Canada Post Ordered Back To Work Pending Approval From CIRB
Summary: The discussion revolves around the Canadian Labour Minister Steve MacKinnon's invocation of the Canadian Labour Code to order Canada Post employees back to work without requiring a vote, following an ongoing strike. ilikehockeyjerseys explained that this involves extending the current collective bargaining agreement if the CIRB agrees the parties are at a stalemate. Various participants, including mrdutch1001 and ricarmic, discuss their frustrations with the strike's impact on eBay sales and shipment delays. femmefan1946 and byto253 share concerns about the situation affecting Christmas shipments, while john_koenig99 expresses concern over orders stuck in transit, highlighting the backlog. Finally, silverpinups confirms that Canada Post workers returned to work, but the system remains congested. flipistics and others report experiencing delayed deliveries but note improvements as services resume.
https://x.com/stevenmackinnon/status/1867588692560531609
The Labour Minister Steve MacKinnon invoked his authorities under the Canadian Labour Code to request that the CIRB (Canadian Industrial Relations Board) order Canada Post back to work and extend the terms of their current collective bargaining agreement.
This does not require a vote, instead the CIRB has to agree that an agreement between both parties under the current circumstances is unlikely. There was some speculation the last week or so that this might happen since it is an avenue to force Canada Post back without requiring a vote in Parliament.
phc64
·1 year agoI received my first Christmas card today:)
flipistics
·1 year agoI got an email from Canada Post this morning that says they've now returned to full service levels for domestic parcels and have reinstated the on-time service guarantees (although the peak season guarantee is still in effect through the 12th). Incoming international mail may still have a slight delay. Lettermail appears to still be bogged down (or at least transaction and neighbourhood mail is, so I assume regular lettermail probably is too).
lotzofuniquegoodies
·1 year agoFor anyone that switched to UPS because of the strike
On the I guess you could say flip side are sellers that switched to UPS during the strike are still being charged the 2.00 surge price as per attached announcement or is this going to stay a "thing" for the foreseeable future even though the strike has been resolved?
https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Announcements/Updates-regarding-UPS-shipping/ba-p/514721
Due to a surge in shipment volumes, as of December 8, 2024, UPS has applied a demand surcharge of $2.00 CAD to all parcels in its Canadian network—domestic shipments, imports into Canada, and exports from Canada to the United States. This surcharge has been reflected on eBay Labels and in calculated shipping starting December 10, 2024. If you purchased a UPS label on eBay between December 8 and 9, you will not be issued the surcharge.
There has been nothing from eBay officically and was unable to find anything from UPS as to this being removed/cancelled. Did only sellers see this charge or was it reflected using calculated shipping and buyers paid that amount when they paid for shipping?
msau4301
·1 year agoI got an email from Canada Post this morning that says they've now returned to full service levels for domestic parcels and have reinstated the on-time service guarantees (although the peak season guarantee is still in effect through the 12th).
Yes, I got that email too and have one parcel sent out this week that would confirm things are pretty good.
I was completely amazed to have sent my niece her Christmas present on Monday (had been waiting for things to calm down) and it arrived to her on Tuesday, one day later! It was within my province, Ontario, but she is not in a major centre at all so I was shocked. I use Expedited Parcel so I could have the insurance coverage (and it costs the same as regular for Small Business customers) but I certainly didn't expect it to be even faster than usual (usually takes 2 days so I figured would be 3 or 4 but only 1 ).
ricarmic
·1 year agoExpedited parcel ON to QC mailed January 2, delivered today January 6. So parcels are moving nicely.
(2 Tracked packets to USA on Jan 2 or 3 are also in US or through US customs now too).
Don't have any reliable info for lettermail.
romancranch
·1 year agoMy last 2 stuck items (one from Nov 1) finally arrived to Canada today and cleared customs. It says expected delivery Jan 7th on the CP website.
flipistics
·1 year agoI ordered from the shipping supplies store on the 23rd and the package came in yesterday to the PO (30th), so that was fairly quick. Mind you, I also ordered from the shipping supplies store on the 26th and they haven't shipped that order yet. That's not on Canada Post though.
I also ordered something from Texas with 1-3 day express UPS shipping. It arrived in a town 45 mins away from me on the 24th (in under 24 hours) and hasn't moved since. Very unhappy about that one. The UPS network may be pretty congested still.
That's a good reminder for people btw, remember to use your coupon by tonight if you haven't already.
john_koenig99
·1 year agoThe backlog is not clearing up, I think . They are not following FIFO.
Today I received an order I placed on Dec 18. All the way from India, so that was very fast.
However, my US order from Nov 5 is still showing last updated in Chicago, sitting there since Nov 18. No updates. Same for an order from Spain, which was pruchased in Nov 13 and sent to Canada Nov 20, according to the now frozen tracking.
romancranch
·1 year agoThis is from the Germany Post website (translated with google) about sending from Germany to Canada, or if your waiting for packages from Germany.
Your shipping to Canada Temporary notice Current notice Despite the strike at Canada Post, which was ended by government intervention, standard shipping to Canada will remain suspended until January 2, 2025. As soon as the airlines are able to send international shipments to Canada again, we will start transporting temporarily stored shipments to Canada. From January 2, 2025, we will also be accepting packages and parcels for standard shipping to Canada again. However, please expect that the Canadian Postal Service will need a longer time to clear the global backlog. You can send urgent shipments to Canada by express in our own network.
romancranch
·1 year agoOne more of my items shipped from the USA Nov 5th has now arrived to Canada. So just 2 more stuck ones to update.
fergua3
·1 year agoi still have had no lettermail or even flyers since the strike ended.
