Anyone had buyers charged twice for VAT? (Both by eBay and by customs?)
Summary: The discussion centers around the challenges sellers are facing with double VAT charges when shipping to Europe, particularly since new VAT tax regulations were implemented. msau4301 shared the issue of eBay automatically charging VAT, and buyers being charged again by customs, despite attempts to include VAT information on customs forms. reallynicestamps and pjcdn2005 highlighted that some buyers refuse packages due to these double charges, despite having proof of prior payment, leading to delayed refunds. tuckhouse2021 shared experiences of trying various methods to avoid double charges but still encountering issues with certain countries like Germany, Finland, and Sweden. Electronic transmission of VAT information appears to be a significant challenge. rodriguezx123x expressed frustration with ongoing double charges and accused eBay of not addressing the issues effectively. There's a consensus that the IOSS system and cooperation between postal services and customs need improvement to prevent extra charges.
Just wondering if anyone has been having trouble shipping to Europe since the new VAT taxes? I've heard some people are being charged twice - eBay charges automatically but some are still getting charged again. I know I saw a suggestion of adding the VAT paid # on customs form but also read that some had tried that and it didn't help. About 20% of my sales are international and I'm temporarily holding off shipping outside of Canad and the US. I have one regular buyer from Italy and I'm waiting to see what happens when her package arrives but it's been six weeks now and it hasn't even shown up.
Wondering how this has been affecting others. Thanks!
msau4301
OP1 year agoThis is a four year old thread from when eBay first started charging the VAT.
john_koenig99
·1 year agoDuplicate deleted
recped
·1 year agoYeah I noticed you posted on this thread that you started in 2021, thought that was a bit weird.
For those complaining about PostNord / Norway, Norway is not an EU member and has NEVER been part of the IOSS system, they have their own. The code for Norway is VOEC22024926.
I've shipped to Norway using their code and never had an issue.
rodriguezx123x
·1 year agoi am in Europe and i am still being charged VAT twice on a regular basis. In the past ebay always refunded the original VAT but now on my last purchase ebay goes next level with this double VAT charge scam and refuses to repay the double charged VAT. This is not about my $6 Dollar. This presumably is a Billion Dollar VAT Scam where Billion Dollar companies taking profit in scaming people with double charging VAT that has only to be paid once! They are doing nothing to get this useless IOSS System running properly for 4 years now because they are making big money in double charging VAT and fees.
tuckhouse2021
·1 year agoHI-I have run into this before several times but eBay has always refunded my customers when they enquired. I spent a lot of time online googling the issue. I believe it is the postal companies that do not have the IOSS system in place and use a different method for importing and customs. Each country has its own postal and customs systems and not all are alligned to flow seemlessly.
Postnord is one postal service that I know of that does not recognize the IOSS numbers. The computer systems don't pick up the info engrained in the bar code sytem to show that the VAT charges have already been paid. It may be another form of tax grab for some countries and is also used to deter people from online ordering from other countries instead of purchasing domestically. I do not believe it is done by eBay.
john_koenig99
·1 year ago@rodriguezx123x
Are you guys sure is double charging of the VAT? Or just duties and fees charged to an order coming from abroad, into Europe? Because that'd be apples and oranges.
tuckhouse2021
·1 year agoHI-Yes. Mine were double charges of VAT but I have not had any for almost a year now. Once I explain to the buyers how to contact eBay they were refunded. It does get difficut with the language barriers but eBay did refund the double VAT. I also know there can be other duties etc.
Postnord does not recognize the IOSS and most of my shipments ended up with them.
flipistics
·1 year agoI know here in Canada, people who collect tax (who are GST/HST registered) have to remit what is collected, even if we accidentally overcollect. If we undercollect, we have to remit the missing amount out of pocket. I assume it's the same in most other countries. There's no way eBay is making a bunch of extra money out of this, and they're definitely not pocketing the extra or a bunch of execs would likely be in prison. The fault probably belongs to some of the European carriers not being set up properly to recognize IOSS. THEY might be profiting off it by charging service fees to collect the already-paid-for VAT.
tuckhouse2021
·2 years agoYes I have customers who get charged double VAT. I do the paperwork properly, add the IOSS codes, enclose invoices, place packing slips on the outside, write it on the envolope as well. I have tried all the tricks and suggestions and still customers in Germany, Finland and Sweden are often charged double VAT.
There is a means that eBay in the respective countries will re-imburse if the customers fill in lots of paperwork but it is not easy or well received by customers who have to do this. There is often a language difference and traslations that make explanations more difficult and confusing.
