Buyer requesting refund.
Summary: jason_king_zero shared a transaction issue on eBay where a buyer demanded a refund, claiming the item was not in mint condition. Despite providing detailed photos and communication before shipping, the buyer was unhappy and changed stories regarding the item's receipt condition. Multiple participants, including marnotom! and mrdutch1001, advised jason_king_zero to accept the return and issue a return label to minimize potential losses. There was concern about eBay siding with the buyer, which could lead to a refund without item return, as explained by dinomitesales and ambros_51. jason_king_zero expressed frustration and uncertainty but eventually decided to proceed with a return plan, hoping to resolve the issue and potentially recoup losses through a damage claim with Canada Post. The discussion also explored preventive measures for future transactions, emphasizing transparency in listings.
I recently sold an item to a buyer who after receiving it is unhappy and wants a refund.
He’s stating that the item is not mint and wants to return it.
In my original listing I provided 6 sided photos of the item clearing showing the condition of the item.
No where in my listings to I ever say my items are mint condition. I just show all angles of the item and that’s it.
He bought the item and before he’s sends payment he messages me asking if the items are mint because of the price he’s paying on them.
I tell him the items are in good shape and that they will be well protected in shipping , including soft protectors, then individual bubble wrapping of each item…then all of that bubble wrapped….all of which I have photos of before I shipped.
I contacted eBay support and at first they said I should just accept the return of the item…which I have to pay for.
I didn’t agree with this so I was sent to talk to someone else.
He told me to contact the buyer with the photos of shipping proving I did everything in my power to protect the items and to wait for eBay to make a decision.
So I did that and obviously the buyer is not happy.
Upon further looking online …almost always the buyer wins these disputes. So…my question is what happens if eBay decides to side with the buyer after all this? Am I out of the proxy ring returned to me and I’m forced to fully refund? Or do that tell me to send label for return and I’m out shipping??
Thank you
flipistics
·3 years agoI saw an article today that said in 2022, 17% of items purchased were returned (that's total merchandise, not eBay specific). 😳
No wonder retailers are starting to look into charging for returns.
snoopwiz
·3 years agoSome may disagree but, have you considered offering the PITA, lets say $20 - $25 refund to keep the item, saving you having to pay the estimated $50 to return? Ya, I know, many sellers may see that as appeasing an undeserving buyer but, its your cash we are talking about...... Food for thought.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agojason_king_zero
OP3 years agojason_king_zero
OP3 years agoHe’s not sending me photos of the damage so I can’t open a claim. He just sent me a close up photo of dent in a shipping box before. I asked him for more detailed photos of the actual damaged items and the box. And no reply. That’s it.
And I also agree to accept the return. I just asked him if he could get a box for the items to ship back to me. I told him I just need the dimensions of the box to create a shipping label for him. And nothing. No response.
So now I don’t know what to do. Lol
msau4301
·3 years agoWorse case, rather than missing the deadline, use the dimensions of the box you used to send it to him.
You could message back that since you never heard from him you are assuming he is sending it back in same box and that is the size you used for return label. He may be thinking at this point he isn't sending it back and will get both the refund and still keep the item, I think this is what some buyers think the guarantee is. This is why once you send the label to him that will not be the case, ball will be in his court to send it to you. If you don't get delivery proof it was returned to you, it stops there.
If he hasn't sent photos and is not responding it may mean he never will, but if he sends it back in the same (aledgedly damaged) box you can take the photos then, and if it doesn't come back at all, won't matter since claim will be over (in your favour).
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agojason_king_zero
OP3 years agoSo…I guess I’m looking for an answer I’m not going to find. And that’s okay. I think I’m going to open damage claim with Canada post…and once that’s opened I’ll send a return label to buyer. Refund him when I get the package. And hopefully recoup the losses through my Canada post claim. Good idea?? Not a good idea??
sparx_63
·3 years agoHello
I don't know if this will help or not , but here goes. I find about 1-1.5 % of my sales have issues with damage or "percieved" damage when shipped. If the item has been insured, I IMMEDIATELY refund the buyer and initiate the claim. Works every time. You get your money back and the buyer KEEPS the item. The buyer is always pleased with the outcome (keeping money and item) and the issue is resolved. You get your money as if you have completed the sale. Dealing with returns and less than desirable customers is part of doing business with EBAY...so develop a business plan to deal with this when it ocurs (and it absolutely will, it happens to all of us)
As a side note, don't make a business transaction personal. Always seek the best outcome for BOTH parties. Making correct decisions early alleviates your anxiety.
Also, please realize that people in this forum are taking their valuable time help you and show you the correct path to take. Most, if not all, have travelled it already. Getting free advice is amazing, it is much better than paying to "learn" the lesson.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoIn this case though I can’t. He’s not responding back to me photos of the damage so I can’t open a claim. He just sent me a close up photo of dent in a shipping box. That’s it.
