eBay

raphael@ebay.com · ‎08-30-2016

Hello Canadian sellers,

Today we have published the details of the 2016 Fall Seller Update. You can read the details here, and use this thread for any questions. I'll do my best to reply as time permits.

Thanks!

dutchman48 · ‎09-01-2016

Have you tried editing them in Turbo Lister and then reposting?

TL is not directly connected to all the other junk Ebay is trying to pawn off on people.

It may be worth it to get your listings edited.

momcqueen · ‎09-01-2016

That is a good suggestion and I have not. Unfortunately, I am a Mac user and I am told that Turbo lister is not compatible. I would certainly try it otherwise.

I can sort of workaround it if I create dummy temporary duplicate listings and then copy and paste the original work back on top of the item specifics the Product Catalogue wrecks but it is very confusing to do and also very time-consuming.

It shouldn't have to be this way.

All I'm asking is if they could reel this ugly thing back until they fix it so I can continue working with my listings the way they are. How is that too much to ask?!?

What would happen if the fatally flawed Product Catalogue overwrote my item specifics data when my back was turned and a buyer made a purchase at that point, expecting something that does not exist? They would win a SNAD absolutely and they should but it would NOT be my fault. I cannot control what is being added to my listings for which I am solely accountable. Would ebay have my back? Or would I get the defect? Let me guess.

I created another new thread about this http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Product-Catalogue-cards/td-p/349511 with some more examples of where it is wrong. I can't be the only seller affected. I notice other sellers with Hot Wheels pretend the UPC does not exist. I guess I could also try that for now.

dutchman48 · ‎09-01-2016

Buy yourself a cheap windows laptop. It is cheaper than all the aggravation you are going through and still not accomplishing much.

Ebay fixes nothing and just keeps putting out more garbage that does not work.

And of course, Canada is at the bottom of the ladder.

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2016

First, my apologies for posting the following on the regular Wed. board session. I'll re-post it here:

From the Seller Update:

What is a private label product identifier?

A private label product identifier is an identifier created by sellers, specifically for products they manufacture or resell.

I believe the process of getting a private UPC code is not as simple as generating any number a user desires. It involves an application process, if I recall, and the number(s) must be consistent with the existing system (including not duplicating existing codes).

There are some good reasons sellers of custom or hand-made goods may not want a UPC code attached to their items, one of which is that it gives the item the appearance of a commercially mass-produced product, as opposed to the distinction of being a custom-made, one of a kind product, or vintage/antique item.

Unless perhaps eBay is talking about some sort of "place-holder" number system, whereby a code can be generated by sellers that is not a formal UPC code, but something the eBay system will recognize as a substitute.

Raphael, if you're still there, could you clarify this?

I hasten to add that the whole point of UPC codes is the worldwide standardization of mass-produced goods.

Thinking about vintage, antique, OOAK and custom-produced goods, this would mean that each individual item might logically require its own code -- rarely are two such items identical. This completely defeats the purpose and concept of standardization.

If the "private" codes eBay is referring to are merely placeholders (i.e. non-UPC codes), will this mean a seller will have to generate a private code every time a new vintage or antique item is listed? What's the point of such a proliferation of meaningless codes? Why not simply retain the "Not Applicable" as an equivalent substitute. This whole thing seems downright silly where certain goods are concerned.

I would like to point out that there are still buyers out there who want unique, non-duplicated items. They will never, ever be searching by product codes.

rose-dee · ‎09-02-2016

Oh yes, and I neglected to add, as I'm sure Raphael must know, that new UPC codes also cost money. There are whole companies making money off that racket.

So I would appreciate clarification from Raphael on whether the "private user codes" are simply placeholders or whether we're expected to apply and pay for our own UPC codes if we're selling vintage/antique/OOAK goods? In either case, bear in mind that each of those items will logically require its own distinct code!

Lastly, if they are "placeholders" only, will they be given exactly the same weight or value in terms of search placement, etc. as if they were a real UPC code?

momcqueen · ‎09-02-2016

Rose-dee, if I may interject on how I see the internal mechanics of this working, go to my thread called Product Catalogue cards. http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Product-Catalogue-cards/m-p/349511/highlight/true#M67452

If you look at the bottom left-hand corner of the card screenshot images you will see something like eBay Product ID: EPID144352400

This is most likely what sellers will be getting with the creation of their special ebay structured data digits.