Many customers do not believe me when I say I have added the IOSS number on the customs form as it does not show visibly. I think this is a very flawed system. I just re-imbused for 76.00 as I didn't want the hassle of telling them how to proceed with a claim and don't want to damage my seller standings, lose a customer etc. Obviously I can't do this often.
This is one reason that I tried bay labels. The IOSS is supposed to be imbedded into the label itself. Even though there is no visible evidence of it on the label. However, multiple purchases or items cannot be combined so it is frustrating. If a buyer purchases two seperate items in two transactions and pays the VAT through eBay it is still not possible to combine the items into one parcel for a mailing label. They then have doublel shipping costs which doesnt go over well either.
The chances of double VAT charges are much higher if mailing with Canada Post labels even when the IOSS is added correctly. It does not seem to show in the postal/customs systems at the other end.
The thing that works best is to make up private customized lots for indiviudaul customers over the value threshold that eBay uses for the VAT taxes. About 150 Euros or 135 Britsh pounds. Ebay does not add the tax on higher value parcels/lots. They also charge VAT on the value of the item PLUS the shipping-the entire transaction.
If left to the individual countries to charge the VAT upon entry to the country it is cheaper for the buyer. The VAT is calculated only on the value of the item whithout shipping.
marnotom!
·2 years agoThe last I checked on this (probably about two years ago), the EU was aware of the data transmission issue but its solution was a temporary work-around that would have been complicated to implement for digital marketplaces such as eBay.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@marnotom!
@tuckhouse2021
For courier shipments they use the long form which is much more detailed option wise. In practice the VAT paid would either be in a certain box or as a line item. With the Shippo form there is room to note. Because eBay labels is bare bones reason why it easily seen. As a side using the the notation VAT paid how is it even cross referenced? What is it cross referenced to? Not ALL ebay sellers use eBay Labels. It would have been much better left in the hands of sellers and then customs to choose when the item arrives it gets collected....or not. This way no confusion. This is basically like telling a someone you did something and them forgetting you told them.
PDF version. They are in this format for all couriers with only minor tweaks.
-Lotz
marnotom!
·2 years agolotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years agoThey are called INCOTERMS. (I shipped commercially internationally for 20 plus years.) As noted below it eases clarification. What I highlighted below would reduce confusion if that was noted. Customs should be able to see all inputted info a seller adds. Because everything does not display due to formatting difficult to know if they are seeing everything as typed. eBay STILL hasn't corrected the origin of goods issue that was pointed out almost 2 years ago. I know what has happened is customers are getting charged again at time of pick up. It then becomes a case of proving to customs that it was paid already. The packing slip or their invoice from eBay would be enough proof but they may not be aware of this.
Advantages and Disadvantages of Incoterms
The single greatest advantage of using Incoterms is the standardization and specificity of complicated international trade aspects. Having a system that eliminates ambiguity between nations has made trading much simpler, especially when negotiating terms. This saves time and money that would have previously been spent on lawyers, who would draft terms basically breaking down Incoterms into different languages.
A notable disadvantage of Incoterms is that buyers and sellers often have different preferences when using them. Sellers, for example, may choose CIF because they understand their shipments better than buyers do. Buyers, in contrast, may prefer FOB for the same reasons. However, the terms themselves are not the issue, and it becomes more a matter of negotiation over which terms to use vs. the clarity of the terms themselves.
reallynicestamps
·5 years agoI have been asked at the PO counter about "return or dispose" but I use mostly discount postage stamps plus the makeup amount on a label purchased at the counter.
If the item is refused, the seller is not required by eBay to refund.
If the seller decides to refund, she can refund less than the original payment, for example by not refunding any shipping fees or eBay fees. And there is no urgency in refunding until the shipment wends its way back to the seller.
pjcdn2005
·5 years agoYes but the problem in these cases is not that the buyer is refusing the package to be contrary. They are refusing it because they have paid for VAT already and are being told they have to pay it again..plus the customs processing fee. I have read about situations where the correct info was on the envelope and the buyer had the invoice showing that VAT was paid but that their customs office would not accept that. It's my impression that it has to be done electronically. Although it isn't fair to the seller that they are out money for shipping and/or the item, it also isn't fair to the buyer since they don't want to pay for the same tax twice.
I really don't understand why if so many postal systems aren't set up correctly to transmit the information properly, why the EU countries can't take this into account and accept the information on paper and/or have some sort of 'grace' period.
domsvinyl
·2 years ago