Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

GSP is currently an eBay.com USA seller program. It is coming to eBay UK.

 

What if it came to eBay.ca Canada? Would it help a Canadian seller?

 

Shipping rates outside of Canada to the USA and world are very high using Canada Post. For items under 1 kg, Small Packet Air can be used but no tracking and no insurance and the rate is high when you get to 1 kg packages. Tracked Packet offers the insurance and tracking to some countries but rates are very high. Over 1 kg, then you have to use Xpresspost or International Parcel Air and rates are very high.

 

If GSP was offered to Canadian sellers, a seller in most locations in Canada could ship items using Expedited Parcel to a shipping center in a central location (Toronto most likely) with PayPal shipping discount for under $20 for 2-3 kg. The buyer would be paying the GSP shipping cost out of country and most likely it would be cheaper than shipping direct using Canada Post high rates.

 

Buyer would have to pay duty (most likely not applicable) and sales tax (VAT).

 

Adding up all of the charges for GSP method to the buyer and GSP might be cheaper for the buyer???

 

It seems to me that a Canadian GSP might be a reasonable option for Canadian sellers.

 

Shipping to the USA might even be cheaper for heavy bulky items since their duty exemption is $200. Europe has lower duty exemption of 23 euro or so.

 

Comments and thoughts?

 

To the forum moderators: Do not merge with the two mega topics on the GSP. This is about a Canadian seller GSP program, not the existing eBay.com USA GSP program.

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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

tobyshitzu
Community Member

Yes and no

 

Yes it could be, essentially a "chit chat express" where you mail stuff to the remailer.  With the rates they offer a lot of things could work out well. 

 

But no, not likely with ebay involved, as ebay would keep too much of the money like they are with the paypal labels

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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?


@mr.elmwood wrote:
I do not see it coming to a country near us. Canada is far too tiny of a market for them to invest infrastructure in. I am still waiting for paypal.ca that I was promised eight (8) years ago.

Prices to Americans would go up, not down. GSP would suddenly start collecting local and state taxes that up until now have not been collected.

US buyers would not be getting charged local or State taxes. US Customs does not have any authority or process agreements in place to collect State taxes and due to the separation of State and Federal powers this isn't likely to change anytime soon.

 

My response to the OP, a GSP type program for Canada would be pretty pointless, most Canadian sellers already offer their goods internationally and the whole point of GSP is to stimulate cross-border trade. The US and the UK are the two territories that for a myriad (of mostly silly) reasons sellers are extremely hesitant to offer their goods to buyers outside their own country. The UK in particular is the most baffling as many sellers there won't even ship within the EU which has essentially no customs or taxation issues.

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.

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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

"Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?"

 

Yes, it could be helpful for many overseas transactions where shipping costs through Canada are too high.

 

However, it will not happen since the volume of business is not there.

 

It is profitable for Pitney Bowes from the USA because of the large volume being handled daily.

 

From Canada, excluding Letterpost, Light Packet and Small Packets and shipments to the USA, the volume would be a very small fraction, not worth it for Pitmey Bowes or any consolidator.  Also keep in mind that the cost of shipping a parcel domestically to a central warehouse in Toronto for overseas redistribution is much higher than for American sellers within the USA.

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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

tobyshitzu
Community Member

Yes and no

 

Yes it could be, essentially a "chit chat express" where you mail stuff to the remailer.  With the rates they offer a lot of things could work out well. 

 

But no, not likely with ebay involved, as ebay would keep too much of the money like they are with the paypal labels

Message 2 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

I do not see it coming to a country near us. Canada is far too tiny of a market for them to invest infrastructure in. I am still waiting for paypal.ca that I was promised eight (8) years ago.

Prices to Americans would go up, not down. GSP would suddenly start collecting local and state taxes that up until now have not been collected.
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Message 3 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?


@mr.elmwood wrote:
I do not see it coming to a country near us. Canada is far too tiny of a market for them to invest infrastructure in. I am still waiting for paypal.ca that I was promised eight (8) years ago.

Prices to Americans would go up, not down. GSP would suddenly start collecting local and state taxes that up until now have not been collected.

US buyers would not be getting charged local or State taxes. US Customs does not have any authority or process agreements in place to collect State taxes and due to the separation of State and Federal powers this isn't likely to change anytime soon.

