Canada post is killing business
Summary: rocketscollectibles raised concerns about frequent and unjust rejections of mail shipments, suspecting a specific Canada Post employee is causing the issues. They mention numerous packages being returned for allegedly incorrect reasons, impacting their business financially. Several participants suggest different solutions, such as using a higher rate for bubble mailers or exploring alternative shipping services like Chit Chats. A mix of opinions arises, with some advising adherence to mailing guidelines, while others recommend filing complaints through official channels like the Canada Post Ombudsman. The discussion reflects a broader debate on shipping practices and compliance with existing postal regulations, highlighting frustrations and the search for viable solutions.
I got returned over 20-30 orders now past few weeks. I talked about it previously but i suspect its a single employee, and maybe in a main transit spot, messing up the whole province. This is concerning. Its like someone is spotting specific packages and look to cause trouble on purpose by being over-severe.
On top of letterpost bubbles getting now instantly rejected (and returned damaged bent on purpose), they now reject $0.92 domestic bubble mailers for being oversized, just because its bubble mailers. I do have the canada post tool and the packages are valid. Ive shipped single trading card this way in bubbles for over 2 years... Last week they rejected a white envelope for being 2g too heavy (what a joke), while in rules they must accept 5g difference. I also got totally legit white envelopes 1mm 10g getting returned too on regular basis (employee probably think postage is $1.07). And many more.
I forget many situations. But i have a return for a new reason every week now. There is an employee making fun of returning packages for everything and anything. Its getting totally out of control. I truly would like to understand what the heck is going on.
Ive lost past weeks probably $100 in postage, damaged items, damaged supply, canncelled orders. I face negative feedbacks and late deliveries non-stop. Canada post also clearly losing money returning those packages, while most of them are 100% legit.
Is there a way to do a complaint or something?
Anyone else facing this situation as intense as i do?
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years agoespecially so of a comment coming from someone whose main mission in the forums these days seems to be to **bleep** about ebay, **bleep** about Canada Post, etc.etc etc.
I'm posting legit threads about legit issues that active sellers facing. You hate my threads and everything i post, but read and post on them all the time... I'm done with this community anyway until this is changing. You guys are 3 users with the same behavior ruining most of my threads. Always pointing me or anything i do. This community crucially need an option to block users.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoJust a heads up for anyone who is still looking for a cheap method to ship trading cards or paper items to the USA.
Chit Chats does in fact offer USPS First Class Lettermail. I have looked into it, and you can send goods since there is a customs declaration at the time you print the label. If I recall, it costs $1.31 CAD for anything around 25 or so grams.
There is no tracking, and the letter cannot be non-machineable. Which means, you may have to look into something like Hobby Armor, which are cardboard sleeves shipping that can be used in place of toploaders, and ship in a standard envelope (otherwise known as a PWE), not a bubble mailer. Shipping in a PWE is generally accepted in the trading card hobby, but it is certainly something you should state ahead of time.
If you have any questions about the service, I would encourage you to contact Chit Chats directly, but it seems there is at least one work around to send goods via lettermail to the USA. I suspect other carriers like Stallion may offer a similar service.
_______
Here is some info directly from Chit Chats:
Thank you for reaching out to inquire if you are able to ship trading cards to the US using our letter mail postage.
Trading cards can be shipped to the US using letter mail postage as long as the piece is uniformly flat and can be machinable and does not exceed the following weight (3.5 oz) and dimensions (L x W x H) 11.5 x 0.25 x 6.125 inches.
Bubble mailers cannot be used using letter mail postage, however it would be fine to use standard white paper envelopes.
To comment on value declaration, the value declared will be electronically submitted to ensure that US Customs is aware of the goods being shipped and its respective value.
I hope this information helps. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to respond back.
pjcdn2005
·2 years agoI believe that service with ChitChats is the ebay standard envelope, the one they use in the US. I know a stamp dealer that uses that method and ChitChats to send her stamps to the US. Since they are using usps postage, not Canadian postage they are able to do it that way.
The system that ebay uses for ebay standard envelope isn't a new system or a system that ebay helped implement. It already existed and is called 'metered mail. It is only scanned at the sorting centers so in theory isn't truly 'tracked' but it has more tracking than a regular letter mail so it works well for the US market. That service cannot be used from the US to Canada, just domestically.
