Bye eBay
Summary: chicweb shared a frustrating experience with eBay regarding the shipping of a smartphone to the USA, which included a lithium battery. While attempting to facilitate a return for an incorrectly listed item, USPS wouldn't ship the phone back due to the battery, and eBay sided with the buyer, resulting in a refund and lost phone for chicweb. This led to several responses pointing out the regulatory challenges of shipping lithium batteries and the importance of understanding shipping restrictions. Despite eBay’s initial decision, chicweb later reported a potential reversal after further discussion with eBay support. Other participants suggested alternative shipping solutions and highlighted the importance of seller awareness regarding shipping regulations.
It's over.
Note to every seller: eBay decided that shipping smartphone from USA to Canada is dangerous. Yep.
A customer wanted a return for NAD. We accepted it because we made a mistake in the listing. Our fault.
We told the customer we would pay them the shipping, to just tell us the amount.
They said USPS won't ship it back because of a lithium battery in the phone (an iPhone). I told them they could send it by ground. They decided to open a case with eBay.
eBay said the item was dangerous to ship it back, so I have to refund AND lose the phone. Sooooo. Yup. Ebay is telling us that shipping a Smartphone from USA to Canada is dangerous.
The fun fact is: I spoke to an agent an hour before explaining the situation. They told me I was doing everything correctly and to wait for the customer to ship it back. That they could use another courrier.
Still, they decided to go with the buyer.
So, I ended all my listing and going elsewhere, me and my 5k inventory. I was very motivated, adding 5 to 10 items per day.
But now, nope.
Have fun y'all.
chicweb
OP2 years agoJust a note here that after discussing with ebay on Facebook, they told me they reversed the decision in my favor, the customer could have shipped it.
I'm waiting to see the change in the account, but at this point, I'm not thinking it will. As I told the person in chat, they could even have sent it back by FedEx (I provided a link to FedEx phone shipping, which explain they do it internationally too).
I have to wait 24 to 48 hours for this to show up, but as I said, I'm not counting on it, at this point. Lost all hope on ebay.... Let's see and wait and I will keep you updated.
byto253
·2 years agoI am fortunate enough to have a US side parcel holding service that will hold a package for 1 year for $5. I use that for returns that are very expensive to ship across the border, or have possible issues. It is 1.5 hours a way but we get that way once or twice a year.
And when we do go I will ship from the US side if there are sales to go - I will try to post up and trigger sales on bulkier items to ship from the US side.
If you sell to the US and it can work, some kind of contingency return address like that is usefull.
rocketscollectibles
·2 years agoUnfortunately that's a case lost because of a lack of knowledge. Don't blame ebay.
Not sure about other carriers but buyer did not lie.
USPS internationally restricted items:
Prohibited Lithium Battery Shipments
What's your expectation here if he can't ship back tho. Have the buyer pay for an item not as described that you even admit being your fault, and you keep their money?
From date of sale nov 26th and case closed dec 6th. I suspect you did not accept return in the case in rules too. A return accepted in the case would have switched to status awaiting shipment on buyer's side. A case closed this fast looks like it was closed for being a case closed without resolution.
chicweb
OP2 years agoWe accepted the return the same day it was requested.
Like I said. The customer could have chose any carrier he wanted. We would have paid. No matter what.
We just want the item back before a refund. Period. It's that simple.
rocketscollectibles
·2 years agoWe accepted the return the same day it was requested.
Cases don't close randomly in buyer's favor and this fast when you accept return in-rules in-case, so something is missing. As said the cases turns into awaiting shipment status on the buyer side. Did you clicked on 'accept return' then 'can't provide label' or only told by words to return? Only 10 days between purchase and case closed. That's a delay looking like a case closed without resolution or a request to ebay to step in. After accepting return and selecting that you can't provide a label it even adds extra days to case to allow sellers to find a solution. Something is missing.
chicweb
OP2 years agoNothing is missing, that's the thing.
And yes, I chose "Cannot provide a label" since... I cannot buy United States label. Thinking back, I would have bought a FedEx label and send it to them, since they can ship this kind of item internationally, as far as I know.
But I still told the customer that I would pay for it, any way they want, for any carrier. To just tell me the amount.
Maybe the problem was that we discussed about it in private message on ebay and not in the return page? After I accepted the return, the chat on the return was not available anymore.
But that's it. There's nothing more to this.