Of course, my theory could be incorrect.

Besides, when I used to create and sell my own pottery fifteen years ago, I would not have been averse to a UPC code of my own. This is the brave new world of e-commerce, after all. I'd rather have a UPC code on my products and sell online than haul 500 lbs of breakable pottery items from craft show to craft show again.

wonsxela · ‎09-02-2016

Hopefully they won't be stupid enough to force us to use these identifiers on things like trading cards.

momcqueen · ‎09-02-2016

I wouldn't count on a pass with trading cards.

I think it more likely that you will be stuck in the same boat as me with Hot Wheels. Within each product line there being two dozen different series with a few hundred different character variations each.

But the structured data people will try to lump each of the 300 characters together into the series it came from regardless of what features the actual individual character card possesses. Making the Product Catalogue pretty much useless except to wreck listings.

The problem here is that to collectors, the devil is in the details. Those details matter immensely. But only to people who 'get' it. The creators of the Product Catalogue don't get it, nor do they care to get it right because they are facing what looks like to them thousands and thousands of cards that look more or less the same.

Like average basic diecast cars. They are all different but who gives a rat's butt when they retail for about a buck each? Collectors, that's who! Because within that basic line are sought-after special ones like Treasure Hunts and even secret Treasure Hunts and new releases and other things that set one above the other and make them 40 times more valuable.

dutchman48 · ‎09-03-2016

how about stamps, coins, and currency

momcqueen · ‎09-03-2016

I see there is a message from eBay about an update to the User Agreement that specifically mentions the catalogue. I have not read through it to see where accountability begins and ends for sellers whose items are mis-described by incorrect data.

momcqueen · ‎09-03-2016

This is from ebay.com bear in mind: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html

Content

When providing content using the Services (directly or indirectly), you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all Intellectual Property Rights (as defined above) you have in that content in connection with our provision, expansion, and promotion of the Services, in any media known now or developed in the future. To the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your right to enforce against eBay, our assignees, our sublicensees, and their assignees your Intellectual Property Rights in that content in connection with our, those assignees', and those sublicensees' use of that content.

You represent and warrant that, for all such content you provide, you own or otherwise control all necessary rights to do so and to meet your obligations under this Agreement. You represent and warrant that such content is accurate. You represent and warrant that use of any such content (including derivative works) by us, our users, or others in contract with us, and in compliance with this Agreement, does not and will not infringe any Intellectual Property Rights of any third party. eBay takes no responsibility and assumes no liability for any content provided by you or any third party.

We may offer catalogs including, for example, product images, descriptions and specifications that are provided by third parties (including eBay users). You may use catalog content solely in your eBay listings. The permission to use catalog content is subject to modification or revocation at any time at eBay's sole discretion.

While we try to offer reliable data, we cannot promise that the catalogs or other content provided through the Services will always be available, accurate, complete, and up-to-date. As a buyer, you agree that eBay is not responsible for examining or warranting the listings or content provided by third parties through the Services, and that you will not attempt to hold us liable for any inaccuracies. As a seller, it is your responsibility to review the content of your listings for accuracy and that you will not attempt to hold our catalog providers or us responsible for inaccuracies. The catalog may include copyrighted, trademarked or other proprietary materials. You agree not to remove any copyright, proprietary, or identification markings included within the catalogs and not to create any derivative works based on catalog content (other than by including them in your listings).

"As a seller, it is your responsibility to review the content of your listings for accuracy and that you will not attempt to hold our catalog providers or us responsible for inaccuracies." Seriously? What kind of horse plop is this? If the providers of the catalogue data are not accountable, then who pray tell is accountable? What's the point of structured data if no one is accountable for the accuracy of it?

momcqueen · ‎09-03-2016

And furthermore.... exactly how, as a seller, am I supposed to ensure the accuracy of my listing when catalogue data is overwritten on it without my knowledge or consent? How? Tell me how this is done and I will gladly do it.

ypdc_dennis · ‎09-03-2016

@dutchman48 wrote:
how about stamps, coins, and currency

"Publications & Supplies" are the only items in those categories that need product identifiers.

http://pages.ebay.ca/sell/item_specifics/product-identifiers.html

rose-dee · ‎09-05-2016

raphael@ebay.com wrote:
If you're a TL user, then yes, once TL goes away you'll have to list on eBay.com to put items on eBay.com and list on eBay.ca to put items on eBay.ca.

