or in fact even replied to me.  The only result:  I have worked against myself by extending the time to open a dispute and get back my fees.  With one exception, there is no response to the dispute, and I wait the 4 days to recover my fees and relist.  I do have one regular who buys, doesn't pay, doesn't respond to my reminders, pays within 24 hours of a dispute being opened, and never leaves feedback.  There is probably a Freudian explanation for this behaviour.  I have had people who bought and immediately contacted me asking if they can make payment later, and I am happy to accommodate them, even though I wish they would have contacted me before bidding/buying.

In the new year, when I start listing again, I'm setting my parameters to automatically open a case for non-payers after 4 days.  IMHO, I've wasted my time and effort in an attempt to accommodate people who are not together enough to function well on a site like eBay.

By the way, the majority of these cases involved listings for sewing patterns and books made in auction-only free listing promotions.  They include newbies, old hands and sellers.  Which just goes to prove that anyone can be impulsive and irresponsible.

[2014sportsterguy]

Good post, it seems trying to sell on E bay is as easy as it is hard, If I were to start a company here I would not be the boss , who wants to start a company that bad buyers influence your ability to sell, the red tape is just not worth it for some, sure others OK but usually large sellers that get all the perks.

[jt-libra]

My experience and course of action is, or at least was, much like rose-dee and maggieb.  I've been courteous and patient, sending friendly notes reminding buyers that their payment has not yet been received ...  have they changed their mind? ...in which case I will be happy to issue a mutual cancellation.  Or, in the case of a new buyer, are they have trouble making payment?  I used to even give them a heads-up that, unfortunately, an UID would have to be opened and what that would mean for them.  Once in a long while, a buyer might respond, but I don't hear from 99% of them.

So, now, I'm not so accommodating.  I send a reminder invoice with a polite note, but if they aren't courteous enough to message back, even with a lame excuse as to why they want out, I open in 4 days and close as soon as I can.

[femmefan1946]

"The second auction, selling to Canada and the US, had no bidders at all and only two watchers. I canceled it in disgust."
As an occasional seller, you may have done yourself out of a sale.
Most bids arrive in the last few moments of an auction. Oddly this is also true of Fixed Price listings, which in my opinion, seem to sell at the beginning and the end of their 30-day Good Till Cancelled listing.
And then there are snipers, who days ago posted last second bids with a company, so they can bid at the very last nano-second, even if they are in the arms of Morpheus at that moment.
You may find that Fixed Price at the amount you want works better for your high value items. This has become the more common selling method and buyers seem to like the immediacy over the tension of an auction.

Since eBay changed certain categories to auction only,

Which categories are those?

I do have one regular who buys, doesn't pay,
Are you aware of the Blocked Bidder List? It’s under Manage Bidders on the Site Map.

BTW, in my opinion, if you can't make a profit while paying the listing fee of 5 to 30 cents, there is a larger problem with your business plan.  Either you are buying too high or pricing too low.

[pocomocomputing]

I just use the Unpaid Item assistant set to 8 days. I use 8 days because I have 7 days to pay as my terms and I use 7 days in case someone is shopping and wants to buy more than one item.

eBay sends a reminder invoice after 2 days automatically. This feature is part of the eBay "Manage Communications with buyers" in your site preferences. I would like this feature to be customizable so I can set it to 4 days to remind, in the middle of my 8 days before the assistant starts.

Now I usually let the automated process do its job. If the item is hard to sell (like I have listed it for 2 years, lol), I will send a couple of reminders hoping to sell the items. If the buyer is very low feedback, I will send a friendly reminder offering to help if needed in the payment process.

I get few non-payers and of the ones I have had, only remember 1 or 2 that paid before the Unpaid Item Assistant started a case. Of the cases started only 1 maybe 2 paid and no bad feedback or low DSRs left.

A couple of times, I was expecting to be paid, so I packaged up the item and put stamps on it (I use discount postage) so I could have it ready to be mailed Monday morning for fast shipping but the buyers did not pay until days later. Now I do this. I wait until paid before doing anything other than maybe finding the item and taking it out to be ready to mail. Sometimes I do not even do that.

I do not understand why so many unpaid today. I started selling 5+ years ago. In the first 3 years I do not recall any, maybe 1 happened. So few if any that I cannot remember it being a problem. But in the past 3 years since the Canada Post strike in June 2011, wow, so many.

What changed?

The eBay system? More confusing to buyer? My eBay has changed a lot in the past  3 years for buyers. Confuses them? Or the eBay cart system confuses buyers into thinking they bought an item?

Or buyers are more flaky?

The start of all the eBay Free listings 2-3 years ago?

Or is it the rise in mobile shopping and buyers on mobile devices click on buy and then read the listing properly on a work station.

I cannot see how someone can buy on a smartphone. So small, pictures, text, whatever. It would be interesting to know if mobile buyers (especially smartphones) account for a statistically significant increase in non-payers. Is it because the mobile buyers are young and irresponsible? Tablets like the iPad are nice to view eBay (well at least until eBay changed the eBay app significantly with an update recently). But on a smartphone? Maybe I am too used to PCs and bigger screens and the small smartphone screen is too different.

Or all of the above and more?

Whatever! Just part of the new eBay reality for selling on eBay today.

PS Sorry for the long post. Just a rambling bunch of thoughts.

[rose-dee]

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@pocomocomputing wrote:

It would be interesting to know if mobile buyers (especially smartphones) account for a statistically significant increase in non-payers. 

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That would be interesting information to have, although I can't see eBay ever letting us sellers know that sort of detail. 

I've had only 2 true non-paying buyers in the last couple of years that ended in UIDs - the rest have either paid after my reminder to them, or asked for a cancellation. The reason I know this is that I keep a file of any non-payments, as I think it's important to keep track of any trends.  As it turns out, for me there haven't been any trends at all (i.e. no uptick in non-payers over the last few months).  

Reading 'maggie's' post it occurred to me that it's possible this may be related to auction v. fixed price listings. I sell in some of the same categories, but very rarely via auction, and my non-paying buyer rate has always been very low.  I wonder if, generally speaking, people who bid on auction items are more likely not to pay?  

If so, why would that be?  The thrill of the chase gone sour?  Too little rational thinking and too much wishful thinking?  I don't know, but it seems to me that when you purchase a BIN item, you look at it carefully, consider the price and the shipping, then make a decision.  With auction items, sometimes the final price is not what you initially expected or hoped it would be.  

I have to admit that I've had this happen to me years ago on more than one occasion when I did a fair amount of buying on eBay, and when auctions were the general rule and bidding wars were rampant.  I got a few rude surprises that resulted from my own rash lapses of judgment in the last few seconds of an auction which allowed the price to get way out of my comfort zone (but I always paid, even if it stung!).  Maybe some people don't feel quite so committed these days.