2 of my 4 incoming international packages have been processed. One is available for pick up at the Post Office. The other seems to be stuck/lost for the moment. No updates in a few days despite it having left Montreal for Toronto several days ago. The second incoming package of mine that was processed went from Montreal to Toronto overnight and is the one available for pick up, but the first one processed is not moving....both were being sent via regular mail. So, there seems to be great discrepancy in processing speeds even from the same location to the same location.
All packages i sent after the strike ended were delivered very quickly. Some surprisingly so. A package to Germany arrived in 6 days.
phc64
·1 year agoA purchase I made that was shipped via Lettermail on December 17 (the day postal workers went back to work) from Toronto (about a 2.5 hour drive away) arrived today, thirteen days later. Things are definitely not yet back to normal.
romancranch
·1 year agoOne more of my packages from the USA has updated that was shipped Nov 21 but sent with Ebay standard delivery. (and not ebay international shipping) Cleared customs and was in Toronto Dec 28th and arrived here to Sask. on Dec 29th so probably delivered tomorrow. One of my other items shipped Nov 1st still not updated from in transit. And things I've bought recently are moving through. It's those items right in the middle that are stuck somewhere.
reallynicestamps
·1 year ago@dinomitesales
Have any CPO employees mentioned working overtime or have you seen any 'casuals' being hired on to help clear the backlog?
I know Canada Post has a roster of casual and temp workers who are called in as needed. They were part of the union demands- that those workers get the same benefits as full timers.
The names on the roster can be there for years.
I know of one guy who, hoping to get on with Canada Post, worked with his dad as a realtor for at least five years, since the CPO paid better and had a pension.
dinomitesales
·1 year agoSorry for the late reply. I haven't spoken to anyone in person about this, but it has been widely shared on the CanadaPostCorporation subreddit (by letter carriers) that Canada Post has not been granting any overtime since the strike "ended" on the 17th. There have been several reports from temps where they indicate they have not been called either. Granted, there really isn't any need for letter carriers to be working overtime at the moment as they aren't getting all that much mail to deliver. But if they're restricting OT at the main sortation plants then that creates a bottleneck getting mail out to the depots for delivery.
It seems as though Canada Post is just trying to save as much money as possible. No overtime or nonessential workers, no urgency to clear the backlogs, etc.
fergua3
·1 year agoStill waiting for 2 international packages from Germany, they haven't budged since strike ended. I have received 2 out of 4 packages i have been waiting for. Finally got my first piece of mail on Jan 3.
Some good news....USPS will start accepting packages and mail for Canada as of Monday Jan 6.....this is according to the USPS website.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoBut if they're restricting OT at the main sortation plants then that creates a bottleneck getting mail out to the depots for delivery.
It seems as though Canada Post is just trying to save as much money as possible. No overtime or nonessential workers, no urgency to clear the backlogs, etc.
That might be an interesting titbit to share with your MP.
Parliament sits again on January 27.
fergua3
·1 year agoNot surprising to me. CP also lost the whole Christmas season revenue. Why would they now pay overtime to clear the backlog from the strike. It will get cleared in time; new packages entering the system are flying to their destinatons. They want to encourage people to ship with them again.....that's top priority.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agowhich includes Registered Lettermail, so this likely indicates prioritizing parcels over letters.
Any observations on Expedited letters in branded envelopes?
inbound international items destined for Canada mailed after Nov 15 are MIA - I assume there is a huge backlog lof items at customs
Some US sellers are reporting that USPS is still not accepting /or shipping parcels destined for Canada.
marnotom!
·1 year agoWell, that seems to be in line with the USPS December 23rd Service Alert that stated pretty much that the situation was still being monitored and it would likely be a couple weeks or so before mail to Canada would start being accepted again.
dinomitesales
·1 year agoThe XpressPost or Expedited "letters" in the branded envelopes are treated as parcels, so I haven't observd any significant delay in those provided they were mailed after the 17th. The majority of what we've been receiving at the post office are actually these items - mostly passports from the passport office (which makes sense because they've been holding them since Nov 8th apparently), and notices that are sent out via Certified Mail (Expedited) from our local car insurance agency here in Manitoba.
Yes, USPS is still not accepting mail for Canada, it's stated on their Service Alerts page. They indicated on Dec 23 that they hope to begin accepting mail for Canada again "within the next two weeks".
john_koenig99
·1 year agoYeah, same thing with Australia Post. They say that they are "monitoring the situation daily" and are hoping to restart service "as soon as possible". What a mess.
dinomitesales
·1 year agoDespite Canada Post saying that mail would be cleared on a "first in first out" basis, that appears to not be the case, although I'm not sure exactly why. The carriers in my area have very little being sorted for them to deliver, and from what I'm seeing this is a recurring theme amongst depots across the country. I'm not sure exactly where the bottleneck is occurring, but I assume it's at the major processing/sortation plants - they might just be understaffed or suffering due to Canada Post's current limits on working overtime. At the post office I work at we're receiving maybe a handful of parcels per day that were carded for pick-up, when I would expect significantly more considering the backlogs being touted by Canada Post. I'm talking like maybe 10-20% of the usual volume I experience in the dead of summer.
