Why Pitney Bowes

[zynnax]

What if I do not want to use Pitney Bowes. I suddenly find that with that system, additional charges of at least 17% are added for supposed brokerage, customs and a whole list of other charges besides shipping, This example : a used $290 Nikon 18-200 lens, for which there should not be custom charges if sent by US post sees the costs increase by almost 50$.  And the regulations say that there will be no refund if the charges happen to be less that what actually paid. I would like to understand.

LIsting at 9:36 today

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Nikon-Nikkor-AFS-18200mm-F3556-II-VR-DX-ED-G-Lens-/300941994859

Current bid:

US $289.30

Shipping:

US $13.79 (approx. C $14.18) International Priority Shipping to Canada  | See details

Ships to:

United States and many other countries | See details

Import charges:

US $48.29 (estimated and based on current bid) 

[pierrelebel]

"a used $290 Nikon 18-200 lens, for which there should not be custom charges"

???

Where did you get the information that a $300 lens could be imported into Canada without payment of taxes (GST/HST/PST)

Taxes (and brokerage fee) are payable on all taxable imports valued at $20 or more.  The fact the lens is used does not change the fact it is taxable (just like a used car is taxable).

If coming by mail, the taxes on a $300 lens would be $39 in Ontario (different rates apply to different provinces) and $9.95 fee to Canada post.

On that basis, you save a few cents using Pitney Bowes!

[pjcdn2005]

What if I do not want to use Pitney Bowes.

One option is to find a seller that doesn't go through the GSP.

Or, if asked, some sellers who are signed up with GSP will agree to send you an item directly. You would have to do that before you purchased the item. But the lens you are asking about has a bid already so I don't think (but am not positive) that the seller can change anything in the shipping area unless they cancel the bid. They might also have to end the listing and relist it.

However, as Pierre pointed out, chances are that you would end up paying about the same (or more) if you had the seller send you the item directly. Most sellers would want to send a item with that value by Priority or Express so the shipping would be a minimum of $25 and probably more. Also, I find that items with a higher value send Priority or Express usually do get charged  gst/hst plus the $9.95 fee from Canada Post.

[lady.stark]

As PJ said, you can ask the seller if he would ship without GSP. If he agrees and you win the auction, you have to send an invoice request first. You can do that through "Request total" on your Purchase History. The seller will then be able to delete the GSP part. The seller MUST wait before sending his invoice though. I don't think he can change anything if he's the one sending the invoice first.

[pjcdn2005]

I didn't realize it could be done that way. Thanks for the info lady. stark.

[lady.stark]

The one and only time that I encountered a GSP listing that I really wanted, I used that method and it worked. I don't think I will do that often though, because that is a LOT of discussion back and forth with the seller. Too much trouble. 😉

[zynnax]

I have bought many times lenses directly shipped by US post and then this is passed ob for delivery by Canada Post and never pay any of these charges.  I would still, and have done so many times, pay Canada Post whatever they collect for handling and import taxes and HST as long as this is really documented and not, like Pitney Bowes hidden inside a long list of What I still do not understand is that PItney Bowes rakes in your money and will never pay back anything charged above actual costs. I do not Pitney Bowes is such good samaritan as to do this for nothing and still pay the exact amount of taxes. So teh buyer finally is feeding Pitney Bowes for a service not requested. Why do I need to ship my item to Pitney Bowes and then have them ship to the buyer ?This is pure follishness and money grabbing.

What is honest in this: Direct quote

You will not request, and you will not receive, a refund for the difference, if any, between Program Fees paid by you and actual costs to Pitney Bowes in the event that actual shipping and/or import costs are less than the amounts paid by you.

Description is great, just like huge amounts of small print:

 Look at this:

 Pitney Bowes will manage the exportation and, through third party customs brokers, the importation clearance of GSP Items that you have purchased including, as applicable, remitting your payment of import charges to applicable customs and tax authorities, preparing required documentation, making necessary filings, and providing customs authorities with information needed to clear the shipment through customs.

Why do I need to pay for all this when the postal service is already doing it.

My forecast: Many sellers will complain about this service and Ebay will have to stop its agreement with Pitney Bowes. I only hope this happens soon.

[marnotom!]

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@zynnax wrote:
 

My forecast: Many sellers will complain about this service and Ebay will have to stop its agreement with Pitney Bowes. I only hope this happens soon.

---

Sellers won't complain about a service that they feel--rightly or wrongly--is making shipping out of the U.S. somehow "easier" and less stressful for them.

And eBay won't shut down the Global Shipping Program while there are buyers out there who--unlike you--don't do their homework first and bid on or purchase items being shipping through this program, despite the fact that there are links to the terms and conditions all over the place on the listing page.

[rykkm]

Actually, it is not so much the sellers. They use it as a matter of convenience. The only way they will know that this is a program that can adversely affect Canadian buyers, and therefore their sales to Canadian buyers, is by educating them.

While it is true that the GSP collects all taxes and fees up front, How many of we buyers have never been charged all the fees, taxes, etc? Personally, I would sooner buy from someone not using the GSP, and take the chance I wont get dinged for all the fees. Of course, I would factor in the cost just in case. But more often than not, I probably wont get charged all fees. 