Regarding your other post, the problem isn't necessarily the customs form, it may be the cost as well. I know that the UPU helps coordinate international postage between the different countries and perhaps goods in packages rather than in letters is required so that the countries involved get more money for processing the packages. But as I said before, I don't totally understand how the UPU works but @recped might be able to give more insite. He seems to know more about the UPU than I do.
recped
·2 years agoStallion also offers USPS LetterMail, you pay the standard USPS postage fee plus a handling charge to Stallion to get it across the border.
You fill out the same customs information as you would for a package so that Stallion can get it across the border (pre-clearance).
As far as eBay working with Canada Post for some sort of budget LetterPost, I just can't see that happening. LetterPost to the USA at CA$1.30 is already at best a break even proposition. Light Packet was an attempt at that and I presume discontinued for that very reason.
Keep in mind that for LetterMail/LetterPost the volume that eBay could provide would be minimal.
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years agolet Canada Post do what it was intended to do "serve the country"
Sorry but i laughed. The intent of canada post is to make money.
why should trading card sellers get priority treatment?
I took the first random link. Seems it's 2020-2021. So all those stats most likely drastically increased. But it's just to show a general idea of the category.
Trading Card Industry Statistics [Fresh Research] • Gitnux
eBay also aquired the trading card platform tcgplayer for $300 US million since.
Trading cards and sports cards is a dominant category in online sales.
mrdutch1001
·2 years agoand I laughed likewise...especially so of a comment coming from someone whose main mission in the forums these days seems to be to **bleep** about ebay, **bleep** about Canada Post, etc.etc etc.
BTW, "Mandate. Canada Post Corporation's mission is to serve all Canadian residents, businesses and organizations by providing protected conveyance of messages, information and parcels throughout Canada and by providing quality value-added service that earns customers' loyalty.'
reallynicestamps
·2 years agolet Canada Post do what it was intended to do "serve the country"
Sorry but i laughed. The intent of canada post is to make money.
Both right.
The intent of Canada Post is to make money.
But that money goes to the nation's General Revenues and is used to pay for government services.
kh-phdan
·2 years agoHello everyone,
This thread is getting a bit heated. Please remember that it’s fine to disagree with others, but discussion should always remain courteous and respectful.
Thank you for your cooperation.
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years agoYou are penny pinching, and always complaining here on the boards. That's a great way to conduct business...
If you don't like people, you're not force to read and comment all their threads repetitively! To say the same things over and over and over. This is a long-term behavior from you and 2 other users. This is called relentlessness and harassement!
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years agoI shipped thousands packages $0.92. I got maybe 5 returns for not 'being $1.07' in over 2 years. Each time i went to the office with those, the employees APPROVED the $0.92 and said $1.07 was a confusing mistake and there was NO REASON for this return to sender. Literally EVERYONE telling you it's $0.92! Stop acting like it's only me. We had people working at CP showing you enployee guide pages wrote '$0.92 ACCEPT AS IS'. And then you come up with the typical 'you pay $0.92 cause you cheap', this is totally insane.
MUST MAKE TOTAL VALUE OF P STAMP FROM A COIL (NOT THE SINGLE STAMP VALUE)
$0.92 ACCEPT AS IS!
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoYou're right to be disappointed about losing an avenue to send things internationally for cheap that worked before. I think people who point out that you shouldn't reasonably expect to build your business around circumventing international mail terms are also right.
Your best bet is to find other people who have been affected by this and have them join you in writing directly to eBay to request some sort of Canadian to US equivalent of the eBay Standard Envelope program that they have available in the US. (https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/shipping/choosing-a-carrier-and-service/ebay-standard-envelope)
eBay clearly has some willingness to improve their Canadian shipping offerings, because over the last 6 months they introduced two new lower cost options that are exclusive to their platform. Canada Post isn't going to alter international mail protocols so that people can ship cards for cheap, but eBay might have incentive to work with Canada Post to introduce a cheaper service for goods that can be sent as standard letters.
marnotom!
·2 years agoI'm assuming you mean "goods that can be sent as standard letters domestically".
