Ebay complicit in fraud and threatens to charge me as part of fraud
Summary: bn880 is facing a fraudulent return case on eBay, where the buyer falsely claims that the boards received were not working, and is providing fake return shipping information. Despite raising this with eBay, customer service insists on them sending a return label, which is complicated due to cross-border shipping rules between the US and Canada. Participants suggest methods like using Shippo or Pirate Ship to generate a return label, as well as strategies to better communicate with eBay through social media for support. bn880 eventually sends the label but the buyer never returns the item, leading eBay to initially close the case in the buyer's favor. After an appeal, the decision is overturned, yet bn880 expresses frustration over eBay's handling of such cases, suggesting a broken system and possible bot involvement in decision-making. Overall, the experience highlights the challenges of dealing with fraudulent buyers on eBay and the importance of following procedural requirements to succeed in disputes.
I have a case where a buyer is lying about some boards not working for him, sending a photo of just 1 of 2 required boards installed with a fuse removed. I accepted the return, he provided FAKE return shipping information. The time has expired, I asked eBay to step in, and then I had Patak S and Sayan M. put the case on hold, asking me to provide a shipping label to the buyer. The buyer is in the US and I am in Canada so this is impossible and is already AFTER fraud has been committed.
The buyer is a known scammer in the US with a google review record to prove it (1.5 stars with a history of defrauding others).
Ebay now threatens to refund the buyer after 4 days if I don't provide a label. Meanwhile the buyer won't even reply... "I've placed the request on hold for 4 days to give you time to arrange return shipping with the buyer. Please note that if you don't resolve the issue by, 08th July 23. We'll issue the buyer a full refund on your behalf without requiring the item to be returned."
So this is it, eBay excuses fraud, and wants to defraud a long time client to pay off some scammer.
When will eBay make things right, and hire reasonable customer service people?
bn880
OP3 years agoThanks. And Incredible if he gets to keep the money too. Well if eBay wants that kind of client, then they can keep sponsoring his theft.
cardconnoisseurs
·3 years agoA lot of times, you just need to go through the process. A lot of the decisions on the various ecommerce sites have zero human input until it reaches a certain point. Thier business model relies on sellers being willing to "take a few on the chin" to enable them to keep seller support/CS costs down.
But generally the Ebay CS staff will give you the straight 411 on where you stand in a given situation. For example, I had a buyer open a claim for a tracked package that was still within the delivery timeframes. Ebay would not release the funds, but when I contacted Ebay SS, they basically told me in no uncertain terms to just go through the process, and that the claim would be closed as soon as the delivery scan went in. And that's exactly what happened.
Compared to Amazon, Ebay is a *dream*. I would consider murdering someone to have access to the SS CS chat feature that Ebay has on Amazon! Those associates are able to resolve any issues I have 99 times out of 100.
I wish Ebay had the same level of traffic that Amazon has, as Ebay is by *far* the easier way to sell. Despite some of my quibbles about some of their policies, by and large, I love selling on Ebay. The best part is that the rules are generally invioable. So as long as you follow protocoo, you are generally golden. That is *not* the case on Amazon. Their seller agreement literally gives them carte blanche to do as they see fit with your listings, inventory, account balance, and account itself. I have even heard horror stories of them destroying an entire pallet of iPhones a seller had sent to them for their FBA program, because one of the bots accidently flagged it with a removal/destroy order, and Amazon argued that the seller should have been checking their inventory updates. I think that case went to arbitration, as we are talking about high six figures worth of product here.
Back when I relied close to 100% on Amazon for my livlihood, my stress level was never higher. As I have slowly divested myself from full reliance, and migrated listings to Ebay, things have done nothing but improve.
Obviously, sell a product at the market it's best suited to, and I value Amazon, but by comparision, Ebay is a *dream* just in terms of hoops you have to jump through, and the threat of unilateral action.
bn880
OP3 years agoYep thanks, got the case overturned today based on the appeal. What a crazy system.
When the case was originally closed in the buyer's favour it stated that: "buyer "Didn't receive item""
And stated that I had "agreed to refund the buyer but did not."