My random observations are that any parcels currently being mailed are moving fairly smoothly with limited delay. Lettermail isn't going as fast, which includes Registered Lettermail, so this likely indicates prioritizing parcels over letters. Domestic items mailed just before or during the strike (dropped in a mailbox, for example), are moving a lot slower or not moving at all. Many inbound international items destined for Canada mailed after Nov 15 are MIA - I assume there is a huge backlog lof items at customs that is taking a long time to get transferred over to Canada Post.
chicweb
·1 year agoI think, for lettermail vs parcels, it's because it is less impacting for them, PR wise, to process the items with tracking first. That's what customers sees directly with their own eyes. By processing them first, they calm down a lot of people having an eye on the process.
For lettermail, people already know it's slow. There's no way to know where or when it will arrive. That's a good buffer for them.
I personnally think the bottleneck is with the international incoming packages stucked at custom. By striking during the holidays and because the USA and other countries took their sweet time before refusing to ship to Canada, the backlog there must be enormous. There's also maybe a backlog in the sending countries? Pair this with the holiday's vacations... and that would expain.
I might be wrong, but that would be logical.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·1 year ago@dinomitesales
@chicweb
I'm up to a grand total of 3 pcs of junk mail in 9 days since back to work order was given. Have yet to see any of the flyers that used to showed up like clock work. I know there should have been a few bills in the mail I should have gotten by now. When I have spotted my postal person recently (community mail boxes) he appears to be wayyyyyy behind schedule.
Regarding the late bills is it going to be a situation of why didn't you pay vs why didn't you mail blame game for anyone late with paying? Do most people still pay on receipt, auto withdrawl or depending on their budget? Will really depend on your personal financial situation. Personally I have never/will never be a fan of option 2.
Totally it is most likely with the parcels getting priority. They take up the most room, are the PR nightmare and the sooner they are out of sight, out of mind with CP the sooner everything else will get back to somewhat normal. It may also be possible that mail to businesses may be getting priority treatment vs mail joe and judy q public.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoHave yet to see any of the flyers that used to showed up like clock work.
It would surprise me if any business would send out or even print up any flyers until they were sure they would reach the customer in a timely manner.
I haven't seen many either, except for one of those bundled ones from local businesses, which are not about time-limited sales.
I know there should have been a few bills in the mail I should have gotten by now.
I've received two bills, one overdue on arrival and one about two weeks later than usual but two weeks before payment required.
fergua3
·1 year agomy own personal experience is mirroring your observations. Of my 4 inbound international packages, one finally moved and it was the most recent one sent, arriving in Canada on Nov 30. It went through customs a few days ago....so i don't think anything is stuck in customs per se.....packages are probably being held in some storage facilities by CP awaiting processing....the first step of which is to send them to customs.
It make sense to me that they are NOT being processed in a first recieved, first processed order as that is probably impossible as more recent packages will be stacked in front of the older ones, makng them inaccessible until the more recent ones are processed.
And still no letter mail, despite expecting a few pieces.
The inbound package to me did get processed very quickly once it moved and should be here Monday....4 days processing time total The flat rate box i sent from Toronto to a small town in Sask. arrived very quickly as well, 9 days. Could have been 6 but it wasn't delivered Christmas Eve as it was marked to be.
dinomitesales
·1 year agoYeah, I don't think anything is currently being delayed by customs themselves, but as you've indicated there's certainly a bottleneck going from customs to Canada Post. I can't even imagine the amount of piled up parcels that must exist that have been processed by customs but were unable to be handed over to Canada Post. I don't know where they were storing them, but there's gotta be warehouses and trucks and trailers full of the stuff.
Anything being cleared through customs now is going to take a long time to eventually get delivered as it's going to be at the very back of that backlog.
fergua3
·1 year agothe backlog isn't exiting customs. When parcels come to Canada via the postal system they go to Canada Post first, then CP hands them over to customs. During the strike the packages still went to CP first but they were stored instead of handed over....i assume management employees were in charge of arranging storage. Weeks worth of packages piled up, somewhere, and once the strike ended then they started to be handed over to customs, almost certainly on a last in first out basis....the 2 packages i have now had processed are the most recent and the second most recent sent. The oldest packages still have not been processed.
The 2 packages i'va had processed entered and exited customs very quickly and were then processed by Canada Post within an hour and 'in transit' within a couple of hours or so.
romancranch
·1 year agoI got just 2 of my USA items delivered so far. Still waiting for 4 USA items stuck. Still saying in transit to destination country and no tracking update. One shipped Nov 1st too. I'm guessing when the USA stopped accepting mail to Canada, all mail en route to Canada stopped as well.
The USPS announced Dec 23 they are still not accepting mail to Canada, maybe another week yet. And a Ebay seller from Germany I buy from says looks like Jan 2nd will be the first day he will be able to send to me with Germany post.
Mail shipments from US to Canada remain suspended - Sault Ste. Marie News (sootoday.com)
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoUSPS is accepting new Canada Post mail. I have an item that I sent on December 23rd. It is already moving through USPS sorting centers.
I have three different batches of Tracked Packet items dropped off in 3 different boxes (one picked up by my local mailman) and there are no scans at all. So that tells you it's a very YMMV proposition.
fergua3
·1 year agoOther countries are accepting mail FROM Canada. But it is hit and miss which countries are accepting mail TO Canada. Seems almost nobody is at the moment, despite CP removing the restriction on the 23rd.