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoSorry, what I mean to say was eBay may have incentive to lobby Canada Post for a service meant to allow sellers to send lettermail sized items to the USA as goods. Something with very limited dimensions aimed at the trading card market with tracking and the required customs documentation.
Tracking isn't even a big deal, although it's a plus. It's mainly the void of service to send lettermail sized goods to the USA that is clearly the issue.
marnotom!
·2 years agoYou'll probably recall that Canada Post offered an untracked "Light Packet" service for items under half a kilo. It was quietly discontinued about five years ago, and I suspect that it didn't have a critical mass of users to make it economically feasible for the Corp.
Counter rate is around C$10 to send a 60 gram item by Small Packet USA -Air as it is. This is actually better than the USPS counter rate for what our American cousins can do for Canada as they don't have an untracked packet option. Again, this is stuff you'll probably know but other people read these threads, too.
mrdutch1001
·2 years agoat current time and until the end of the year, Tracked Packet to USA is available at greatly reduced rate>>>items with packaged weight under 100 g currently available at less than $7.50...
pjcdn2005
·2 years agoIt isn't a matter of lobbying CP to allow it as I don't think that it is their decision. I believe that the Universal Postal Union decides these things. A few years ago the usps stopped sending goods internationally via lettermail and I'm sure that had something to do with the UPU. It just took CP longer to enforce it.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoI am not suggesting people lobby for the ability to send goods without a customs declaration. I understand that is not something Canada Post or eBay could push for.
I am suggesting people lobby eBay to work with Canada Post for an ultra-cheap trading card sized shipping option to send goods from Canada to the USA, similar in size to the eBay standard envelope in the USA. Basically, a letter sized (or size 000 mailer) shipment that can have a customs declaration.
I don't think it's worth eBay's time to introduce a similar option domestically because lettermail already fills that role, and tracking is not the problem that people need solved. The problem people need solved is that they need a way to reach 300M+ potential customers across the border that fits a similar price point to lettermail.
The other out of the box option might be for eBay to work with a company like Chit Chats to come up with something similar to the way eBay handles international shipping from the USA to Canada, where everything goes to an eBay facility in the USA, and eBay clears it and re-ships it to the final destination in Canada. Except, limit this to smaller/cheaper letter or oversized letter sized parcels.
Something like if you typically sell 50 trading cards a week from Canada to the USA, you batch them up and either deposit them with Chit Chats or ship them in Canada to a Canadian Chit Chats location. Chit Chats clears them to enter the USA, and then ships them from their USA depot to the USA customer using eBay standard envelope. Of course, depending on the costs to facilitate that kind of program, the above may be cost prohibitive and defeat the purpose.
mrdutch1001
·2 years agosince this seems to be a trading card seller's dream world then perhaps all the trading card sellers should band together and form their own "postal system"/"card carrier system" and let Canada Post do what it was intended to do "serve the country" as a whole and let there not be all this "lobbying" for "wants" by a small portion of online sellers who seem to think they deserve priority treatment....why should trading card sellers get priority treatment? why should there not be blanket coverage for ALL sellers of ALL "printed matter" goods that no longer qualify as lettermail to USA & International countries?
Card sellers need to get over themselves and stop thinking they are more worthy than others...
wanna sell cards..deal with it...the rest of us "printed matter" sellers have had to accept, adapt, adjust and carry on!
C'est la vie!
Que sera, sera!
flipistics
·2 years agoIn the UK, I believe they've changed their stamp system so that every stamp has a QR code that gives it tracking through the system (obviously not final delivery though). I suspect this would be similar to the USPS, who are (probably) using the eBay standard envelope as a test bed for something similar.
Bringing this in here in Canada would help more than just sellers. A platform like eBay would just give them a way to work the kinks out on a smaller scale before rolling it out to everyone.
mcrlmn
·2 years agoA return of 20-30 orders is not Canada Post's loss of control or an employee making fun of you, etc.
Abide, rather than attempting to stretch the rules would resolve your issues.
Obviously the grace period has expired.
raanana
·2 years ago0.92 or 1.07 ?
Canada Post have an answer on page 10 - 0.92 !!