[femmefan1946]

Buyers who are importing any item with a value of more than $20 should expect to pay a service/brokerage fee plus sales taxes (5% to 15% of the value of the item) plus duty based on the type of product and its place of manufacture.

If your seller were shipping the item by UPS that brokerage fee would start around $25. There are (possibly archived) threads about this that are thousands of posts long.

The Global Shipping Program actually seems to reduce that brokerage fee to around $5. (Not enough information yet.)

And for the US seller who was using UPS or another courier to ship both domestically and internationally, is now protected against screaming feedback from infuriated buyers who are told on their doorstep by the guy in brown that they have to cough up more money before the courier will release the parcel. That feedback will be removed by eBay.

Canada Post has been carefree about charging their service fee+tax+duty, and many buyers did not realize that they should have been charged.

The GPS is actually good for our national budget, since PB will always collect and remit those taxes.

That it might encourage Canadians to buy domestically is a bonus for Canadian sellers.

[marnotom!]

Good post, Femmefan, but let's straighten one thing out for the masses.

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Canada Post has been carefree about charging their service fee+tax+duty, and many buyers did not realize that they should have been charged.

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Canada Post doesn't charge the taxes and duties.  The Canadian Border Services Agency does.  Canada Post charges ten bucks to collect and remit those taxes.

I suspect that the "carefree" nature of this assessment of taxes is due to an increased volume of mailed goods entering the country plus the usual government mantra of "do more but with less."  In this case, fewer border entry points and fewer border agents to do the work at them.

[Anonymous]

Why Pitney Bowes?  Is there other service that do it?  I don't want UPS that is for sure!!  I refused to buy anything from any sellers that use UPS at any time regardless of what!  UPS will ding you way high fees regardless of what. 

As for GSP, don't buy anything from US sellers who use GSP, that is simple.  Their loss is losing the Canadian buyers!

[pierrelebel]

"Is there other service that do it?"

Pitney Bowes is by far the largest and most experienced international reforwarder.  They are registered to collect duty and taxes for most countries in the world.  It is a US3,600,000,000 dollar corporation: huge and well respected!

[pierrelebel]

By the way, whether eBay made the deal to help American sellers for exports through Pitney Bowes or any other re-forwerder, the problems would have been exactly the same:

everyone of them - registered with Revenue Canada (and tax authorities in other countries) = charge GST/HST/PST on all eligible imports based on what the law states - no exceptions.

They all charge a small fee for handling the Customs paperwork

They all charge a shipping charge to get the parcels from their distribution centre to destinations - often cheaper than individual shippers.

All in all, that type of service is not needed by most Canadian buyers purchasing relatively low priced items from American sellers.

[gsrhobbiescanada]

I agree with the last post. I have many times purchased items and not been charge any tax or import fees. I'll take the chance every time with understood added costs but will ususally come out ahead. With the GSP, they cannot tell me what service they will ship by. Therefore, I refuse to use an seller who cannot inform me of the delivery service provider. And contacting eBay about it is a total pain, plain and simple. Even eBay cannot tell me by which service they will ship by. I am the one with the money. I control MY money how and where it's spent. Not knowing what I'm paying for is ludicrous!

I have asked a seller to send direct and they have refused. I politely let them know they have lost a sale and suggested contacting eBay to let them know why. The response? A reply boasting the greatness of GSP.

[doogcamp]

I'm NEVER AGAIN buying from a seller who uses PITNEY BOWES GLOBAL SHIPPING. It is a RIP OFF. I Bought a pair of sneakers and the seller didn't ship by Global Shipping, but I still got charged for it. I've called EBAY / PALPAL / GLOABAL SHIPPING DEPT 3 times in 3 months and was each time promised a refund of the fee, But still no refund. They have NO INTENTION of refunding my money. STAY AWAY FROM PITNEY BOWES GLOBAL SHIPPING!!

[reallynicestamps]

This seems to be an ongoing problem.

But the problem seems to be with individual sellers rather than with PB.

Apparently the sellers are signed up with the Global Shipping Program, but are mistakenly shipping the items directly to the buyer, rather than to the Kentucky centre that PB trans-ships from.

The buyer is charged for the GSP when he pays, but PB cannot complete the work they are contracted to do, because they have never received the parcel.

Sigh.

I have no answer for this, since there are many tens of thousands who are signed up for the GSP without ever having read and understood the actual system.

[doogcamp]

I understand. But, I think that if the seller ships direct, such as in my case, then I should have received a refund from Paypal for the Global Shipping services that Pitney Bowes never supplied. I gave them money to do nothing. They should be honest enough to say that bacause they did not provide any services to me, that I deserve a refund. 

[pierrelebel]

In such case, the seller screwed up. He did not follow instructions to ship to PB.

You can either contact eBay to resolve the problem and get your money back or file a claim with PayPal against the charge by Pitney Bowes.

"They should be honest enough to say that bacause they did not provide any services to me"

That is correct but they do not know the service was not provided unless the seller or yourself tell them.  That is why you should contact eBay as previously advised.

[doogcamp]

That's just it. I did, on three occasions talk to Paypal about this, they say they understood the problem, and that I would get a refund, which they never gave me. I tried filing a claim online but they just said the deadline was up.