All countries may have backlogs of Canada bound packages sitting with them that they want to clear first before they will accept more Canada bound mail.
Of my 4 packages incoming from Germany, still none have had a single tracking update. And i still have not received a single piece of mail or even junk mail....although my letter carrier did come to my building on the 24th, for the first time since the strike ended, but he walked right past my door and delivered nothing to me, even though i am waiting for several pieces of mail.
I have read on a couple of Reddit boards that CP has not been offering any overtime to workers since the strike ended and has cut back on seasonal workers, so backlogs are clearing more slowlly as a result of the reduced manhours. Don't know if that is reliable info but i have read it several times posted by several different posters.
john_koenig99
·1 year agoBy the way, a seller from Spain cancelled an order I placed just before Christmas, indicating that Correos de España, their post office, is still not accepting packages to Canada, due to the "ongoing strike disruption". I'm not sure if that's the same for other European mail services.
marnotom!
·1 year agoI had an order from the UK cancelled for the same reason. I suspect most postal services are going off the same playbook as USPS and waiting until the new year before considering sending mail over here.
regs43
·1 year agoI recieved Lettermail the Thursday after they were back (one was an ebay order), and then Friday as well (Bills lol).
Still waiting ona new credit card to arrive, not even sure if the bank mailed it or not.
My dad recieved something he ordered from China in Middle/late August that he was shocked came, so that was nice. It had cleared in Vancouver in like October. I had noticed slow downs of mail in Late September/early October on some stuff I had mailed out, but all that stuff had arrived before the strike.
john_koenig99
·1 year agoWell, finally I can report a pre-Christmas miracle. Yesterday, I received 3 of my 5 US orders that were stuck since the beginning of the strike. Also, one of my overseas orders arrived as well.
So I'm down to 6 orders pending. I guess their seasonal grind is paying off. Hopefully, I will be reporting more arrivals soon. And then maybe, just maybe my sales will raise again.
romancranch
·1 year agoJust giving an update here. Got 6 items coming from the USA with the Ebay International Shipping. So 2 items from one seller bought Oct 31 and shipped Nov 1st. They got split into 2 shipments. The one item (through Ascendia) now on CP website says cleared customs and expected delivery tomorrow Dec 19th. The other item went through DHL e-commerce and still shows in transit to destination. Then another of my items shipped Nov 4th (through DHL e-commerce now says on CP expected delivery Friday Dec 20th. My other items in transit Nov 15th still not updated. So things are moving.
sin-n-dex
·1 year agoTo add to this... my roommate ordered a coin a week or so before the strike started, and he got it delivered on Tuesday right when they returned to work.
I'm hopeful my few packages that were mailed before the strike get delivered soon. Watching for feedback, one customer I think will send me an ebay message to let me know. He's been communicating with me every time I've sent an update (believe it or not, some Canadian buyers are not aware of the strike... one messaged me to ask why I don't ship to Canada anymore and was surprised when I told him of the strike).
C.
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoI ordered a CD player from China that was in Mississauga at the time of the strike. It was delivered the second day of Canada Post coming back.
I am not sure that I have received any lettermail yet.
fergua3
·1 year agoi have 4 packages coming from Germany that all landed in Toronto during the strike . Not one has been delivered or even had a tracking update. They were coming DHL paket and handed off to CP.
Not only have i not had any lettermail delivered...i haven't even had a CP letter carrier in my building since the strike ended. i live in the Toronto area.
msau4301
·1 year agoLike you I haven't received a single thing yet (I am also in GTA - Oakville). Only thing that has been in my mailbox are flyers. No mail yet, no parcels (my daughter is waiting on three).
fergua3
·1 year agolucky you......i haven't even had junk mail...lol. Like i said, there's been no letter carrier come to my building since the strike ended. I'm guessing he took a bunch of personal days, or medical days or vacation days and there is nobody to fill in for him.
The lack of parcels is odd considering CP has been saying for days now that the vast majority of backlogged parcels will be delivered by Christmas. So either you and i are going to get a glut of packages today, or we're in the minority....
ericsells75
·1 year agoI'm staying on Time away until the new year, the system will be so backed up......
flipistics
·1 year agoThis is likely my plan as well, but I'll kind of play it by ear.
I'm thinking now would be a good time to delist everything so when we come back off time away we can sell similar on them. Things theoretically should get the new listing bump.
ricarmic
·1 year agoI as well am staying on Time Away until likely at least until the end of the year.
My Time Away "month" runs out on December 28th so I'll look at how things look then, but I expect I'll just open/close again with a long term re-opening sometime in early January.
During the down time, I've got somewhere around 500 lots pictured and ready to list once I reopen. Will probably be closer to 750 by the time I do reopen.
I've also had the opportunity for some time to try a less postal reliant experiment that I doubt I'd ever have had time to do without the strike. I've now got 450 lots ready for that, it'll go in January sometime.
teenytrinkets
·1 year agoricarmic
·1 year agoYes, I'm worried about how long it will be until buyers "trust" the shipping services again, which means in the meantime they'll defer or buy not online/elsewhere like A-river. B&M might see a bit of an increase in physical traffic.