Lettermail (canadapost-postescanada.ca)
Standard Lettermail prices (customer)
Weight
Postal
indicia
Postage
meter
0 g up to 30 g $0.92 $0.90
Over 30 g up to 50 g $1.30 $1.28
Other (Non-standard and Oversize)
Lettermail prices (customer)
Lettermail Page 10
fh991586
·2 years agoAnd on page 9 of the same document, it states 1.07 (consumer) for stamp/stamps that are not in booklet, coil or panes...
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years ago$1.07 is what you pay when you buy a single stamp of $1.07 at the office. Nothing to do with the rate. They make you pay more because you buy a single stamp. It's simple.
You have serious stubborness issues. You been posting the same thing over and over for over year. I even remember you made a post telling everyone that 'you found the truth and it's '$1.07' and marked your own reply as solution. Stop with the misinformation attempts holy.
Edit:
Page 9 is the price to buy stamps at the office.
Page 10 is the rate and acceptable rate at the meter.
By the way.
fh991586
·2 years agoYou are as stuborn as me, it seems.
The document states different rates for consumers and customers. Consumers are you and me, while customers are the business with commercial contract with Canada Post. You didn't notice the difference between stamps and postal indicia? Not the same at all... Unless you print your own enveloppes with your account number or have a contract, you are not a customer, but merely a consumer.
I actually use a Pitney Bowes postage meter at my workplace, so I know the difference in rates between a meter and individual stamps.
recped
·2 years agoBooklets come in various quantities, many are 10, some are 6, there a few at 4 and the odd one with only 2 stamps. Doesn't matter, buying a single postage stamp for a letter is $1.07, buy at least two and the cost is 92 cents. 92 Cents is the currently the rate approved by Parliment for a Standard Letter.
If you buy 1 P stamp you pay $1.07, if you buy 2 or more it's $0.92
I'm not sure what your goal is to continue to pass off false information.
None of this has anything to do with metered mail, don't know why that was brought up.
fh991586
·2 years agoYes, if there is a special booklet, you may be able to pay the reduced price, but they are not standard, and you never know if they will be available when you try to get them. If you come with a few letters, and ask for stamps, you will pay 1.07 each, even if the clerk gives you P stamps. If you don't buy a full booklet or coil, the price is 1.07 each, even if you buy 2 or 4.
I brought the metered mail in my reply because that what's the rate is for CUSTOMERS, as indicated in the document previously listed that I took the time to join again to my reply (notice the difference between stamps & postal indicia rates?)...
I am definitely not passing off false information, contrary to those who want to pay a few cents less than what is already a bargain price.
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years agoThe consumer is the person who go at the office buying stamps! They consume the products!
The customer is the person who simply use the postal system! (AKA drop himself with preaffixed stamps)
Again it's clear but you simply do not wanna see.
Been proved multiple times with dozens experience shared that it's $0.92. It's a lost case it's really like you just don't want to see. Even when it's clear you attempt to play on words. Stay in your dellusion if you want but stop attempting to do misinformation. So sick of this $1.07 thing.
fh991586
·2 years agoWhere did you get that definition of consumer and customer? Why are the price stated for customers not indicated as STAMPS, but postal indicia and letter mail (the thing you can't get unless you have a contract with Canada Post)?
You are penny pinching, and always complaining here on the boards. That's a great way to conduct business... I wonder why you have all those problems, when I rarely encounter any myself. Oh yeah, it's because I'm wrong, and I don't wanna hear... [insert rolling eyes smiley here]
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoAssume you're operating within the guidelines, it sucks that you're having so many issues. I have shipped thousands of oversized lettermail packages over the last few years. I get a few returns a year for false reasons because sorters are human and make mistakes.
If these are single cards, maybe look into using something like Hobby Armour sleeves and paper envelopes. I am unsure of their weight and thickness, but they might qualify for standard lettermail.
mrdutch1001
·2 years agosince OP claims " Last week they rejected a white envelope for being 2g too heavy (what a joke), while in rules they must accept 5g difference"..well, just where is that written in CP rules regarding lettermail?...fact is Canada Post CAN and DOES reject envelopes based on over the weight limit. I have had envelopes rejected for being 1 g over the weight...Canada Post says rules are rules and that includes staying within the weight limit..
even the basic CP guidelines state: "Each Lettermail™ item must meet our size and weight specifications."