Does this mean that if I opt into Seller Hub on .com now (to get used to it), but keep using Selling Manager on .ca, I will need to prepare my listings separately depending on whether they are going to be listed on .com or .ca?

In other words, will SM (on .ca) and SH (on .com) be completely compatible and seamless so that I will still be able to simply switch from eBay.com to eBay.ca to manage all my listings as I do now? Otherwise, it would seem that switching to Seller Hub on .com now will just make for more work and confusion -- why not wait until SH is also available on .ca in that case?

I hope the above questions make sense. For context, I've never used Turbo Lister, and I'm subscribed to Selling Manager on both .ca and .com.

rose-dee · ‎09-05-2016

In light of the User Agreement mentioned, I think the only question that really needs to be answered in terms of incorrect Product Catalogue numbers appearing in listings is whether the text quoted below (from that agreement) will protect a seller against claims by buyers for misrepresentation, SNAD, etc. The problematic phrase is "hold us liable" -- does "us", include eBay's sellers?:

"As a buyer, you agree that eBay is not responsible for examining or warranting the listings or content provided by third parties through the Services, and that you will not attempt to hold us liable for any inaccuracies."

This User Agreement update (and its timing) is simply an admission by eBay of the obvious reality that it's impossible to produce a product catalogue that is complete and 100% accurate for the millions of disparate items sold on this site.

Given that fact, perhaps Raphael you could ask eBay's legal department to tell sellers exactly where they stand. On the face of it, the disclaimers in this UA are completely contradictory. On the one hand, eBay tells sellers we're responsible for every detail in our listings; on the other it is exonerating itself from any responsibility for errors in the Product Catalogue. Does that exoneration extend to sellers for whom eBay has unilaterally changed some listing details?

Incidentally, this question also applies to the generated listing "summaries" eBay creates for mobile display purposes.

Or is it just that eBay wants it both ways? Let the seller take the fall if the buyer makes a claim against the seller, but protect eBay as a corporate entity if the seller makes a claim against eBay itself?

This is a very serious issue for many sellers. To put it bluntly: who owns the content of our listings -- eBay or the seller?

The whole issue of content (whether accurate or otherwise) generated without seller knowledge or permission, and listing errors in general caused by eBay's own system, would be solved by a clear response to the above question.

I think sellers deserve clarification on this point. We are your subscribers, after all, and the people making your money for you.

rose-dee · ‎09-05-2016

@lucitabby wrote:
hmmmm,
Create my own code???
What if I create code 1-111-11111-2 for my old book and Femme creates the same code for her old book which are not the same books.

Are there any guidelines for creating your own code?? Would a Canada Post HP code work? Should the first number indicate your Province?? Would all zeros work???

I completely agree. It was ridiculous (but typical) of eBay to publish its Seller Update indicating that "private codes" could be generated by sellers as a workaround to UPC codes, without giving any specifics.

Now they will have to scurry around in the background to actually work out the details on how this can possibly function, given the myriad of antique, vintage, OOAK and hand-made items being sold on eBay. As I said earlier, potentially every single such item will need its own new code, which is utterly meaningless. Ludicrous!

What's the problem with the "N/A" alternative? I like the idea of "exempt" even better. Raphael?

pocomocomputing · ‎09-05-2016

@rose-dee wrote:
raphael@ebay.com wrote:
If you're a TL user, then yes, once TL goes away you'll have to list on eBay.com to put items on eBay.com and list on eBay.ca to put items on eBay.ca.
Does this mean that if I opt into Seller Hub on .com now (to get used to it), but keep using Selling Manager on .ca, I will need to prepare my listings separately depending on whether they are going to be listed on .com or .ca?

In other words, will SM (on .ca) and SH (on .com) be completely compatible and seamless so that I will still be able to simply switch from eBay.com to eBay.ca to manage all my listings as I do now? Otherwise, it would seem that switching to Seller Hub on .com now will just make for more work and confusion -- why not wait until SH is also available on .ca in that case?