Every day's a new adventure!
silverpinups
·1 year agoHere's another article with a little more detail on Canada Post employees returning to work on Tueday...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-post-says-workers-to-return-tuesday-after-labour-board-ruling-1.7146652
silverpinups
·1 year agoCanada Post employees are back to work Tuesday.....
https://vancouversun.com/news/canada-post-workers-return-tuesday
fergua3
·1 year agohm.....i'm surprised there was a Labour Board hearing on Sunday. I assumed it would be Monday.
So i guess that means they will start working again tonight at midnight then? And i can take my packages to the Post Ofice tomorrow?
mrdutch1001
·1 year ago"And i can take my packages to the Post Ofice tomorrow?"...that's your choice.
For myself,no,no way, not only is it too little, too late, I am not putting anything into that mess right now, Nope! that I will not do...I will be waiting until after Christmas to put anything into the postal system....
I have a package to go out today (a sale from my other selling site) which will be shipped via Purolator to the USA same shipping method I used 2 weeks ago...
hansatrade
·1 year agoThe same here. By the way, CP is still blocked by Ebay.
silverpinups
·1 year agoSo i guess that means they will start working again tonight at midnight then? And i can take my packages to the Post Ofice tomorrow?
Here's a little insert from the CTV news article:
Operations at Canada Post will resume at 8 a.m. local time on Tuesday, Dec. 17, the company said, after the Canada Industrial Relations Board ordered a return to work.
I personally would wait a few days before mailing anything.
sweetcryssy
·1 year agoAs tempting as it might be to get back to selling and shipping, I think it's best to wait. The mess of the backlog along with the fact you KNOW there are going to be those individuals who will just HAVE to try and ship whatever they can before Christmas in hopes it will "somehow make it in time", which will only cause even more chaos. It won't be worth the hassle, or headache of having to track the items and hope customers don't get frustrated with the wait and just cancel the order, while it's sitting amongst the backlog of Canada Posts Parcel Purgatory.
It's frustrating, but...better safe then sorry. 😉
flipistics
·1 year ago@sweetcryssy
Not to mention the surge of mailed items from retailers on Boxing Day, especially if a lot of people give monetary gifts this year due to the struggle of getting packages sent.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agoWith the increased postal rates forthcoming mid January I am also using this time to adjust my prices for the listings that will enable me to roll postal increases into both the item price and the shipping costs(have always done it this way) so that the shipping costs are not drastically impacted by the increase and the buyers will only see a small movement upward in the shipping cost.
teenytrinkets
·1 year ago@mrdutch1001
This is a good idea to adjust prices. And since I think @flipistics idea of ending all listings and then relist using sell similar is probably best after such a long period away from selling, it's the perfect time to adjust for increased shipping costs.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoThere probably won't be work to rule.......they are being ordered back to work and have to perform their jobs normally.
Work to rule means doing the job you are paid to do.
And no more.
So if the mailbag weighs more than 50 lbs, stuff is removed until it only weighs 50lbs, even if that means some letters get delivered tomorrow.
Because that's not the job requirement.
If the address on the package is 123 Any Road, and the postal addres is 123 Any Street, it is Undeliverable as No Such Address.
Because that's not the job requirement.
If it's 4:30 and it takes 30 minutes to get back to the terminal, you go back to the terminal and check out at 5pm when your shift ends even if there is just one more stop on your route.
Because that's not the job requirement.
Most employees, in any well run business, go a little farther to make their job better and their colleagues' jobs easier, no matter what the contract says.
But that's not the job requirement.
marnotom!
·1 year agoJust to add to your post, from what I've been reading it appears that Canada Post relies heavily on workers doing overtime in order to keep its wheels greased.
hansatrade
·1 year agoIt's not about the overtime, it's about to do sometimes "a little bit more". Unfortunately, it also applies to other postal services: USPS returned a package to me, because the last digit in 9-digit zip code was wrong. Oddly, by doing this they need to work MORE (handle returns, etc.). The infamous "not my job" rule often prevails over common sense ...
fergua3
·1 year agothanks all for clarifying what work to rule is. I was under the impression that it was a form of strike action ie the most gentle form.
I do know that some overtime at CP is manditory. I used to talk with my former mail dellivery person and he would tell me that he had to work overtime sometimes....ie he said 'they are making me work overtime or 'i have to work overtime'. I was surprised by that because i thought that would be against the law or at least against their negotiated contract rules.
john_koenig99
·1 year agoWell, for my part, I will never, ever using CP for my shippments. Ever. I'm done with them.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agoThat is good for you...congratulations!... but not everyone has that choice. So for my part when the dust settles in January or February or whenever ... I shall be back in Canada Post's arms...a warm & fuzzy thought and for many of us CP will still be the most economcal shipping method for shipping items that are sent oversize lettermail in Canada and Tracked Packet to USA!
triber
·1 year agoI agree, no choice. Not anywhere near alternate mailing options. My 83 year old husband does all my mailing because I am disabled, I am not about to send him to far regions to mail, I will just wait patiently for the strike to finish.
nyb_shop
·1 year agoCanada Post tanked my Q4 sales by at least 80% less compared to prior years. Their greed and our government's inaction costed me A LOT of money. Even if they are ordered back to work, it's TOO LATE.
femmefan1946
·1 year agoAs of December 14, the workers still have not been ordered back to work.
(they can also afford to be since they keep getting paid by the union during strikes.....so it's no skin off their noses to call for a strike).
