Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

As part of our discussion on Handling Fees yesterday (which I claimed in my opening statement was the most divisive topic among ebay members) it was mentioned that Feedback -- specifically -- Who Should Leave Feedback First: Buyer or Seller? was, in fact, more hotly debated. (Here you go, recped!)

 

I have to agree. And a timely query.

 

My rate of Feedback Received stands at five of 20 within the past 90 days. That's one in four, or only 25 per cent of buyers leaving feedback for me. (Yes, this summer was unusually sloooooow for business.) In contrast, I leave feedback for buyers 100 per cent of time on shipment. I don't have it set up to leave feedback automatically on payment because I like to add personal touches myself such as saying 'thank you' in the buyer's natural language if they are overseas. Or 'welcome to eBay' if they are new. Or 'It was great to meet you' if they are a Local Pickup buyer. 

 

That being said, I have noticed what seems to me to be a correlation between Feedback Received and new sales which makes me think that having someone come to my profile to leave feedback boosts my Best Match relevancy for the next person coming along to browse. I have two feedbacks left for me this month which, I think, makes me look like a wallflower at the ball. 

 

As a concept, feedback is a hot topic. Buyers tend to think they deserve positive feedback for submitting payment when virtually any seller will agree that a transaction doesn't end until they know that the buyer won't contest it for some reason or another. Therefore, a seller may feel the buyer doesn't 'deserve' positive feedback until Day 59 Minute 59 after purchase. Oddly, there is no automatic setting which lets us leave those feedbacks en masse at that moment. What would it read? 'Great buyer, no troubles', I guess.

 

There are sellers who still argue they deserve the right to leave Negative feedback for buyers. 

 

There are buyers who don't think Negative feedback for a seller goes far enough and would be happy if ebay let them sue for poor product or service and then burn down their house for good measure. 

 

Personally, I think feedback for a buyer should not be rated the same as Feedback for a seller. I'd propose that Buyers get a blue dot and leave the greens, greys and reds for sellers. By all means, continue the recognition for buyers but it's silly to think that paying for something is an accomplishment equal to successfully pleasing the person who bought it. 

 

Asking for a Feedback revision is as pleasant as dental surgery without anaesthesia. (At least in my experience.)

 

Some members argue that feedback should be altogether abolished.

 

There is really no end to the discussion on feedback, is there?

 

For the record, here are some of the links from ebay on it (in no particular order of importance):

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/feedback-removal.html

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/services/forum/feedback.html?ssPageName=comm:f:f:CA

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/feedback/detailed-seller-ratings.html

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/tutorial/feedbacktutorial/intro.html

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/feedback/revise-feedback.html

 

http://pages.ebay.ca/services/forum/new.html

 

Please fell free to add others. I'm certain I missed a few.

 

What do you think about feedback? 

 

What policy do you follow for leaving feedback for buyers? What do you like or dislike? How would you improve the feedback system? In a perfect world, what if anything would you change? Have you had good or bad experiences with requests for revising defects and/or feedback removal by calling ebay Customer Service? Do you agree or disagree with the changes made to the Fall Seller Update in 2015 that eliminated Neutrals and Negatives as a source of seller defects?

 

The floor is yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

When I first started selling years ago as an university student, I leave feedback only AFTER the buyer leaves me one, and if their positive feedback says anything other than it being a good purchase, I leave a response to follow up because I'm ticked off by their feedback lol. I remember the first one I was upset about was a grandma who bought this pocket calendar I designed and left a feedback saying the calendar is smaller than she thought, and she gave me 4 stars for item description. I remember messaging her telling her that I have put the size of the calendar inside the description and it wasn't fair to me that she left me 4 stars just because she didn't see it lol etc etc, and she apologized... 

 

After a while, I can't remember when but it's probably when school got significantly busier, and I was also reading the discussion board a lot more often then, I changed my practice to leaving feedback AFTER I SHIPPED to indicate that the item is shipped and the shipped date. I still do the same thing now except I don't check My eBay page as often (work keeps me busy enough) to see who left feedback and who hasn't. I think my feedback return rate is about 50-80% depending on what was sold, and depending if the buyer is quite new (less than 10 feedback) or more seasoned. I find that new buyers don't really leave feedback and they are not the ones who'd cause me trouble either. The 4 INRs I received last year were all from buyers who have bought more than a few times on eBay. I also haven't had any non-paying buyers for a very long time, but my settings are also set to as strict as eBay allows because I hate to waste time dealing with it. 