And I also agree to accept the return. I just asked him if he could get a box for the items to ship back to me. I told him I just need the dimensions of the box to create a shipping label for him. And nothing. No response.
So now I don’t know what to do. Lol
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoFirst he says I hid damage in my ad and that the photos are too far away. I said I posted 6 sided photos. Not far away. If you had questions before buying you could have asked before buying.
I asked…did it get damaged in shipping? Because I took the utmost care in packing it? He says no. Then box arrived safe. I sent the photos of me boxing up the package so he and eBay would have proof. They show none of the damage that he claims . He says I must of switched the items and my picture prove nothing. This is highly impossible because the items are vaulted years ago and I cannot simply buy a bunch of these , nor would I ( these are my personal collection) .
He gets upset. Says he don’t want to talk about it anymore.
Then this morning …he send me a photos of the shipping box damaged. Lol. Yeah…the one he said wasn’t previously. Saying it was damaged in shipping.
So I immediately call eBay. They see all of our conversations and pictures. And said they can’t do anything until the claim closes still…but to open a damage claim through the carrier for him. But they also say that this all seems a little suspicious now. Especially where his story keeps changing.
So i messaged him to inform him I will open a claim and if he wants to send photos to help with his claim to do so. He said he will.
Now…with all this documented on eBay messaging for eBay to see…do I actually have a case with this if it goes past the claim date and eBay steps in?
marnotom!
·3 years agoYou're still treating this like a court case and trying to prove that you're "right" when you should be trying to salvage the sale and minimize the damage to your bottom line.
You're actually afforded a very modest amount of "protection" if you accept the return request and get that shipping label to the buyer before eBay steps in. Your buyer may be thinking that because they're in the States and you're in Canada you can't send them a US return label and their chance of keeping the item for free increases, but while tricky, it is possible for Canadian sellers to send US buyers USPS return shipping labels.
All that evidence to eBay is nice, but my sense is that it's going to end up going on the buyer's file to be used as background info if they file more return requests like this. If they continue to make questionable returns, they're going to lose access to the Money Back Guarantee.
More info on returns of "not as described" items (and other stuff):
https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoAnd maybe none of that matters. And I should just move on. I have a couple days before this comes to a head.
Im just looking for info that’s all. I really don’t like being taken advantage of. Most people would feel the same way I do.
mrdutch1001
·3 years agoYou are now saying " I felt like I was being conned from the get go"...so why did you not just cancel the sale from the get go?
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoI meant as soon as he opened the claim. I knew something was wrong when he kept saying that that I hid defects in my pictures….and the his story snowballed from there.
I appreciate your help. And I understand your stance is refund and walk away. I’m just looking for other opinions and maybe hoping to find someone with a similar story as mine that has a different outcome. You don’t need to reply to this thread anymore. I really wasn't trying to offend you or anyone else by not accepting your suggestion. Thanks again. Cheers 👍🏻
mrdutch1001
·3 years agoOnly a wee percentage of sellers come to the forums to discuss problems, issues,etc, so there will not be a huge amount of data to draw from and not all circumstances will be same, there will be different scenarios, and the outcomes will vary...there is no set in stone result...
This will all be a lesson learned and may help you in the future.
It is what it is, so go with whatever you have decided and hope for the best.
reallynicestamps
·3 years ago@jason_king_zero
You can buy a USPS return shipping label through Shippo.
https://apps.goshippo.com/login?next=https://app.goshippo.com/orders/manual/
It must be easy because I have done it.
You will need your Solutions for Small Business discount number from Canada Post to open a Shippo account if you don't already have one. https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/small-business.page?
Start the return for refund BEFORE you start anything with Canada Post.
There is a deadline of midnight on Wednesday.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoSo you think I should start the return / refund with the buyer before opening claim with Canada post ??
ricarmic
·3 years ago@jason_king_zero just a side note, the "due date" is actually 12:01 on that date, so if it says April 13th you have to do something before midnight on the 12th otherwise the bots will do their magic at 12:03 AM on the 13th.
I learned this the hard way......
pjcdn2005
·3 years agoeBay wants to retain buyers. They do not want to be judge and jury and decide who is right or if the buyer is being reasonable. They want sellers to handle buyer problems, they do not want to be asked to step in and make a decision. When they are asked to step in, they are going to decide in the buyers favor 99.95% of the time. Keep in mind they don't know what the product looked like when you sent it or when the buyer received it.
If you do not accept the return and eBay has to make the decision, they will almost certainly rule in the buyers favor and force you to refund him without getting the item back. You will also receive an unresolved case defect. If you have more than 2 defects your seller status goes below standard and your seller fees increase.