During a strike the union officers get strike pay, like the workers on the picket line.
fergua3
·1 year agoit would be a good idea, once the CIRB orders the workers back to work if the union tells them to go back right away, even if they have a few days before the order takes effect. Otherwise they are simiply costing the workers several more days of pay, for no reason.
So once the board so orders, which will probably be Monday, the workers will probably go back to work, on Wednesday i'm guessing....if not the union is just being spiteful at a cost to its workers and the Canadian public, whom the purport to care about.
hansatrade
·1 year agoThey are paid by CUPW max. 200 dol./ week, so it surely cannot replace their salary.
darak10
·1 year agopeople who think or are under the impression this is going to be over on Monday, please carefully examine the wording of the announcements.
There is NOTHING in these press releases that indicates this will end Monday or this coming week.
Mackinnon's wording for the timeline of this assessment to recommend the back to work is for the end of 2024, not December 16.
Not to mention the wording of the cp24 article is also entirely conditional, it states:
Mail *could* begin moving again in Canada as early as next week after the federal government moved Friday to end the nearly month long work stoppage. (as we know, could is far from 100%!)
Labour Minister Steven MacKinnon referred the dispute to the Canada Industrial Relations Board, with the aim of ordering the nearly 55,000 workers back to work and extending their current contract until May 22, 2025 — *if* (THE crucial qualifier) the board determines a deal isn’t within reach before the end of the year.
This last sentence qualifies the situation again by referring implicitly to the possibility the board could also just conclude "oh yes, they can make a deal, they just need to try harder - get back to negotiating".
I dont think we should be jumping to conclusions about where we think this is going to go in the near future - I never thought these two groups would be stupid enough to hold the entire country hostage during the peak use period of the year but I was dead wrong - and as such its also wrong to suggest CP will be back up and running this coming week.
They will be back up and running when this board is done their assessment and makes the recommendation to force the back to work. If they make the decision to send them back to negotiation, then all this continues indefinitely. Again, the timeline for this decision has been reported to occur before the end of this month.
That is all we know, as frustrating as this is.
So lets plunk our butts back in our seats, keep on with our lives and unfortunately continue to suck up the financial losses as we frankly have no other choice.
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoIt's 99.9 percent that they are going back to work. It was confirmed to different news agencies by "insiders". I also doubt that they would table this if they didn't have some assurance that the criteria was adequate for it to pass. Otherwise, they would have tried it earlier.
What "back to work" will look like for small businesses or "lettermail sellers" is a different discussion. I wouldn't bet on things being normal, but it might be a positive if people are at least able to get packages in the system and get some cash flow going, even if it doesn't offset the business that they lost because of the strike and might continue to lose until the backlog is cleared and Canada Post is operating at full efficiency.
dobo5250
·1 year agothere is hope but after talking to a high level (head of safety and resources for all of canada) retired union leader be it a car industry union leader yesterday it said that the way it works it will be if they go back before xmas a major work to rule and will cause at least a three week delay for mail to clear form time the union is sent back and then when then accually agree to the the new terms another two weeks after that so if they where to do something monday which is unlikely it will be about jan 20th before we will see regular packages flow -- so by that time i think alot of smaller sellers like myself will be out of business with the cost of doing business just to great to over come maybe if your lucky and things pick up really fast it will take about three months to recover what costs where lost and expenses spent during this strike the longer it goes on the more small business owners go belly up --the part time buy the used stuff at thrift shop and sell for extremely high profits will come back but i am afraid the small seller new items kind of people who have expenses like a regular business or people who live in very rural areas making hand crafted items will not or at least a good portion of them will not if it goes any longer than settling before xmas -- such a state of affairs so depressing -- thanks to all involved
fergua3
·1 year agoit won't be that bad. Most of the workers will be glad to get back to work and making money. There probably won't be work to rule.......they are being ordered back to work and have to perform their jobs normally. Work to rule happens during strike action, usually in the early stages. When ordered back to work the strike is nullified. Besides, most workers will be thrilled to get some overtime to make up for a month's lost wages.
There will be some mal contents, of course, but the vast majority of workers will do their jobs like normal. They are mad at CP, and maybe the Libs, there is little logic in taking it out on the Canadian public, who are the source of their income, btw. They've already done us enough harm.
However, there will be a backlog of packages. Those that were in the system when the strike started and those that poured in for two weeks from the US and abroad before that was halted.
In the 2018 strike it took up to 2 months to clear the backlog.....but most was cleared long before that. And the backlog was way worse back then than it is this time. I recall new packages i sent were a bit slower in arriving, but nothing horrible.......maybe an extra week. And once packages to the US and abroad are out of Canada they wil be processed at normal speeds.
After the 2018 strike there was a brief period of 'peaceful civil disobedience' called for by the union prez. The idea was for workers after or before their shifts to slowly walk back and forth on the sidewalks, blocking access to various postal facilities in an attempt to slow down the mail. It worked until police were called in and the slow walkers moved. Some members from other unions joined in briefly and even Canada's Communist party pitched in.........which CUPW wasn't too thrilled about. Anyway, the whole thing fizzled out after a week or so with little harm done.
postit4me
·1 year ago" in 2018 it took up to 2 months to clear backlog" ... news articles state 3 weeks. Fear mongering spreading rumors.
fergua3
·1 year agoNot fear mongering.......that is a strange thing to call it. I was there. With all due respect to whatever news articles you are referring to, the workers were ordered back to work late November. There will still packages that had been caught in the strike being delivered in late January. I know because one of them was mine.