 

My response to the OP, a GSP type program for Canada would be pretty pointless, most Canadian sellers already offer their goods internationally and the whole point of GSP is to stimulate cross-border trade. The US and the UK are the two territories that for a myriad (of mostly silly) reasons sellers are extremely hesitant to offer their goods to buyers outside their own country. The UK in particular is the most baffling as many sellers there won't even ship within the EU which has essentially no customs or taxation issues.

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 4 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

"Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?"

 

NO.

Message 5 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?


@recped wrote:

@mr.elmwood wrote:
I do not see it coming to a country near us. Canada is far too tiny of a market for them to invest infrastructure in. I am still waiting for paypal.ca that I was promised eight (8) years ago.

Prices to Americans would go up, not down. GSP would suddenly start collecting local and state taxes that up until now have not been collected.

US buyers would not be getting charged local or State taxes. US Customs does not have any authority or process agreements in place to collect State taxes and due to the separation of State and Federal powers this isn't likely to change anytime soon.

 

My response to the OP, a GSP type program for Canada would be pretty pointless, most Canadian sellers already offer their goods internationally and the whole point of GSP is to stimulate cross-border trade. The US and the UK are the two territories that for a myriad (of mostly silly) reasons sellers are extremely hesitant to offer their goods to buyers outside their own country. The UK in particular is the most baffling as many sellers there won't even ship within the EU which has essentially no customs or taxation issues.

 

 


I understand all of that, however, how and why is it that Pitney Bowes, in the USA, is collecting PST on GSP sales to Canada?  One would think the reverse would be true, PB in Canada collecting state and local taxes, hence my remark.

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Message 6 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?


@recped wrote:

@mr.elmwood wrote:
I do not see it coming to a country near us. Canada is far too tiny of a market for them to invest infrastructure in. I am still waiting for paypal.ca that I was promised eight (8) years ago.

Prices to Americans would go up, not down. GSP would suddenly start collecting local and state taxes that up until now have not been collected.

US buyers would not be getting charged local or State taxes. US Customs does not have any authority or process agreements in place to collect State taxes and due to the separation of State and Federal powers this isn't likely to change anytime soon.

 

My response to the OP, a GSP type program for Canada would be pretty pointless, most Canadian sellers already offer their goods internationally and the whole point of GSP is to stimulate cross-border trade. The US and the UK are the two territories that for a myriad (of mostly silly) reasons sellers are extremely hesitant to offer their goods to buyers outside their own country. The UK in particular is the most baffling as many sellers there won't even ship within the EU which has essentially no customs or taxation issues.

 

 


Very true, most sellers here already to sell internationally so a gsp program here is unlikely to increase sales.

 

Any idea why they included this portion in the .ca user agreement update?

 

Cross-Border Trade. We updated this section to underscore that for eligible listings for which you have not previously specified an international shipping option, buyers from select countries may be shown an international shipping option

Message 7 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

"

Any idea why they included this portion in the .ca user agreement update?

 

Cross-Border Trade. We updated this section to underscore that for eligible listings for which you have not previously specified an international shipping option, buyers from select countries may be shown an international shipping option."

 

Looks like laying the foundation for the .com style implementation.   The only way a Canadian GSP would be useful is if it provided lower shipping rates internationally, and that would require Pitney-Bowes sharing very huge corporate discounted mailing rates which still gave room for their fees.  The shipping rates internationally are so high now, that maybe there is room but I would not expect it to happen. 

 

 

Message 8 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?


@mr.elmwood wrote:

@recped wrote:

@mr.elmwood wrote:
I do not see it coming to a country near us. Canada is far too tiny of a market for them to invest infrastructure in. I am still waiting for paypal.ca that I was promised eight (8) years ago.

Prices to Americans would go up, not down. GSP would suddenly start collecting local and state taxes that up until now have not been collected.

US buyers would not be getting charged local or State taxes. US Customs does not have any authority or process agreements in place to collect State taxes and due to the separation of State and Federal powers this isn't likely to change anytime soon.

 

My response to the OP, a GSP type program for Canada would be pretty pointless, most Canadian sellers already offer their goods internationally and the whole point of GSP is to stimulate cross-border trade. The US and the UK are the two territories that for a myriad (of mostly silly) reasons sellers are extremely hesitant to offer their goods to buyers outside their own country. The UK in particular is the most baffling as many sellers there won't even ship within the EU which has essentially no customs or taxation issues.

 

 


I understand all of that, however, how and why is it that Pitney Bowes, in the USA, is collecting PST on GSP sales to Canada?  One would think the reverse would be true, PB in Canada collecting state and local taxes, hence my remark.