If you accept the return, issue a label and refund on return you can say that the buyer misused the money back guarantee and you may get a little money back. The following page has some info about seller protection, make sure you click on the + sign next to 'Read more about ...'.
https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345&st=3&pos=1&query=Seller%20protections&intent=Seller%20protection&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1267
As others have suggested it is best to accept the return without argument. It's possible that the buyer had just changed their mind but when you wouldn't agree to the return, they damaged the box to 'prove' that the item wasn't mint. That wasn't the right thing to do on the buyers part but when someone doesn't want an item, it rarely turns out well if you try to force them to keep it.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoI think I’ll issue return label…refund when I receive my return and hope to recoup losses somehow. Thanks
pjcdn2005
·3 years agoIf the package is less than 4 lbs, it can be sent back using usps first class international. You may be able to purchase a label through Shippo or Pirateship. Ask the buyer to write merchandise return on the customs form.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agomsau4301
·3 years agoYes and do it quick, quick, quick as others have said time is slipping away. I've not (luckily!) had to issue a return label for US but do not leave it to the last minute, you never know what glitches, power outages, or anything unforeseen that could happen. Just do it! Anything else (Canada Post claim etc) you can do later to try and recoup like you say! As much as you feel wronged, just put on your smile and wave face and deal with the next step after you've done the most important part (the return label!)
Keep us posted, we're routing for you but you have to do it quick. Bring us back some good news!
(Hoping to check back later and see you update it has been done!)🤞
mrdutch1001
·3 years agoSince you have totally ignored all advice about accepting a return and proceding with that process and are hellbent on continuing to do your own thing with calling eBay, I guess what ever happens , happens as there is little any of us can do or say to satisfy your questioning what eBay will do...We DON"T know what eBay will do or won't do! ...that's now between you, the buyer and eBay.. so deal with it!!
Que Sera, Sera!
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoAnd maybe everyone is still right. Even with all this evidence ebay will not care at all.
But…this is the first time it’s happened to me and maybe someone has gone through this with a different t outcome. Maybe not. Who knows. That the point of these message boards. Sometimes it’s not best to take the first bit of advice given. And that goes for anything really.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoIf I post with full transparency….all pictures…ect..how can I not go through this…or protect myself?
If I put in the description item comes as listed in ad? You will receive exact item in listing?
Change item condition from new to something else? ( even though it’s brand new)
Any suggestions??
mrdutch1001
·3 years agoIf sellers choose to list and sell on eBay, they abide by eBay's rules and policies....and that includes eBay's Money Back Guarantee, and also includes that fact that "No returns accepted", DOES NOT mean No Refunds!
flipistics
·3 years agoA collectible market like Pops is going to have much pickier buyers than many other categories and higher returns as a result. Most other types of items aren't like that. Make sure to take pictures of any flaw specifically and note it in the listing as well. You could also add wording in the description that says something to the effect that items are new and in excellent condition but may have extremely minor packaging flaws / damage and should not be considered absolutely perfect or mint. Refer them to the pictures for exact condition. It may or may not help, but it probably can't hurt.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agomarnotom!
·3 years agoIs your username a reference to the old British TV character? I have a bizarre fascination with things related to Peter Wyngarde.
I do feel for you and your situation. I guess the important thing to remember is that you're not in a court of law; you're involved in a business transaction that hasn't gone well. Your job at this point is not to prove how "right" you are, but to try to salvage this sale as best as possible and ensure you receive the item back in good condition. Get that return label out to the buyer and put it in your ledger as a business expense.
For what it's worth, when I check your completed listings in "list" view, they all come up as "brand new." I checked two of those listing pages and they state at the top that they're in "new" condition. I know that "mint" and "new" aren't necessarily the same thing, but that may have confused your buyer.
mrdutch1001
·3 years agoTotally agree!...
Sellers must be very aware of the listing item's condition and be sure it is correctly applied in the item specifics, especially if the item specifis default to a condition that does not apply... and that must be corrected before posting the listing.....
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoIt seams like everything has a grey area on eBay. Lol.
The item is new. It was never taken out of the boxes. So I mean that's as new as can be. I posted all the photos of the items showing the conditions.
And even after I sold the item the buyer messaged me asking me if they were mint? I just told them they are in good shape and that I would ship in protectors and bubble wrap.
he could of just cancelled the purchase then and there before I shipped it. Or even asked for more photos?
I feel I did everything by the book. I didn't hide anything as he's claiming now? I submitted all photos of what he was receiving.