The customer had until the 10th to send it back. They decided to open a case before, because they couldn't ship with USPS and they not even tried anything else to ship it back.
alacar-8
·2 years agoBut you are still leaving, right?
brettjet38
·2 years agoNah, it was just a 24-hour rant sabbatical, and then the reality of the situation kicked back in...
I have been selling on here for over two decades and NEVER would I sell an old used electronic item on eBay, why, it's a minefield of potential problems.
Also, the fact that in general people do not read policies about exporting or importing items, and when one points out those facts one gets criticized as being mean, lol.
Social Media is full of that nonsense...
RULE ONE when SELLING ANYTHING read the rules of exports and returns for said items, it is just not worth the effort to list certain things...
This was a costly lesson for the Seller.
chicweb
OP2 years agoKind of. But the answer of the eBay representative on Facebook for Business gave me some hope.
I'm not sure it will be officially fixed, even if she told me the case was reversed on my side... That just tell me that even internally, they are not agreeing on this...
Was it a rant? Yes. Did it hurted my trust on eBay? Big time. We wanted to sell exclusively here, since I'm a member since 2002, I always liked it as a buyer. But now, we are seeking other channels.
We even advertised our ebay shop with paid ads, but we will direct people to our own website when it's done.
Oh well... Learning a lot, I guess. 😉
chicweb
OP2 years agoNot sure yet. Since it seem ebay is trying to fix this, that gives me some hope.
We wanted to be exclusive on ebay but we are now developing our own website. We are connecting it to ebay, right now to automate some stuffs, etc. We will see how it goes.
Still waiting to see the fix in our account.
One thing for sure, no more electronics outside of Canada. Lithium or not. Lesson learned.
marnotom!
·2 years agoCan you purchase a US FedEx return label from FedEx Canada? Can Canadians purchase return labels from US FedEx?
brettjet38
·2 years agohttps://www.fedex.com/en-ca/shipping-services/service-options/returns.html
It would seem you can...
Strengthen Loyalty With FedEx® Returns
Ninety-five percent of online shoppers in the U.S would shop again
with a retailer that provided a satisfactory return experience.*
Provide your customers with convenient return label options and an extensive network of drop-off locations.
FedEx return shipping solutions are reliable, simple to use, provide convenience and fast turnaround times — all competitive advantages for your business. Browse our selection of return label options below, or get started creating a return label with our step-by-step instructions:
pjcdn2005
·2 years agoAnother option might have been buying a UPS ground label through Pirateship. I haven't tried it but apparently Canadadians can buy US labels through them,
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@rocketscollectibles
FWIW here is the amazon policy on the subject.
Amazon provides specific product packaging instructions for FBA sellers when shipping dry batteries. Some lithium-ion batteries, lithium-ion polymer batteries, and lithium metal batteries are included in this category. Therefore, these products should abide by Amazon's product packaging policies for dry batteries.Mar 16, 2020
Medium lithium cells/batteries may be shipped by ground as lightly regulated, provided they have the appropriate lithium ion or lithium metal mark (as shown above) and display the following marking: “LITHIUM BATTERIES—FORBIDDEN FOR TRANSPORT ABOARD AIRCRAFT AND VESSEL.”
Unsure what their (Amazon) policy is for returns of these types of items. With eBay, a larger shipper "could" potenially be properly trained if it was worth the investment. Returns are a whole other can of worms because for Joe & Judy public it's not something that can be done as 1 of. In the early days and going forward anyone handling Transport of Dangerous Goods had/has to be properly trained/certified. That included shippers, drivers, dockhands and the like. Now with business to individual the whole shooting match has become much more complicated. Doing anything wrong back then (80ies) was ground for dismissal. At the time the course (2 4 hr sessions for shippers/receivers was 150.00. Now it can be taken online for 24.95 (3 Hours) . Plus you need the proper packaging material/labels.
-Lotz
Current fines as per Transport Canada
sparx_63
·2 years agoHello
I have sold phones with lithium batteries to the US.
Lithium batteries cannot be shipped only if they are charged. The issue is in air transport, with the battery possibly causing a fire. There is no issue if they are new and never been charged i.e. a sealed new package.
They can even be shipped by ground when charged, but must be packaged separated from the phone, and the package must have a Transport Dangerous Goods sticker attached. An absolute pain. It would be a difficult return to do for any person unfamiliar with shipping.