Simple, because most Canadian provinces no longer have Provincial Sales Tax and for those that do there have been agreements in place between the provinces and Canada Customs for almost 30 years that authorize Canada Customs to collect PST on behalf of the provinces.

 

There was a time when this was not true which meant that buying from the US (or elsewhere) was a method of avoiding PST (but not FST and/or duty).

 

FYI - FST was the hidden Federal Sales Tax applied at the wholesale level or the importation level, it was eliminated at the time of the introduction of GST in 1991.

 

 

 

The day will come when the USA will move to a national value added consumption tax, they are one of the few remaining countries that do not have such a system but it's an extremely slow process given the politics of relations between federal and state governments. It might even require an amendment to the US constitution and even though economically it makes perfect sense there will be an immense legal battle to be fought before it will ever happen. The bickering over the so-called "internet tax" has been going on for years in spite of such simple and easy solutions, if that is ever settled then it will to an extent clear the way for a Federal VAT. My guess is that it won't happen until the 2030's at the earliest.

 

 

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 9 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

@recped wrote:

@mr.elmwood wrote:
I do not see it coming to a country near us. Canada is far too tiny of a market for them to invest infrastructure in. I am still waiting for paypal.ca that I was promised eight (8) years ago.

Prices to Americans would go up, not down. GSP would suddenly start collecting local and state taxes that up until now have not been collected.

US buyers would not be getting charged local or State taxes. US Customs does not have any authority or process agreements in place to collect State taxes and due to the separation of State and Federal powers this isn't likely to change anytime soon.

 

My response to the OP, a GSP type program for Canada would be pretty pointless, most Canadian sellers already offer their goods internationally and the whole point of GSP is to stimulate cross-border trade. The US and the UK are the two territories that for a myriad (of mostly silly) reasons sellers are extremely hesitant to offer their goods to buyers outside their own country. The UK in particular is the most baffling as many sellers there won't even ship within the EU which has essentially no customs or taxation issues.

 

 


Very true, most sellers here already to sell internationally so a gsp program here is unlikely to increase sales.

 

Any idea why they included this portion in the .ca user agreement update?

 

Cross-Border Trade. We updated this section to underscore that for eligible listings for which you have not previously specified an international shipping option, buyers from select countries may be shown an international shipping option


My guess....the legal department wrote up the US change and then converted it essentially word for word to the Canadian UA.

 

I can see Pitney-Bowes setting up an International mail service from Canada as already exist. There are already a number of offshore postal services operating in Canada (mostly through sub-agents), Deutche Post, Royal Mail, Belgian Post and others already operate here and are actively scooping international mail that was traditionally handled by Canada Post. These services do not include customs clearance services like the GSP program does but they do offer much lower rates than those offered by Canada Post.

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 10 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

If the intent was to ship in an effective, lower cost than Canada Post, manner to the US.... then items should show up in several large cities in Canada,  and then go directly south to the US...

 

Much of this is already happening in Canada....

 

If not like a company as noted for the Toronto area....   then by individual sellers straight south to the US.

 

In Winnipeg, there are several eBay sellers that sell enough for it to be profitable to deliver to a point in North Dakota and access the US Postal System.

 

There are also large sellers of books  that take purchases directly south  in order to use the media mail option with USPS.

 

 

There is also one major bookseller... who sells on eBay  and elsewhere...  who has used an option where all of the purchases... to Europe as an example...  go as one big "parcel" to Europe  and are then sent to the destination using the local postal systems....

 

-----------------------------------------

 

This indicates that many Canadian sellers, both on and off eBay already have the equivalent of a GSP program....  and at less cost than would be available with a GSP....

 

and one thing Canadian are good at is finding the least cost way to do it.....

 

and if GSP showed up i Canada.... I would suspect it would be ignored... unlike the US where many sellers do not understand international shipping... or...  the implications... the cost... of GSP

 

 

Message 11 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

Many Canadian buyers in Manitoba... do have items shipped to a US address in Pembina North Dakota.

 

Small items are then mailed to a Canadian destination.

 

People will travel south and pick up those large and very large items.... 

 

These were all purchases from sellers who do not ship to Canada.

 

That business in Pembina North Dakota was presented in an article our local newspaper......  and intended to expand to a local store...  as opposed to their garage  at a residence.

 

Never underestimate the ability of a Canadian to find a way to make it happen....