I hope the above questions make sense. For context, I've never used Turbo Lister, and I'm subscribed to Selling Manager on both .ca and .com.

I log onto eBay.ca and eBay.com in separate tabs in my main browser Firefox. Doing this allows me to access listings from either site without having to login to the other site.

I had Selling Manager on eBay.com for years and Selling Manager on eBay.ca for years. If I wanted to edit a single listing listed on one site or the other, it did not mater which Active Listing Selling Manager I used either on eBay.com or eBay.ca, it would go edit the listing on the appropriate site.

The same is true for Seller Hub (been using the hub since it came out in beta) on eBay.com and Selling Manager on eBay.ca that I use now.

The only restriction is Bulk editing more than one listing. The bulk editor will not allow bulk editing listing from another site. You have to bulk edit listings from one site only. That was true with SM on both sites and is true with the Seller Hub. SM was nice and would just tell you that you had some listings in your selection from another site and let you skip them and still edit the selection from the correct site. Same with Seller Hub.

The Seller Hub design and look and feel is based on Selling Manager more than My eBay and more important, it is based on eBay site structure and programming interfaces that already exists (some additional features may have been added to the interfaces for the hub). The tool used whether Selling Hub or Selling Manager or My eBay Selling or Turbo Lister all use the same programming interfaces to get at the data and manipulate it.

Turbo Lister had the same restrictions on Bulk Edit. You could not bulk edit listings from more than one site at the same time. One nice thing about Turbo Lister was you had an eBay site column with a flag (actual Canada or USA flag symbol) to tell you with site the listing was created on. You could sort by that column to separate the listings but its use was limited as you could not sort on more than one column at the same time.

Back to the original question, by logging into both sites in the same browser session in different tabs allows you to work on either site just like using Turbo Lister. No advantage to having Turbo Lister to do this as far as I know.

Now there might be potential issues if you do not clean up your browsers after sessions with old cookies and cache carried over between sessions. I have my browsers all set to clear cookies and cache after each browser session. If you wish to use another eBay id in the same browser, this does not work well as far as I know. You need to use another browser or log out of your current eBay id, then clean up your browser before starting another eBay id. I just don't mix eBay ids in the same browser at all to keep all sessions clean.

I have been logging into eBay.ca and eBay.com in separate windows in FireFox for 7+ years with no issues. I have also done this with Google Chrome and Opera browsers for the past 2 years ao have additional eBay ids open. I could also do this with Internet Explorer browser but I always found IE not as good a browser as other ones mentioned and have no need for a fourth browser open. I was impressed that I could open 3 browsers with multiple tabs open in each browser and not suffer performance issues on my computer. This was with Windows Vista. With Windows 10, I need to upgrade my memory from 4 mb to 6 or 8 as Windows 10 takes more memory it seems.

PS rose-dee, how do you like my long response. Not just as long as yours but I am a two finger typist, lol. Spent 30 minutes thinking and writing this.

craftycanadianarts · ‎09-07-2016

Thank god I am still using Auctiva. But this UPC thing if I can no longer use the exempt key. I am not sure how the new identifiers work. I do have catalog numbers for my silk screens but I use those internally depending on if the screen is a master work or from one of the training apprentices. Since each of my items isn't even produced until it is purchased this makes it even more difficult for the Artisan type sellers of which there are still a few of us around.

rose-dee · ‎09-08-2016

@pocomocomputing wrote:
PS rose-dee, how do you like my long response. Not just as long as yours but I am a two finger typist, lol. Spent 30 minutes thinking and writing this.

I always appreciate your knowledgeable advice when it comes to deeper software issues, and am even more grateful for it knowing it was done with 2 fingers.

I can yak on and on because I type 120wpm (the result of having spent years in the legal field, where drafting a 50-page brief in 2 hours wasn't unusual). Mind you, I ended up with CTS in both hands as a result, one of which required surgery. So maybe you were wise to stick with 2 fingers.

My lengthy editorials are also a bit of a protest against the 2-thumbs, 140-character world we've all been forced to live in. Thoughtful analysis is dying. The pressure these days is to get it out in a line or two or forget it. Such a style -- if you can call it that -- misses a lot of nuanced and important detail. I refuse to submit!