 

None of the above changes the fact that my sales for the past few months are quite dead... with less than ten sales per month since April, and only two sales this month (Sept 2015 I had 33 sales), I don't think I'd be able to keep my TRS for very long... I had a very good winter last year though so fingers crossed that it would pick up again soon... I probably should update my inventory and add new books but then I'm back to school again while working full time and school is more important Smiley Sad

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

As a seller I view leaving FB as part of my job and the final step to be completed when processing an item.

 

I have followed femme's example and include the shipping date.  I've also added colour to the FB I leave because it's very convenient when a buyer asks when I shipped or if I want to see if I've sold to someone in the past.

 

I can pick out the FB I left at a  glance.

 

It's not part of a buyer's job to leave FB.  It's something that some buyers do as a courtesy and that's OK if they choose to do so.

 

In many ways asking who should leave FB first is a moot point.  Most sellers simply do not leave FB for buyers until and unless the buyer has done so first.  However, when a seller does so I give them a little mental check or star because it shows that the seller is considerate and polite.  It's nice because it increases the count and that's handy when I sell with one of my buying ids.

 

I also get just a tiny bit annoyed and lose a little respect when a seller leaves FB only after I do.  I'd think more of those sellers if they didn't leave FB at all because playing that little game seems so petty and small to me.

 

 

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?


@sylviebee wrote:

As a seller I view leaving FB as part of my job and the final step to be completed when processing an item.

 

I have followed femme's example and include the shipping date.  I've also added colour to the FB I leave because it's very convenient when a buyer asks when I shipped or if I want to see if I've sold to someone in the past.

 

I can pick out the FB I left at a  glance.

 

It's not part of a buyer's job to leave FB.  It's something that some buyers do as a courtesy and that's OK if they choose to do so.

 

In many ways asking who should leave FB first is a moot point.  Most sellers simply do not leave FB for buyers until and unless the buyer has done so first.  However, when a seller does so I give them a little mental check or star because it shows that the seller is considerate and polite.  It's nice because it increases the count and that's handy when I sell with one of my buying ids.

 

I also get just a tiny bit annoyed and lose a little respect when a seller leaves FB only after I do.  I'd think more of those sellers if they didn't leave FB at all because playing that little game seems so petty and small to me.

 

 


Buyers are considered to have earned their feedback after paying. That completes their entire obligation to the seller.

 

I'm betting that most buyers do not give a rip about FB anymore.

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Message 23 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

As others, I leave feedback as soon as I ship. It's just part of my process; I click on the transaction number to get to the page with all the transaction details. I then click the checkbox for "Item Shipped", it fills in with today's date, then I hit the "Leave Feedback" button and select one of the choices from the dropdown menu.

 

I never understood why some sellers manually enter the date they shipped in the feedback they leave. I'd have to imagine most sellers will never even see it (there is no notification when you receive a feedback). Plus, the buyers do get a notification when you ship, and the ship date is already saved in their "Purchase History". Seems unnecessary to me, but perhaps I'm missing something.

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?


@i.am.vivian wrote:

A seller's total transaction number IS visible.  Its the FB Left For Others, if the seller leaves FB first.  If the seller wants people to see the total number of transactions than the seller needs to leave FB first.  


Oh yes, I know, but what I meant was displaying the total transaction count up front, as part of the seller ID, so that a buyer will see it in search results as well as on individual listings.  

 

Although I agree with you that the transaction count itself gives a buyer little real information, I think it does at least signal experience, and perhaps also good service if combined with the display of "100%" positive FB.  

 

Years ago I'd wait until I knew a transaction was closed, i.e. that the buyer had received the item and was apparently satisfied, before leaving FB, but that was in the days when both parties could leave any FB they wished, and eBay had no rules regarding INRs, SNAD, returns, etc.  Then, a seller was able to deal directly with the buyer over any issues, but now there is little point in not leaving immediate FB once a buyer pays for an item.  

 

I think this subject is no longer controversial simply because eBay policies have changed so much and because so few buyers bother with FB anymore.  The FB rate from buyers has really dropped off in the past year. 

 

While the FB comments I have are still meaningful to me as an indicator to my buyers that they can expect good service, the FB a smaller seller does receive can look pretty stale.  Once it gets to the point where the most recent FB comment is a month old, I doubt its value, both as a current statement and as a reflection of how many sales the seller has actually handled. 

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?


@dinomitesales wrote:

 

I never understood why some sellers manually enter the date they shipped in the feedback they leave. I'd have to imagine most sellers will never even see it (there is no notification when you receive a feedback). Plus, the buyers do get a notification when you ship, and the ship date is already saved in their "Purchase History". Seems unnecessary to me, but perhaps I'm missing something.


