Puzzled by INR
Summary: fergua3 discusses a case opened by a buyer for an item sold and shipped earlier, expressing confusion because the balance remains zero and the hold on funds was released. ricarmic and others provide insights and reasoning on eBay's Money Back Guarantee (MBG) policies, discussing timelines for claims and potential implications for sellers. There is a debate on whether the buyer's lack of communication and request for a refund could indicate a scam. fergua3 decides to refund the buyer, who is also a seller, despite suspicions, noting that without proof of delivery, it seems necessary. Participants share varied experiences with tracking and customer service, reflecting on their strategies for handling similar cases.
A buyer just opened a case. A common story...item was sold Oct 3, shipped Oct 4. Haven't heard a peep from buyer until now, when they open an INR case. No request for replacement item, just wants money back. The usual.
I had zero in my MP account and in the past when that happens the account shows a negative balance for what i owe the buyer. But this time it is still showing a zero balance. And on the right hand margin under 'Recent Activity', it shows that the hold of $31.90 has been released, but no explanation as to why.
i am unable to find the range Ebay gives as to when the item should arrive and when the buyer has until to open an INR request under Ebays Money Back Guarantee. So i don't know if the buyer is within the time range or not. Emails i got from Ebay don't say anything about not having to refund becasue the Money Back Guarantee period has expired, so i assume the buyer opened the case in the nick of time.
Hence my confusion.
marnotom!
·2 years agoI agree that you made the right decision to refund even if there's no communication by December 4th. You mentioned that this buyer is also a seller, so they should have some idea how this process works and affects sellers. You might want to review their feedback received and feedback left for others to see if any sort of patterns emerge, though, and check if they've made any sales recently, while you're at it.
When I did most of my selling a decade or two ago, I found that UK and European buyers weren't wedded to their devices the way we North Americans seem to be. Your buyer may be caught up in stuff that's keeping them away from eBay and their email.
fergua3
OP2 years agoi checked the buyer's feedback on day 1 of receiving the INR. They've left none for the past year. Prior to that they were leaving feedback all the time. They currently do about 25 transactions per month, buying and selling yet have left no feedback in the last year. About a dozen or more sales per month.
For the feedback they have it's quite good. They left one negative over a year ago in a situation that sounds like it is much like the INR i am involved in. Otherwise, there feeback seems pretty good.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoA buyer can open an INR after the Money Back Guarantee expires.
You are not obligated to refund, but you still need to reach out to eBay to escalate the case and have it closed.
If you feel that the buyer isn't entitled to a refund, you have to contact customer service and explain that the MBG window is closed. You have to ask them to manually close the case.
If the item was shipped untracked, the MBG should be 30 days after the latest expected delivery date. If it was shipped tracked, it should be 30 days after when it was marked as delivered. Unless you used a ridiculous delivery estimate, the MBG should be expired by now.
marnotom!
·2 years agoOf course, this would apply to a SNAD claim. If the item is marked as delivered, the item should have reached the buyer and there'd be no reason for them to file for an INR. In theory, at least. 😄
fergua3
OP2 years agowell, despite not getting any answer to my messages i sent the buyer, and being 99% certain this is a scam from somebody who got their item and now wants it for free, i have decided to refund.
It was shipped untracked, so i have no proof it was delivered....and the deal is with online selling that if you can't prove delivery you refund. So, while i hate it, i am going to.
flipistics
·2 years agoIMO that's the right thing to do. Once enough time has passed that you can no longer refund through eBay, I wouldn't though. That would open you up to potentially refunding them through a third party, then have them open a chargeback or something.
fergua3
OP2 years agoyeah, i realize. Ebay's email told me to refund by Dec 5, so i am going to wait until Dec 4, just in case i hear back from the buyer and if not, refund on the 4th so i at least get my fees back.
reallynicestamps
·2 years agoDid you use tracking?
If you did, put the tracking/delivery number in the Claim.
If you did not, refund.
More important, your response to the Claim and winning the Claim, makes it more likelythat eBay will be on your side when the buyer opens the credit card chargeback.
marnotom!