And i did say most of the backlog was cleared much quicker than that. But not all....some were no doubt overlooked for a long while in all the confusion. From the rotating strikes and subsequent lockout, there were parking lots full of semi trailers packed with mail and parcels. Not hard to believe it took a while to clear all that up, especially with the volume of Christmas mail that was coming in, once the strike ended.
This time will probablly be better as there wasn't as big a backlog in the system when the strike began because there wasn't a period of rotating strikes, like in 2018. However, as i stated, packages have been coming in from the US and abroad for a couple of weeks after the strike started, before that was stopped. So there will be that, no doubt sizable, backlog to clear. I hope it's done in 3 weeks, that would be terrific.
chicweb
·1 year agoeBay sent a notice, I suggest everyone to read it.
Even eBay will continue it's protection.
For my part I think it's good for the packages currently stucked in the system. They will be delivered finally. But, I won't be using them anytime soon.
Until may, there will be a lot of disruptions. The Union won't be happy and will use other means which might affect greatly the shipping service quality.
In may, they might strike again and we will be back in the same situation. Very not stable to use.
But, I understand those who don't have any other alternative. Just expect problems using Canada Post.
fergua3
·1 year agoi doubt there will be a strike in May. If a Christmas strike was to no avail then a strike in the summer, will have a much lesser impact on the public and CP's bottom line. So more lost wages for the workers with a much lower chance of a successful outcome for the union.
Speaking of which, it would be a wise move by the union bosses to send the workers back to work before they are forced. ie on Sunday. No use in keeping them out a few more days until ordered back.....just costing them more lost wages, pointlessly.
flipistics
·1 year agoI feel like they will absolutely strike in May. The union bosses are looking at this as a fight for all unions, not just the postal workers. History has also suggested that they don't (really) seem to negotiate. To be fair, I'm not sure the corporation does either. We seem to have two sides who would rather permanently shut the company down than give in an inch. Even Canada's top negotiator said that the two sides were going backwards in their offers.
I think there's only 3 possible outcomes. One, the government rolls CP back into a fedreral department (probably the best outcome). Two, a contract is imposed, either by the government directly or through binding arbitration. This is unlikely to address the core issues adaquately for either side, and the next strike will be even worse again. Three, they strike until the government gives up and privatizes it (probably the worst outcome for everyone, including the public).
fergua3
·1 year agoyeah the union bosses are more idealistic and feel they have a 'cause' (they can also afford to be since they keep getting paid by the union during strikes.....so it's no skin off their noses to call for a strike). But the workers will have to vote for a strike. They are less idealistic and more concerned with their day to day income. They saw little result from this strike, when Canadians were most vulvnerable, and lost a month's pay. A summer strike, when fewer Canadians will be vulnerable and more will have bullet proofed themselves against the possibility of another strike is likely to be even less productive and just cost many more week's pay. Time will tell.
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoIt is my understanding that the demands of the union are predicated on the idea that the government should intervene and change the law and regulations in order to allow Canada Post to operate as a tax-payer subsidized operation.
As Canada Post currently exists, it is expected to be self-sustaining. It does not have to make a profit every year, but it has to have the cash-on-hand to cover losses, and ideally operates at a break-even or profit. It is my understanding that the position of the union is that Canada Post should be funded by tax payers instead, which would make their ask viable. Under the current law and regulations, it doesn't matter if Canada Post wants to meet their demands, they simply cannot meet those demands and remain self-sustaining.
It's not a black and white issue, because some people argue that the reason they cannot meet those demands and remain self-sustaining is because of bad management, and that the workers shouldn't have to take cuts because the failures of management.
I don't know enough about the situation to know which side is closer to the truth. I am not going to take one side over the other at face value. But it's very clear that with added competition from the "gig-economy" type couriers, something has to change. Either Canada Post has to be able to evolve their business model to compete, or the government has to decide that we the tax payer should be on the hook for a failing business model, because the public good that business model brings exceeds the costs to us in taxes. My guess is that most people outside the union aren't crazy about the second option. People who rely directly on Canada Post for business or people in rural areas might be more accepting of the second option, because as a tax payer they will get more value than the average person from Canada Post operations being subsidized by the entire country.
postit4me
·1 year ago" It is my understanding that the demands of the union ... to allow Canada Post as a tax-payer subsidzed operation" Please provide a reference for this statement. I have not heard this. The Union wants its workers to be safe, have a raise to help keep up with inflation, and not have a second class employees who only work on weekends delivering parcels with no benefits, among other things.
Canada Post claims losses every year because they build or renovated three large plants Toronto ( Albert Jackson ) , Vancouver and Winnipeg. All every high property value areas. They also ordered new vehicles for the lettercarriers in stead of ordering so many per year as they can afford them. Canada Post also handed out bonuses to their very top heavy executives and supervisors. If they lost money why would one do this? That my friend these are the questions that need to be investigated by the government.
ricarmic
·1 year agoYep I'm going to stay "time away'd" until likely the end of December.
I have a recollection that in one of the past "resolved" strikes the reliability of delivery was poor as stuff was misdirected, forgotten in the corner etc. Might just be poor recolletive skills.