Pure insanity, and I suspect there are just some malicious agents at eBay. All the crazy decisions were made after hours US/Canada time and before the dates where the case had to be handled.
ricarmic
·3 years agoThe decisions are probably bots decisions. The dates can be misleading, because if they say resolve by July 21 they really mean resolve before midnight on July 20, I've got zapped by something at 12:03 AM of the "due date", learned that lesson the hard way. Might not be your situation but is something to watch out for.
byto253
·3 years agoSuper, congrats on getting your funds back.
I think malicious is giving too much crediit as it implies some thought 😎 . Like @ricarmic said, it is likely you got botted. That's what happened to me as well.
The cruddy and crazy part of it is that eBay is paying for the refund to you, and buddy gets to keep your boards and the refund, just like my person got the audio tubes for free at the end of it. C'est la vie, and hope it does not come up again!
bn880
OP3 years agoYes, they said to file the appeal. So I have.
byto253
·3 years agoBest of luck. Hard to see how it can stand when they were provided the ability to do the return, but that is being logical...
bn880
OP3 years agoWell, the buyer never shipped back the boards with the provided label, and ebay just closed the case in his favour and refunded him.
byto253
·3 years agoHave you contacted eBay? Same thing happened to me and they refunded me. The label is to make the case that you followed the process and the buyer should not have been refunded without returning the boards.
bn880
OP3 years agoI did end up sending the Shippo label a couple days ago... now have to chase up the case.
Likely going to lose 50 bucks on the label, and PROBABLY wasn't necessary after my contacts with support on the client not replying to requests to pay for his label, but ok, safer maybe.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
cardconnoisseurs
·3 years agoI'd file mail fraud charges against the buyer and Ebay.
bn880
OP3 years agoAgain, I am in Canada, it is known to eBay that Canadians don't purchase return labels for Americans. I was messaged by their service reps on that day and told to arrange payment for return shipping, so I disagree with the last 2 messages.
byto253
·3 years agoI had an ugly return situation with a US buyer claiming $500 audio tubes were not working correctly (not true). Instead of a label, which I did not know how to buy from Canada, I messaged the buyer that I could not buy a label and offered to send the shipping funds up front through paypal to cover the shipping. I also talked it through with eBay that said that was correct way to proceed. The buyer just kept saying "send me a label" and would not take up my offer even when I offered an extra $5 to cover gas to the post office. He kicked up a fuss with eBay and ended up getting the case closed in his favour and refunded. But because I had made the offer a few times and it complied with eBay's online suggestions, eBay reversed the charge against my account so I was made whole by eBay and got the refunded money reinstated. I had called eBay at pretty well every stage of the way, and it was an instant reversal by them.
Afterwards I learned that I could have bought a return label from Shippo, which is why we suggested sending a label ASAP, as that would unequivically establish you as complying with the return requirements. flipstics also indicated that pirateship is also another venue for sellers as well as shippo.
My understanding is that you have offered to pay the return shipping after the item is returned. eBay's policy is that if no label, to send funds up front. My concern is that as it stands your reimbursement offer is not compliant and is a risk, even if it seems an eBay rep suggested otherwise.
The policy is:
https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/return-shipping-sellers?id=4703#section5
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"Offer to send funds for the return shipping cost
Use the shipping calculator on the carrier's website to find out how much return shipping will cost. If you're unable to determine the cost, contact the buyer and ask them to provide a quote.
Ensure that the amount includes tracking, and on items that have a total cost of $750 or more, include signature confirmation.
Here's how to send funds to the buyer:
Contact the buyer through Messages, and ask how they would like to receive funds to purchase a return label.
Send the funds using the buyer's preferred method.
Ask the buyer to confirm that they've received the funds, and to upload tracking to the return request so you can see that the item is on it’s way."
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A label takes all this out of the equation and is easily refunded if not used. If paying up front for shipping by paypal I would assume you can put a claim in through paypal if they do not send the good back to you.
We really want you to win this and are just concerned that the case is on a path that is at risk of going against you. Hence the "label" badgering. These situations are a hassle and a PITA for a shady buyer and irritating as heck.
Your call of course, just sharing experience and suggestions. Best of luck.
bn880
OP3 years agoThanks for the suggestion and info. I am considering doing this soon. Wonder if one of those labels is refundable if not used for some time. 🙂
reallynicestamps
·3 years agoit is known to eBay that Canadians don't purchase return labels for Americans.
You can buy USPS shipping labels through Shippo.