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years agoGuys. I shipped over 1000 bubble mailers domestic $0.92 and this is the first time returning. I won't even bother myself going into this debate. Or the non-sense $1.07 one. Everytime i go to the office with those, they are approved back and the employees are confused of why it was returned. $0.92 is the rate. And bubble mailers are accepted.
flipistics
·2 years agoUse postal indicia. Once it's accepted at the post office, there's no price or any indication of whether it's going regular or oversized lettermail.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoThis is good advice, but there are two downsides.
1 - Some high-volume sellers buy discount postage. This can save anywhere from 10-40 percent.
2 - Some sellers deposit their mail in a local box. For a high-volume seller who will drop off lettermail daily, their post office might be farther than their closest box. They may have to wait in line at the post office. Overall, this could add up to dozens of hours of wasted time over a year.
msau4301
·2 years agoYou've gotten advice from many people here already so it would seem only you can decide what to do if this has been happening so much to you later. If it's better to pay a little extra money, in the case of Canadian orders anyways about a dollar from .92 you've been using to the $1.94 oversize cost and maybe avoid all the lost/returned/damaged packages you said you've been getting. Even if you tried a couple as an experiment, if none of them came back you would know that's the issue. Most buyers wouldn't be upset about a $1 increase I would hope. I won't address the US shipments of course, that's totally different as you are aware.
Like others have mentioned, I too have the measuring guide (official from Canada Post directly) and agree with lotz said, when there is any doubt I go up to be safe.
rocketscollectibles
OP2 years agoIf it's better to pay a little extra money, in the case of Canadian orders anyways about a dollar from .92 you've been using to the $1.94 oversize cost and maybe avoid all the lost/returned/damaged packages you said you've been getting.
We should not have to pay more than what it cost to have our packages getting delivered. We should not have to assume mistakes and/or misunderstandings of some employees by overpaying. Applying $1.94 instead of $0.92 may work for casual selling, but any serious seller will throw thousands dollars on long term by doing that. Those packages are legit. It's canada post responsibility to fix their issues and honor their shipments.
msau4301
·2 years agoYes, I saw dinomite sales response just above yours here and I think they work for Canada Post so by all means they would have a good knowledge on the subject, so do what you think is right, especially if you have a large volume of these small size mailers going out.
I had not heard of ombudsman before but I saw link marnotom had posted earlier on here and now from dinomite so that is good to know.
reallynicestamps
·2 years agoI bought this on eBay Canada a couple of years ago and it has been some of the best money I have ever spent.
recped
·2 years agoThe issue is that you are attempting to ship "goods" via LetterMail/LetterPost to the USA. Goods are NOT allowed. The people are telling you it's because they are not paper are incorrect, what the "goods" are made of is irrelevant.
This rule was first instituted about 15 years ago, it is part of an International policy change by the UPU (Universal Postal Union). The goal is to completely seperate actual letters which do not require customs processing from all other mail which can require customs processing.
Enforcement has been very spotty and seems to go in waves, right now there are quite a few reports that enforcement in Quebec (Montreal) has been ramped up since January 2023. If you continue to attempt to bypass the no goods rule you will find more and more of your LetterPost shipment returned to you.
Nobody likes this but it IS the policy and is becoming the worldwide standard.
As far as your domestic shipments, it's NEVER be possible to send ANY type of bubble mailer via standard Lettermail as they exceeed the maximum thickness for Lettermail which is 5mm, they can be sent using O/S Lettermail which has a thickness limit of 20mm, the lowest cost for these $1.94 (up to 100 grams).
I'm not sure what basis you have for complaining as it's clear you are not following the published rules.
mrdutch1001
·2 years agoTotally agree!
Any seller who continues to play roulette with the Canada Post rules, policies, guidelines should not be complaining that their packages are being rejected/returned...Canada Post is following their own rules, policies, guidelines and are doing their job and Good on them!