Did you look into the possibility of having the customer ship the phone back without the battery? At least the most valuable part would have been returned. Then you could negotiate a partial refund for the non return of the battery.
Getting EBAY customer support, as we all know, is the least effective way of dealing with the issue. I am sympathetic about your bad experience, but I can't help but think that if maybe you came to the forum for help first, we might have been able to be of assistance.
As mentioned by others replying to your post, all online selling venues have their issues, with many possibilities of mistakes being made. All sellers in here have made mistakes and have had sales that have had poor outcomes. It is unfortunately a part of this business we all face. The choice to make is if we learn from the mistake and move forward with a positive outlook, or let the mistake have a greater impact than is deserved.
chicweb
OP2 years agoUnfortunately, the newest iPhone cannot be opened that easily. They don't even have simcards... Asking a customer to open it and remove the battery, etc... I'm not sure they would have done it.
They didn't even cared asking another carrier. They've been to USPS only and that's it. The fact that eBay didn't told them to use another carrier, like we did.. and decided to just refund them and make us pay for it is.... unbelievable.
I understand the customer side of this issue. Of course, and we told them we were willing to do anything to accomodate them, but we need the item back.
If it was an inexpensive item, we would have refunded without question. But it's not the case.
chicweb
OP2 years agoThe main problem, I think, is that eBay decided that:
1. The only shipping carrier was USPS.
2. Since USPS couldn't ship it back, it was too dangerous to ship it back completely.
3. Seller lose the item, the seller refunds.
What about other carriers? Why can't we buy return shipping labels on eBay? Why the seller must reimburse an item and lose it if the customer cannot ship it back? How is it the seller's fault?
That's literally giving items away (and smartphone can be kinda expensive).
Way too dangerous and crazy to even understand why this can happen.
ricarmic
·2 years agoThis is why I rarely sell outside my area of expertise. Whilst I've been selling here for almost 25 years now, I have rarely ventured outside my primary (stamps) selling categories for this reason, I don't know all the trials and tribulations of selling "other stuff".
Having said this though, lately I've ventured "out" a bit more, a lego Canada post truck that was much better sold in lego categories than stamps categories, and some foreign currency in the money categories. So far so good, but they're at least still relatively close to what I'm selling primarily in terms of collectibles. I'd never personally sell a phone here, or if I did I would limit it to Canadians only.
When you have had time to separate the emotion of losing the $150 phone from the overall "separate" business of selling here in your primary categories you may think differently. To my mind this harkens to the days when someone loses a package to the UK and immediately stops selling anything there, that too is an emotional decision vs a business decision. It is very very hard to separate the emotional responses during situations like this, especially in situations where the buyer is being extra difficult or "criminal" but being able to compartmentalize those things are an important skill to build when trying to sell anywhere online, in my opinion at least.
chicweb
OP2 years agoIt is a business decision.
I refuse to put my business, money and my employees income at risk by a company that seem to take random decisions not at all logical or inconsistent with their own policies and what their own agents told me.
If a user don't return an item, the seller don't have to refund. The agent even told me that it wouldn't affect my performance.
My time and money will be best invested elsewhere. 😉
ricarmic
·2 years agoSure I understand your perspective, not sure how many sites you're selling on, ALL the sites I've ever sold on (about 8 now including ebay but given I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast by this time of day there might be more!) have had problems/frustrations/expesive flaws, some to the point that I've had to stop selling on them as well so yes there are for certain very valid reasons for ceasing to sell on a site..... my point was only that it appears that selling something outside your expertise was the bigger issue but I could be wrong.
marnotom!
·2 years agoSo if this is good-bye eBay, how do you plan on selling Smartphones to US customers instead?
chicweb
OP2 years agoWe are not. This one a one time thing.
My own old phone sold as used.
We are selling comics and vinyls but we will go elsewhere to sell them now.
reallynicestamps
·2 years agoI spoke to an agent an hour before explaining the situation. They told me I was doing everything correctly
The phone reps have a terrible reputation for getting you off the phone as soon as possible even if that means giving you the advice you want to hear instead of the advice you need to have.
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851 -> Automated Assistant, type AGENT -> enter. You will then get more options.
The social media Chat accounts are covered by trained eBay employees with some authority.
And you get a transcript so you can compare what you heard with what you were told.
chicweb
OP2 years agoI was with an agent on the chat. They told me to wait for the item to be shipped back before the refund. At this point, everything was correct.
Then the customer open a case. That's where it goes very wrong.