·2 years agoThey’re just not going to be successful at getting eBay to facilitate the refund. It’s going to be all up to the seller.
fergua3
OP2 years agoyes i'm aware of that, i've had it happen in the past. But then, Ebay's email made it clear i didn't have to refund but suggested it was a good idea. This time, i am pretty sure i don't HAVE to refund because the buyer is outside the MBG window but Ebay's email doesn't say any of that, like it has in the past. I stated my reasons for thinking this in my previous post.
To me, the odds are very high that this buyer just wants some money for Christmas and did receive their item long ago. Or perhaps some buyer of theirs opened an INR and now they are opening one against me to recover their losses. Whatever the case, the buyer's behavour is highly suspect.
How long does a buyer have to open a SNAD?
marnotom!
·2 years agoSNADs are covered under the MBG as well, so they'd be covered for 30 days after the actual date of delivery (or I guess the estimated date if there's no tracking).
However, your message from eBay stating that it "was a good idea" to refund may be based on the buyer's payment method. Buyers have 180 days from the date of payment to file similar INR or SNAD cases through PayPal and it's believed that credit card issuers have similar timelines for chargebacks. Of course, the "good idea" is from eBay's perspective as they don't want to deal with these sort of cases or chargebacks.
fergua3
OP2 years agoyeah i know, that is of concern. I'm aware that if i don't refund i may just get a PP or credit card case opnned against me.
My current message from Ebay didn't say anything about being a 'good idea' to refund. That was a message i got some time ago when i had a similar INR opened. In that case i chose not to refund and never heard from the buyer again. Not sure if i will take the chance again. It's just so annoying to feel you're being cheated, regardless of the amount, especially now when sales are so few and far between. And i still haven't heard back from the buyer from the message i sent. The buyer has an average of 25 feedbacks per month both from buying and selling so they are fairly active on Ebay. They should have responded by now, if they were going to. Just stonewalling until the money rolls in, i guess...
marnotom!
·2 years agofergua3
OP2 years agowell the buyer doesn't know that Ebay has taken the hold off my funds. The buyer is probably expecting i'll cave or be forced to refund, or that Ebay will refund on my behalf and just waiting for that to happen.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoWas it tracked, untracked? What was the estimated delivery date?
It looks like you have a delivery window of 30 or so days on your items. For example, if a buyer purchases something from you today it says it might not arrive until January 2nd. That would give them until February to open a case for an untracked item (January 2nd+30 days).
It's possible if this was untracked, you had a very patient buyer who didn't want the hassle of opening a case until the last minute. While there are scammers, I don't think it's fair to always assume a buyer who opens an INR case isn't genuine. While rare, stuff does get delivered to the wrong house, mail gets lost, delayed, etc.
If it is tracked and you have tracking that shows a successful delivery, just provide that in the case.
regs43
·2 years agoI had a few INR this week
Case 1
Purchase made Sept 30th, last estimated arrival date Oct 26 so we are at day 34 Yesterday when the case opened (I gave the 5.00 back) I DID NOT recall seeing an option to decline to refund lol
This is what the email for that one said
"We want to let you know that your buyer opened a request because they haven’t received their item.
Here’s what you need to do
If you’ve already shipped the item to the buyer, just make sure you’ve uploaded tracking details that can confirm the item’s delivery to the buyer’s address.
If you can’t fulfill the order, please issue a refund to the buyer, and we’ll credit eligible fees to you as per our fee credit policy."
Case 2
Buyer threw out half his order, he did recieve the order. He took a week between each message (2 of them) so 2 weeks to reply and threatened a bad review in the middle of that. I gave him his $14.00 back and blocked him after he threatened bad feedback, also reported to ebay
The ebay INR case for him read like this
"
We want to let you know that your buyer opened a request because they haven’t received their item.
Here’s what you need to do
If you’ve already shipped the item to the buyer, just make sure you’ve uploaded tracking details that can confirm the item’s delivery to the buyer’s address.
If you can’t fulfill the order, please issue a refund to the buyer, and we’ll credit eligible fees to you as per our fee credit policy.