You may need to supply your Solutions for Small Business number.
https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/small-business.page?
Or you can lose. Your choice.
femmefan1946
·3 years agoSEND the RETURN SHIPPING LABEL!
Otherwise you are unlikely to see the item again, you will lose the case, and you will get a Defect on your selling account.
Get the boards back, and refund then.
byto253
·3 years agoThis! You are behind the 8-ball and on course to lose the case as you accepted a return due to your item not functioning properly. Whether they are lying or not does not matter now, you need to follow the eBay requirments to the nth degree. i.e. Send the label. If you don't even the bogus tracking info does not matter because you did not send the label.
And if they don't use the label, you can get a refund for it from the label provider.
bn880
OP3 years agoThanks for the replies. I've messaged the buyer one last time to tell him to send the boards back and provide the receipt photo / email and I will cover it. Lets see how eBay handles this after the 4 days are up and the buyer doesn't reply (which he won't)
flipistics
·3 years agoMy understanding is that if you let eBay handle it, they will automatically award the buyer a full refund, he'll keep the board, and you'll get a defect on your account. The only situation I'm unsure of is if eBay has restricted the buyer's account (in which case he may not be eligible for buyer protection), but I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that he wouldn't be able to open a return case then.
bn880
OP3 years agoThis is what eBay support told me to do , to get the guys paypal and cover the return shipping.
pjcdn2005
·3 years agoAs @byto253 mentioned you can buy a usps label at Shippo or at Pitateship. Save it as a pdf and send it to your buyer.
bn880
OP3 years agoYou can not send PDF's in eBay AFAIK
reallynicestamps
·3 years agoYou can not send PDF's in eBay AFAIK
Of course you can.
It's just a picture for heaven's sake.
byto253
·3 years agoIt actually does not take the .pdf format. I have tried to send manuals for audio gear and it was a no go. I had to get an email address.
bn880
OP3 years agoYou can send a picture not a PDF.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·3 years agoYou can open the PDF on your computer and take a cropped screenshot. Google for instructions on how to do so with your operating system.
There is also Adobe's website: https://www.adobe.com/ca/acrobat/online/pdf-to-jpg.html (Although, I have never used it so I can't vouch for ease of use. It's Adobe though, so it's probably fine.)
On the topic of refunded labels, the only possible downside is that some services will only refund your label in the form of a credit toward future use of the service. This might be an issue if you don't regularly use Shippo. It has been a while since I have had to use Shippo, but if I recall this is the case with them. With that said, it wouldn't be difficult to use the credit the next time you have a sale and need to print a label since Shippo can print Canada Post labels.
Lastly, if you choose to use Chit Chats to ship to the USA, they have return labels built into their service that you can easily print. I would only advise using Chit Chats if it makes sense cost wise and time wise since some of their depots aren't located as conveniently as Canada Post.
Like most people, I agree that it is a hassle to provide a label for anybody who has never been through the process before. It feels very archaic to have to jump through so many analog hoops to get send a label on a marketplace that is supposed to be one of the most used and longest standing. eBay should realistically have some sort of system to automatically generate return labels using eBay's printed shipping. Especially since they have their own shipping facilities in the USA that are used for their current version of whatever took over from the Global Shipping Program. On a side note, eBay could probably make a pretty decent profit through charging some sort of insurance fee up front to cover the cost of a return label, and then dealing with it using their current USA international shipping process.
byto253
·3 years agoIf using ebay messaging, you need to convert the pdf to Jpeg, which Adobe does free online, as well as other sites. Then the Jpeg can be sent.
bn880
OP3 years agoI know I do that all the time.
byto253
·3 years agoA lot of folks here find that contacting ebay through social media is better than phone as they are ebay employees and not phone contractors.
No idea if the twitter one still works with the plug pulled recently.
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.
https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en
flipistics
·3 years agoYou should be able to issue a return label from the USA to Canada through either Pirate Ship or Shippo. If you know they're a scammer though, you might be better off just refunding, reporting them to both eBay and the USPS (depending on how you sent it), and blocking them. If they really are a scammer, they'll probably just send back junk and then you'll be out the shipping too.
It sucks, but it's part of business unfortunately. If eBay was going to have the resources to thoroughly investigate all the cases they get, we'd probably pay double the fees that we do now.