I agree -- this may have been useful before eBay automated its transaction history system, but now I'd say it's rather pointless.  

 

I think a seller might as well use all the character space available in FB to say something particularly nice about the buyer or the transaction that the buyer (or other buyers) might take notice of.  In this respect I've always felt that my "Feedback Left for Others" is as important in terms of buyer confidence as the FB I receive.

Message 26 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

Achieving the coloured stars and Feedback as a Seller is handwringing for new members selling as we've all seen. 

 

 

Since a seller can leave feedback 100 per cent of the time and only gain it in return 15 per cent of the time, what more can one do to solicit feedback from buyers? You cannot bribe them with promises of sweet nothings whispered in their ears. 

 

Maybe the Feedback system should be revamped to show total transactions as opposed to merely Feedback Received. 

Message 27 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?


@mjwl2006 wrote:

 

 

Maybe the Feedback system should be revamped to show total transactions as opposed to merely Feedback Received. 


Yes, that's precisely what I was suggesting earlier in this thread, provided that the total was displayed everywhere with the seller's ID, i.e. attached to it the way the FB score currently is.  We might as well get some recognition for all those years of putting up with eBay's rules. 

Message 28 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

It would be a better measure of a seller's experience, for certain. Anyone who wanted to read the comments associated with feedback could still do so. Let's lobby for a change like this since Feedback Received as a Seller isn't being gained like it once was.
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?


@mjwl2006 wrote:

Achieving the coloured stars and Feedback as a Seller is handwringing for new members selling as we've all seen. 

 

 

Since a seller can leave feedback 100 per cent of the time and only gain it in return 15 per cent of the time, what more can one do to solicit feedback from buyers? You cannot bribe them with promises of sweet nothings whispered in their ears. 

 

Maybe the Feedback system should be revamped to show total transactions as opposed to merely Feedback Received. 


I have been saying that for a year and a half.

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Message 30 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

Perhaps the time then has come to formally organize that suggestion.
Message 31 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

When I started selling I was pretty inconsistent about leaving feedback since I didn't have a routine and I would want to wait for the item to be received to ensure there were no problems before I would leave feedback, so usually the buyer was first. Now I'm in the habit of leaving it at the same time as I mark the item shipped. I too like to personalize it so I don't use the automated feature. I agree that there's an asymmetry in the meaning it holds for a seller vs a buyer.

 

I agree that it's a system that's outlived its usefulness beyond a very basic level. Past a certain quantity, it's mostly a social nicety and a pleasantry between ebay users. The personal touch is a big part of why we love ebay but that can be expressed in many ways other than just feedback.

 

I'm sure when ebay evaluates what to do with the feedback system going forward, it's not just in terms of what it means to its own users, but how it compares to the rating and review systems used by other marketplaces. ebay was probably the first and biggest website to establish a user rating system that is now ubiquitous not just for marketplaces but the internet as a whole (Facebook likes, Twitter retweets, Reddit, comment sections, etc.).

 

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

Do we agree that it's time to propose eBay alter its feedback system to accurately reflect our current realities? If so, I'll compile a proposal to put forth for member endorsement on the various English-language ebays. Sometimes those endeavors affect eventual change. 

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

its good to have it .My opinion.
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

I believe that FB is slowly disappearing but extinguishing it completely all at once would be a shock to the eBay system.  For that reason who leaves FB first is a moot question.

 

The main función of FB is Public Shaming.

 

That's something that is currently getting a lot of media attention and I don't think that eBay FB can survive the scrutiny.

 

 

Message 35 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

Originally in the early days, I left feedback after the buyer left me feedback because I subscribed to the idea that the transaction was complete when the buyer had the item and everything was good. ie normally I left feedback after the buyer left if for me first.

 

When ebay abolished sellers ability to leave anything except a positive feedback, there was no reason to wait anymore so I converted to leaving feedback at shipping time, and came to subscribe to the idea that the seller going first and leaving positive would increase the likelihood of a reciprocal positive feedback.

 

My current process:

-I leave feedback after item is shipped

-feedback is customized based on the buying situation

      -new buyers get different feedback from repeat buyers,

      -regular repeat buyers get different feedback from once in a while repeat buyers

-buyer gets a customized ebay message from me after item is shipped

      -message includes date of shipping (and some countries I put an addendum to expect a long wait time)

      -new buyers get a different message (see (1)) from repeat buyers (see (2))

-new buyers get an insert included in their package, *see (3) Repeat buyers do not get this.