 

 

Message 12 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

tch_ca
Community Member

KEEP THE GSP PROGRAM OUT OF CANADA. It's an absolute rip off and I no longer buy from US vendors that use it.

Message 13 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

My view is that the GSP would, at least for smaller Canadian sellers, adversely affect sales to the U.S. unless a way could be found to make it both cheaper and more efficient than existing services to the U.S.  In my view, those services are fast and fairly reasonable, with options that aren't available internationally. 

 

I would think that U.S. buyers make up the bulk of many Canadian eBay sellers' customers.  My experience with buying through the GSP from U.S. sellers was that that service was slower overall.  Although Americans have a much bigger personal import allowance than we do, and therefore duties/taxes would only be an issue for more costly items, I think any additional delays in shipping as a result of a 2-step shipping programme would be unacceptable to a lot of US buyers, and might be the killer for Canadian sellers.

 

The other point (mentioned above) is that Canadian sellers are already fairly savvy where international shipping is concerned.  They're used to dealing with it and don't really need a pre-digested service.  The market where it might make a difference would be outside the U.S., but how many sellers see the majority of their sales outside the US?

 

My main objection would be that, once again, Pitney-Bowes (and likely eBay) would be skimming money off the top every day eBay was in business. 

 

Still, I do agree with 'recped' that a scenario is conceivable where one programme or company comes to dominate international shipping, especially smaller value, small parcel shipping.  There is a gap to be filled, and many individual postal systems struggling to keep afloat. Maybe P-B wants to be that player? 

Message 14 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?


@pierrelebel wrote:

"Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?"

 

NO.


Seconded.

Message 15 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

tobyshitzu
Community Member

What kind of volume are we looking at to use DHL?   Its attractive but my USA volume has gotten pretty low.  I'd be very interested if DHl could match chitchat overseas

Message 16 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

Anonymous
Not applicable

Oh NO!  Absolutely NOT!!  As a seller (I am in Canada), I prefer to pack them myself and ship them directly to my buyers.  I don't want anyone like GSP (Whoever work at the HUB through GSP are so horrible about to ensure to open and pack them with care!!) to open to "inspect" and then re-pack them poorly which happened too often for my packages.  Nearly all of the packages I received through GSP are damaged!

 

I wouldn't want to upset my buyers like that! 

 

Actually I still think eBay really need to "retire" GSP and I am amazed that eBay still don't do anything after all those over 500 pages of rants, vents, complaints about GSP. 

 

eBay have fantastic deal to US sellers like E-Delcon via eBay Shipping with tracking numbers, very reasonable postage rates, far much better than what GSP offers, yet too many US sellers don't know about E-Delcon!  I had to ask them if they would consider to opt out of GSP and use E-Delcon and many of them were delighted to do as they want to make their buyers happy with reasonable postage rates and at the same time they can ship them directly to their buyers not through GSP (causing too much damages).

 

GSP may be good for sellers that sell large, very expensive items but not for many of US sellers like small items such as trading cards, photos, magazines, light stuffs, etc.  GSP for those items are worthless and way too expensive.

 

Again, NO way for GSP to be offered to Canada, period!  I rather stick with Canada Post than using GSP at any time!  Yes Canada Post can be expensive but at least I can use PayPal Shipping and can ship my items directly and with its original protections unlike GSP (often removing the protection to save a few $$$ for themselves which I found out from a few sellers that were shocked when they found out that some protections were removed from the original packaging at the hub!).

 

GSP through eBay is all about getting $$$ for whoever benefit and it is a scam, especially with the so-called import charges!! 

 

I have send many packages that are valued at $100.00 or more to USA, not one have been dinged for the import charges for the US buyers!  So it is a joke that we are forced by eBay to pay the so-called import charges to US sellers with GSP.  They even charges the import charges for under $19.99 when in fact it shouldn't be!!  It is purely a scam for whoever through GSP.

 

Message 17 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

your buyers don't get dinged import charges on your $100 items because there is nothing to be charged, as there wouldn't be if there was a gsp.  The only reason gsp to Canada is expensive is because of the tax dodge that usually happens by post

Message 18 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

Read up on Global Shipping Program.  You obviously don't understand the concept.  My the Almighty save and protect us from such a program!

Message 19 of 31
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Would a GSP program for seller in Canada be helpful?

GSP was brought in to force Americans to sell internationally, no other reason. Canadians already sell internationally.

Americans have an inbred belief in protectionism and isolationist policies. If they could, they would live totally within their 48 states, and yes, to many Americans that is all there is.
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