Unfortunately, there will always be those sellers who will continue to defy/ignore the Canada Post rules, policies and guidelines,but sooner or later it will indeed result in "killing business" and perhaps eventually those sellers will get it right and drop this idea that they can "cheat" the system. The only thing out of control here is the number of sellers who think they can/should be able to disguise, find workarounds to avoid shipping their goods/merchandise in the correct manner.
brettjet38
·2 years agoThe Truth Hurts, and you are on point...
hansatrade
·2 years agoDoesn't not EVERY bubble mailer AUTOMATICALLY qualify as oversized (+5 mm)?
fh991586
·2 years agoYeah, I've never seen a padded enveloppe fitting the 5mm slot, even the paper pulp ones...
The OP could bring a couple of samplers at the PO's front desk to make sure they are ok as is, and then monitor if those exact shipments come back. With before/after pictures, the case for complaint escalation would be a lot beefier.
Also, there were many long debates here that 92c of stamps was supposed to be ok for regular mail shipping under 30gr, when you don't have P stamps. I stated no, and was corrected by many using the official post master's guidelines (the ones you can't see unless you work at Canada Post), but it's always risky for such a small penny-shaving economy... Just pay the 15c more, for your own sake! Or use a stamp meter (which might cost you more in the long run).
ricarmic
·2 years agoI have the same plastic guide as they have in the post office (advantage of living in a rural post office they "got me one" years ago). I can get the ebay branded bubbles through but even empty they need some "tugging" to get them through. My own experience over the last 45 years is everything from "even if they have to stand on the plastic thing to tug them through they're ok" to "it can't tug at all". Different PMs/staff have different interpretations as to what's ok. I don't know what the sorting machines accept, I believe they must have some extra tolerance as in the "even if they have to stand on the plastic thing to tug them through they're ok" days I didn't have any come back.
Yes the 92c vs $1.07 saga is never ending. Whilst I use older stamps on my packages, (often a combination of older and modern but that's because I'm selling to stamp collectors), I've never put 92c worth of smaller stamps on the "92c" lettermail letters because of the $1.07 saga. There's no sense in risking both time and cost ($$ and ratings) to have them coming back because someone doesn't understand 92c worth of stamps is ok. Its really a moot point in my case because again since I'm sending to stamp collectors I'm putting the recent "P" stamps on the letters anyway. Even if that weren't the case, I'd be using "P" only stamps as a risk averse approach to mailing the 30g stuff for the reasons I mentioned above.
byto253
·2 years agoMy understanding is that standard mail for the 92 cent rate has to be 0.18 mm or less. I think that pretty well excludes bubble mailers does it not? For those ones, I don't think it would be an employee but the sorting machines spitting them out.
Don't know about the oversize returns, something is not clicking there if domestic is coming back.
dinomitesales
·2 years agoMaximum thickness for Standard Lettermail is 5 mm. Maybe you're thinking of 0.18 inches, which is close to 5 mm?
I also have #000 bubble mailers that can easily pass through the Standard Lettermail slot with a card or two in them so are fine to go with single permanent stamp. I haven't had any returned, but I also don't sell the volume of cards that rocket does.
It definitely seems like this is an issue specific to his area. Once a piece of mail leaves the first point of processing it can't be returned to sender for insufficient postage and must be delivered as addressed. My suggestion is to compile all the information you've collected, including photos of items that are incorrectly being returned to you, and file a complaint with the ombudsman. Something needs to be done about this.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@rocketscollectibles
Have you taken any of your recently returned packages to your local depot and asked why they are being returned? That way you will know what or if you misinterpreting the rules. On any of those returned envelops did it suggest how much postage they were short?
-Lotz
lotzofuniquegoodies
·2 years ago@rocketscollectibles
I think what might be slipping through the cracks is your definition of letter mail vsbubble mailers with Canadapost. Have you tried sending your bubble mailers using 1.30 stamp? See highlighted below. Personally, for me if it's even almost close I regularly use 1.94 (vs 1.30) for my bubble mailers. Saves something being delayed. When I measure any of my stock of bubble mailers they average between 40 and 60 mm empty. I have had bubble mailers with printed matter that have been snug sliding in the community mail boxes mail slopt. To risk damage I just take to a larger red mail box. I've even been able to locate the cb mailing envelops and using instead if it's something I don't want to risk being damaged in transit
Canada
-Lotz
marnotom!
·2 years agohttps://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/ombudsman/