Please be sure to respond to your buyer’s request by Dec 1, 2023. After that date, if the request is still open we’ll help find a resolution. Keep in mind, if you don’t respond, there’s a chance it could affect your seller performance level."
Both emails read DIFFERENTLY as the Case 1 I susspect is outside of the MBG and Case 2 was inside the time frame
fergua3
OP2 years agoregs43: That's very interesting. The tone in the second email is clearly more ominous than the first. This suggests that, if outside the window, they won't do anything if you don't refund (which also explains why the hold on funds was released almost immediatlly), but no longer tell you that you don't have to refund, i guess to encourage sellers to fork over their own money so Ebay doesn't have to if the buyer makes waves.
I may well go ahead and refund, but not if the buyer doesn't respond to the message i sent. I politely asked if they opened the case by mistake, since the item was shipped nearly 2 months ago and i was surprised that i hadn't heard from them until now (i worded it better than that). I also asked them to confirm their shipping address.
No response from buyer means no refund from me, i think. Doesn't take much to communicate with the person you want money back from, especially when the buyer in this case, is also a seller.
pjcdn2005
·2 years agoIt is 30 day after the estimated delivery date and since October has 31 days that would make 30 days Nov. 23. You could deny the claim but as it is only a week past the time, I would probably refund. They may have just lost track of time.
rocketscollectibles
·2 years agoHaven't heard a peep from buyer until now, when they open an INR case. No request for replacement item, just wants money back.
So obvious when it's a false claim. Just had one too. Buyer just wrote 'i want my full refund'. So dirty. Early 2000 profil. And sellers are scared of new profiles.
pjcdn2005
·2 years agoNot everyone wants a replacement and not everyone is on the seller's case the minute something is late so those two things don't always indicate a scam.
fergua3
OP2 years agothe buyer is in the UK. I'm wondering if Ebay.uk is still under the old MBG rules of being able to apply for a refund within 60 days of purchase? I'm still puzzled by the fact that the hold on funds was released almost immediatly, that has never happened before.
I had a buyer open an INR a couple of years ago that was just outside the window for MBG. That email clearly stated that i was not obligated to refund but recommened that i do. The email i received today does not say that, it just tells me to refund by Dec 5.
ricarmic
·2 years agoKeep in mind Dec 5 = 12:03 AM PT December 5th......although since it is outside the window, the automagic refund/defect might not happen. The hold being released would lead me to believe it's up to you, however you also don't want to read the situation wrong and end up with a defect over it.
rocketscollectibles
·2 years agoNot everyone wants a replacement and not everyone is on the seller's case the minute something is late so those two things don't always indicate a scam.
Someone who have interest in an order will show interest in receiving their order. Someone who only have interest in the money back and shows literally none interest in what they supposely not receiving, is indeed a suspicious behavior. You're seeing the world pink. Maybe not always a scam, but high odds it is.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·2 years agoI disagree.
If an item hasn't arrived after 60 days, and the delivery window for a replacement is 30+ days, it isn't unreasonable for a buyer to ask for a refund and go somewhere else. Especially in this day and age when there are many services that guarantee 2 day shipping.
There are scammers, but not every INR is a scammer. In most cases, it's just bad luck. I say this because the rate of people who come back and ask to repay after an INR is very high, at least in my category of media. Perhaps it is different in trading cards, sports cards, or other categories that target different demographics.
ricarmic
·2 years agoI might be wrong and be corrected but my recollection is that MBG is 30 days after the last estimated arrival date, so if it says arrival is between Nov 20 and December 1, buyer has until Dec 31 to file the INR.
fergua3
OP2 years agothe note in Order Details says:
msau4301
·2 years agoI always thought the same as ricarmic, that it is 30 days from latest estimated delivery date so if yours was Oct. 10 - 24th, it would have been Nov. 24 and past.
Since the buyer is also seller you say they should know the rules also.
I think buyers can still Open a case but if it is past the 30 day window it is no longer guaranteed by eBay and may be now kind of the honour policy?? I haven't had it happen, I'm just guessing since I think I've read about buyers opening case past the deadline but it no longer being guaranteed refund.