But..my concern is if I let eBay make the decision if I did my due diligence or not…will I still have the option to have my item returned or he just gets to keep it anyways??
mrdutch1001
·3 years agoI suppose it was also your choice to cancel the sale if you felt that the buyer was going to be problematic after questioning the condition after the purchase ....sometimes one has to go with a gut feeling and/or what is best when buyer is questioning the item after purchase...
If the item had not been shipped at that point, a seller still has the option to cancel the sale, based on that "bad feeling" and justifiable as unable to complete the transaction...
Circumsatances will dictate how eBay rules ...
but it might be in your best interests to simply accept a return of the item and hope for the best...
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoThanks for the reply and input. This is my first time having to deal with this.
I’ve had other buyers ask questions before regarding item I had for sale. Some even asking for more photos. All of which I gladly facilitated.
I honestly didn’t think this would happen to me.
Everyone keeps suggesting that I just bite the bullet and issue the refund.
But if I decide to wait…and let eBay look into this…and if they side with the buyer…do I just abide by there ruling and send a return shipping label…wait for the item to be returned to me…make sure it’s in the same condition I set to him..then a refund is issued anyway?
Im just asking if that’s the process because I have no idea.
mrdutch1001
·3 years agoIf the buyer is asking for a refund, it's your choice to proceed accordingly...by accepting the return you proceed accordingly and when you have the item back issue the refund= DO NOT refund until you have received the item back and all is good...
IF you wait until the buyer escalates this to a case and asks eBay to step in, then the end result is decided by eBay...
dinomitesales
·3 years agoYou don't accept returns, so it's entirely possible that if eBay sides with the buyer (which they probably will, to be honest) they will just refund them and they won't have to return the items. In which case you'll be out the money AND your item.
It is within your best interest to accept the return and provide a return label. Re-list them when you get them back and just hope you aren't out too much money when all is said and done.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoOmg. That’s insane. I can’t believe eBay works that way. I always thought ebay was a safe place to buy and sell. But to just always side with the buyer all the time? It’s not like I’m Costco or Wal Mart and can just take back anything all the time. I’m going to be out of pocket $50 im shipping charges alone for no good reason. Not to mention the full refund of the item( cost and shipping)
That’s wild. How to you all keep selling on eBay like this 😅. I’m stressed out now about all my listings. And I know in my heart I shouldn’t be because im very transparent with my listings and always open for communication with potential buyers. I have alot to think about I guess 😞.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoSo I was told I could let eBay review the case after my timeframe to accept the return ends. And if I’m fact they side with the buyer, then I could issue a return label at that time?
So…is there any harm in letting that process happen? Or…is that a lie?? Because I reading all kinds of situations online and I’m afraid that if I wait to let eBay make a decision…then I’m out all my money and I won’t have the option to get my item back?
marnotom!
·3 years agoThe return process is explained on this eBay help page:
https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115
I would suggest that as you have a "no [remorse] returns" policy, it would be in your best interest to issue a return shipping label as soon as possible. Remember, you're not in a court of law, you're doing business.
The customer may not always be right, but the customer is the customer and often it's more important just to resolve the problem in the customer's favour, which is likely what would happen if you let eBay handle this, and because of your return policy, there's more of a chance that the buyer could keep the item and the money from the sale.
jason_king_zero
OP3 years agoThanks for the reply on this matter. I really do appreciate it. I'm very concern over all this. just want to make sure I handle this fairly.
Question..
won’t the buyer not be issued a refund for the item before I receive said item back in the same condition as I sent it to them??
Or…will eBay just automatically take the refund payment from my account and give it to him if they deem I was in the wrong without him having to ship the item back to me??
In all honesty I feel I did nothing wrong...and the buyer had 2 different ovations to either ask for more photos and or cancel the payment before I shipped it...which would of saved us all this hassle.
But..I understand that just my opinion on it.
I'm really just worried I'm going to be out my item and money if eBay sides with him. Or do they make the buyer return the item before refund??
ambros_51
·3 years agohi ! if you wait for e bay to make a decision you will lose everything ! the buyer gets to keep the item and gets a full refund in the process .
that is how it goes with e bay ! i know it happened to me . your decision will depend on the value of the item versus the cost of providing a shipping label , do it before e bay steps in .
or you will LOSE EVERYTHING !
lotzofuniquegoodies
·3 years ago@marnotom!
In a number of categories if you try to list on dot com vs dot ca the available options for condition can vary. An example that comes to mind is movies. You can find Brand New, New, Pre-Owned, Used, New(Other) and the dangerous Not Specified. Those choices can vary substantially category to category. (Same with the IS choices on left side depending on site).
And now, going forward Refurbished is definitely a no no unless it's verified as so. I've been selling personally refurbished for years with no issues with buyers. I have to make sure the word refurbished is removed from the listing details or eBay will flag it.
-Lotz