 

 

(those who have really good memories will recall that some of you out there helped me create these "international" wordings that translate well into other languages a couple years ago)

 

(1) Ebay message for new buyer:

Thank you for your purchase and quick payment.  Your parcel has been shipped out today, Monday XXXXXXX.  Once the parcel arrives, I hope you will find everything satisfactory.  If you are not completely pleased with this transaction, please contact me via email.  I will do my very best to resolve any problem you may have.  Regards, RICARMIC (Ron)

 

(2) Ebay message for repeat buyer:

Thank you for your most recent purchase and quick payment. I am pleased you decided to purchase from me again. Your parcel has been shipped out today, Monday XXXXXX. Regards, RICARMIC (Ron)

 

 

(3) Special insert included in package for new buyers:

THX again for your purchase!

 

Because I stand behind what I sell, and I would like you to purchase from me again, if there are aspects of this transaction that you are unhappy with, please send me an email message to let me know so I can work with you to resolve it!

 

Have a great day!

RICARMIC

Message 36 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

I've done (and do) very similar things as you, i.e. I now leave FB for the buyer upon shipping the item and always include an insert card with thanks and an invitation to contact me if there are any questions or issues (along with some promotional details).  Yet FB response by buyers has dropped off the cliff over the past few months. 

 

For a while, I tried leaving FB for buyers at or around the time I thought their parcel would arrive, in the hope that this might encourage them to remember to leave FB.  That had no effect on FB response levels either, so I've gone back once again to just leaving FB upon shipping, more as a courtesy than anything else.  

 

Although I still regard my buyers' FB as reflective of the good service buyers can expect of me, the fact is that the less there is of it, and the less current it is, unfortunately the less relevant it's becoming. 

 

 

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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?


@mjwl2006 wrote:

Do we agree that it's time to propose eBay alter its feedback system to accurately reflect our current realities? If so, I'll compile a proposal to put forth for member endorsement on the various English-language ebays. Sometimes those endeavors affect eventual change. 


Although I'm all for lobbying institutions (like governments) whose raison d'être is ostensibly to serve people, or corporations whose main focus is their user base, I really don't think that lobbying or petitioning eBay on this particular subject will have an effect.  Sometimes one has to recognize the relative futility of a target, or at least the relatively poor input-to-results potential of a target.  This is a company that has a history of doing whatever it pleases, whenever it pleases, driven by shareholder demands, not by the needs or wishes of its users/subscribers.  

 

In any event, from a purely practical point of view, it would likely involve an enormous amount of programmers' time, and therefore money, for eBay to undertake a major retooling (or removal) of the FB system.  

 

Tweaking the FB system is one thing (which they've occasionally done), but removing or heavily altering this Hydra, which has grown so many heads and tentacles since eBay's inception, would be quite another.  And really, to what end now?  So few buyers use it anymore, and aside from its residual importance to sellers as a badge of good service, I expect most sellers now see leaving FB as more or less just another chore, since it is no longer linked to seller punishment by eBay. 

 

So, if you'll permit me to mix metaphors, I think this particular monster eBay created so long ago has become a bit of a useless appendage through attrition that wouldn't be simple, easy, or cheap to amputate.  EBay won't even spend the money necessary to create a properly functioning, seamless checkout system across its sites so I find it hard to imagine they'd want to invest any time or money in what is basically a moribund system.  

 

I suspect one day you'll just see FB quietly shuffled off to some dusty corner of the site, with live links removed, where nobody can find it anyway.

 

Our energies might be better spent on something eBay is more invested in and concerned about currently, like the Product Catalogue for example, which as I understand it (although I don't need to use it), is a living nightmare. 

Message 38 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?

I have been hollering about the insufficiencies in the Product Catalogue since it was first announced. I can't see that it's done any good whatsoever.
Message 39 of 40
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Who Leaves FEEDBACK First: Buyer or Seller?


@mjwl2006 wrote:
I have been hollering about the insufficiencies in the Product Catalogue since it was first announced. I can't see that it's done any good whatsoever.

I think perhaps you've made my point about eBay's responsiveness to subscriber demands.  Although who knows -- if you could mobilize thousands of U.S. sellers and a few giant Chinese ones to push eBay you might have a chance.  Better still, find a few cocktail parties attended by big eBay shareholders and put the bug in their ears.  

 

Just joking really, although I know the reality for the ordinary seller isn't funny at all.  Where eBay is concerned, I've realized over the years that resistance is futile...

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