The customer could have shipped any way he wanted... We told him we would pay. Ebay just decided to make me pay and lose the phone.
brettjet38
·2 years agoFind out what you can and can’t ship
Use our tools to see what you’re allowed to ship within Canada and around the world.
chicweb
OP2 years agoThat is not true.
The customer said he CAN'T ship the smartphone with USPS to Canada.
I lost 300$. Overeacting? Really?
I'm not talking about Canada Post. I'm talking about USPS and the customer wanting to return the Item.
So any customer can say they cannot ship a smartphone back and they will win.
We accepted the return, we were waiting for it to be shipped and the customer to tell us how much it costed them. No matter the shipping method.
eBay decided it was too dangerous to ship it back, case closed, buyer wins, I lose 300$.
flipistics
·2 years agoI'd contact them through eBay for Business on Facebook and try to get that decision overturned if I were you.
That said, for a $300 item I would have found a way to get it returned without relying on an apparently questionable customer. There should be options, even if you don't want to drive the 2hrs to pick it up across the border. Buying postage on Pirate Ship and having the border portion and Canadian shipping handled by Shippsy (owned by Stallion Express) would probably work, for example, assuming you couldn't just have it done directly with Pirate Ship's simple export rate (unsure for something that has a lithium battery). Buying a label with Shippo might also be an option.
brettjet38
·2 years agoExpensive lesson learned, here are the rules it took 2 mins to find in the the USPS, you would have got your answer..
NO you cannot ship them to Canada from the US.
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Can-I-Ship-Lithium-Batteries
Can I Ship Lithium Batteries?
Where to locate current regulations regarding the mailability of lithium batteries.
Customers can take to their local Post Office packages containing new lithium batteries installed in electronic devices that are bound for many international destinations, and Army (APO), Fleet (FPO) and Diplomatic Post Office (DPO) locations.
What is prohibited and may not be mailed internationally or to, from, or between APO, FPO, or DPO locations?
Lithium batteries can be shipped domestically, including Alaska and Hawaii. Different requirements apply to domestically-shipped lithium batteries than on international commercial air transportation. See the “Lithium Batteries” entry on the Domestic Shipping Prohibitions & Restrictions page for USPS’ requirements regarding domestic transportation of lithium batteries.
Examples of common electronic devices containing lithium batteries include: cameras, video cameras, mobile/smart phones, Bluetooth headsets, laptop computers, shavers, portable DVD players, tablets, two-way radios, and GPS devices.
chicweb
OP2 years agoThere you Go.
So DON'T SELL SMARTPHONE TO USA. Customer will not ship it back and you will have to refund them and lose the phone.
That's what I said.
I paid for you all to know this, I guess.
Even if this customer could have used ANY other shipping methods out there... eBay still decided to let them win and keep the phone.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@chicweb
@marnotom!
@brettjet38
@devon@ebay
In doing a quick basic check there are currently 6700+ Vintage Cell Phones, 85,000 iPhones and 18,000 + cordless phones listed on dot ca. Just for a perspective. Does this mean there would could be potentially up to that many problems and more if something went off the rails with a transaction and a return was required? Would buyers, if they received the goods be unable to return after the fact? Seller is then left high and dry? Throw in reverse shipped and problem expands big time on these types of category of items. Amazon is able ship items anything with a built in lithium battery because they have the trained staff and network to do so. A basic seller in both Canada and USA in most cases does not. Houston, we may have a problem?!?!?
-Lotzofuniquegoodies
flipistics
·2 years agoYou appear to live in a border town. Is there not a place across the river where you can have packages sent? Most border towns have at least one. Just open an account on Pirate Ship, buy the return label using a ground service, and have it sent there.
chicweb
OP2 years agoWe are not at a border town. We are at 2 hours drive from the border.
Basically, sending smartphone from USA to Canada is dangerous.
Do NOT sell smartphone to US customers or they will just say they never receive it or INAD and they cannot send it back... and they will win. Having a free phone.
mrdutch1001
·2 years agoit is not the phone that is the problem...it is the battery and any sellers listing/selling any electronics/any items that require lithium batteries should know the rules and policies pertaining to lithium batteries and/or as to what can and cannot be shipped across borders...it is the seller's responsibility to be in the know...
Know what you sell
Sell what you know
This is not an eBay problem, this is not a USPS problem, this is a problem of a seller not knowing what can and cannot be shipped across borders...