Even in the best case there will be a big surge of stuff hitting their processes, and stuff will be slow, along with impatient buyers (which is always true this time of year in a "normal" year) too many headaches to jump in too soon.
I'm very fortunate that I'm heading into "semi-retirement" so I don't depend on the $$$ as much as a lot of people do. (However December isn't really a top month for me anyway in my categories).
I certainly feel for folks who depend on the Christmas season income.
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoI am not going to bother switching to Canada Post until after Christmas. If a customer requests Canada Post and understands what they are getting into it, I don't mind printing a Canada Post label.
I have a large amount of lettermail items, but for the amount of volume and profit I do with them, I'm not in a rush to take them off of the vacation-mode by proxy that they are currently in with expensive UPS shipping. If I was only doing lettermail items and had to shut down for the last month, I WOULD be in a rush to change them back (with appropriate shipping windows to prevent INRs).
For anybody with parcel type items, I would stick with UPS/Fedex/whatever for the rest of the season, unless those services completely break down under the volume. Most people buying over the next week or so will likely choose sellers with the fastest possible shipping options.
fergua3
·1 year agono binding arbitration has been ordered, unlike in the rail and dock strikes. Instead someone has been appointed to look into why the two sides remain so far apart and offer recommendations as to what can be done........should take until spring.
If binding arbitration had been ordered then there would be no strike in a few months. But now there can be. I doubt it though. After losing about $5000 each from this strike, i doubt the majority of workers will be excited about starting all over again with another strike, with new wages losses the result.
Unions always make a fuss about binding aribtration but they always get better deals from it than they are able to negotiate on their own.
john_koenig99
·1 year agoAbout time. It's the aftermath I'm worring about. I have ten orders stuck. 5 from the US and 5 from overseas. I really hope that none will be lost and that I can get them, eventually.
byto253
·1 year agoI guess the polls were starting to trend way to negative. Late in the day for Christmas shipments.
femmefan1946
·1 year agohttps://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mackinnon-labour-dispute-binding-arbitration-1.7409656
Usually more reliable than Xitter.
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoI linked to Twitter because it had the exact full press release from the Labour Minister, which was the most direct source.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agoI doubt anyone needs to "jump for joy" ...just yet. Expect nothing to come of this before year's end...
a "proposal" is not necessarily going to result in anything positive and/or any immediate action...
and for many sellers here on eBay, too little, too late....
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoIt would be a forced extension of the current CBA until May.
The Labour Minister is enacting section 107 of the labour code. That means an agreement isn't required to force them back to work. It also doesn't require a Parliamentary vote. It requires that the CIRB agree that both sides were at a stale mate and nothing was being gained by the strike.
I doubt the Labour Minister would do this if he didn't already know that there was a reasonable chance that it would be approved. They will most likely be back to work ASAP.
https://www.thestar.com/business/federal-government-orders-end-to-canada-post-strike-while-commission-tries-to-reach-new-contract/article_2ec0c9fe-b961-11ef-aba7-9b12d723513f.html
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/economics/2024/12/13/feds-ask-labour-board-to-intervene-in-canada-post-strike/
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6591611
https://www.cp24.com/news/canada/2024/12/13/feds-ask-labour-board-to-send-canada-post-employees-back-to-work/
Obviously, that doesn't help people who lost out on weeks of sales. The system will also be very congested with the backlog of packages.
fergua3
·1 year agoi'm jumping for joy. The CIRB will certainly approve it....just as it did the dock and rail strikes. They will probably be back to work by mid week if not earlier. Union bosses will kick up a fuss and probably challenge in court but i bet 99% of the workers will be glad to be going back.
So despite the 'staying on the sidelines' comment the gov't FINALLY did the right thing. Christmas season is tanked but maybe hopefully a good boxing day/early new year sales bump.
Even if a vote was necessary the Conservatives would obviously support it, given Pollievre's comment a couple of days ago. The problem would have been a multi week NDP filibuster. But it's moot with the CIRB involved....no vote needed in Parlaiment.
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoLike I said in another thread, I am not going to pretend I am an expert on government industrial regulations, but it seems like they wouldn't do this if it wasn't a layup.
It sounds like the CBA will be extended and they will be back to work on Monday.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agoa "forced truce" solves nothing as it is very possible further mail disruptions could ensue midway 2025 if agreements are not fully realized with a peaceful resolve at that time....
so as I said previously don't be too eager to"jump for joy" just yet as that joy could be short lived...
flipistics
·1 year agoI don't think it's meant to solve anything. It just means that all the critical stuff stuck in the mail (like business cheques, passports, etc) plus supplies for northern communities will get cleared through the system.
ilikehockeyjerseys
OP1 year agoIt is not the status quo. It is an extension of the CBA to force them back to work and end the stalemate, but there are also numerous other measures being taken to try and reach a deal. Measures that weren't instituted until this point. Whether those measures will resolve anything, I don't know.
I linked to a few articles in this thread, but I would encourage everybody to read the original press release in the OP along with articles summarizing the events from a few different sources since they pretty clearly state what to expect.
As far as the return to business, I just read an article that seemed to dictate that nothing sent now will arrive until Christmas, because simply resolving the backlog will take such a significant amount of time. With that said, it will at least be a positive that orders can be processed. Especially for sellers who are grandfathered in on the old system and don't have to wait for funds to clear. If this allows some people to resume operation and get at least a bit of cashflow going, that has to be looked at as a positive in a very negative situation.