The end of lettermail on eBay ?
Summary: chicweb expresses concerns about ongoing negotiations between CUPW and Canada Post, impacting shipping options on eBay, particularly lettermail. They have shifted to tracked shipping due to increased sales and worries about service delays. mrdutch1001 advises focusing on one's own business strategies instead of others. reallynicestamps warns about underpricing items and labor costs. ilikehockeyjerseys discusses the challenges during the strike, suggesting alternative platforms or models. recped downplays the strike's impact, citing past experiences. The consensus is eBay should update its tools and features to enable sellers to adapt more effectively to shipping challenges.
Things are at a standstill with the negociations between the CUPW and Canada Post. Even worse, the Minister doesn't seem to want to force them back.
When I first started months ago, I was only using shipping with tracking, since it was the way to do things correctly, here.
By seeing sales not going up that much, I decided to switch to lettermail to be more competitive. I then saw a drastic change in sales.
With the current situation, it's worse than ever. Even having switched back to tracked shipping, no sales.
All the sales goes to sellers still offering lettermail, even if they are in vacation or cannot provide timely shipping (Items sent through Canada Post won't be delivered before xmas, that's for sure, even if they would come back today). And the could be striking for months. I still cannot understand why some sellers still offer it...
Is it the end of lettermail shipping on eBay ? What do you think? Is it it time that eBay does something about it ? If so, eBay should provide us with the same promotion tools as the US (Buy X get 1 free, promo codes, etc), so we can work with this new price structure.
chicweb
OP1 year agoI guess I wasn't that far away from the truth?
Is that true that Trudeau said that if Canada Post and CUPW doesn't come to an agreement soon, it might be the end of Canada Post ?
Heard it in the news.
That's not looking good....
chicweb
OP1 year agoFrom the latest post by eBay. Seem related to this thread.
Protection for
- Late Shipment Rate (LSR) defects
- Valid tracking upload rate
- Negative or Neutral Feedback if you uploaded tracking before the case was opened and have a physical scan from the carrier
- Seller initiated cancellations
So, LSR. Is that INR ? If so, with tracking provided or all LSR ?
Negative or Neutral Feedback: If tracking uploaded. Doesn't apply to lettermail.
Seller Initiated cancellations: While I think this can still affect customer's experience, I can understand why (suggesting other shipping methods by message, as an example).
So I'm OK with that. They are flexible with LSR, but feedbacks without tracking would stay. Which seems fair for all.
recped
·1 year ago@chicweb
I don't understand you thoughts on lettermail....AT ALL!
Once the strike is over everything returns to normal, nothing will have changed. If your items qualify (weight / dimensions) why would anything be different that it was up until 10 days ago?
If you triple or quadruple your shipping charge it will obviously affect sales. You were charging $4.00 to ship a CD, now you are charging over $14, that is a 72% increase, what did you expect to happen?
chicweb
OP1 year agoAnd what is the solution then?????
Stop selling? No. I won't stop selling. So yes, I'm using UPS with calculated shipping. This is the only thing I can do. I won't mislead my customers making them think they will get it before xmas by using lettermail. That's bad business, and I care about my customers.
Even after lettermail comes back, it will take months before the backlog is processed. Everyone will go back bringing their packages at the same time.
Will eBay promote bad business behaviors by removing INR and bad feedbacks for months? Customers will lose trust in the platform and we will all be impacted.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agoWhy is it you think Customers don't understand the status of mail delivery right now? Why is it you think customers are going to lose trust in eBay, Etsy or any other platform because of the CP shut down? There are still customers in this world that do understand the situation. Not all customers live under a rock!
recped
·1 year agoThe backlog won't take more than a few days to be mostly cleared up. The only "backlog" would be for stuff stuck in the system when the strike began plus incoming International Mail. There may be a short period initially due to volume but it won't have too much effect.
In previous strikes where there was a full shutdown, timely deliveries resumed without issue in just a short period of time, during that time deliveries were delayed by a couple of days.
chicweb
OP1 year agoThat's whishful thinking.
I don't operate on "best case scenario" and no packages will be delivered before xmas. That was said many times, even in the news. They will not be able to ship in time. I still see estimates of december 5 using lettermail. Ridiculous.
As soon as lettermail is back, of course I will use it if ebay still allows it. I have personnally nothing against it. I have against misleading customers, tho.
eBay should at LEAST fix their estimates correctly, promote more about combined shipping... Shows who is in vacation in the searches, and basic changes like that.
That would help a lot businesses still operating and offering alternative shipping methods.
You said 14$ shipping. Sure. On a single item. With combined shipping, it's as cheap as lettermail.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agoIt is not up to eBay to make seller's decisions for them about their shipping methods...We do NOT need anymore eBay interference and/or dictating how a seller conducts every detail about their business!
Many of the estimated delivery dates are based on the seller's own choices of shipping method,handling time etc. Granted there are some sellers who may not have adjusted their shipping details but that is Their business not yours,not mine, NOT eBay's....
If you want things to work better for you, then you find the means to do so and without expecting eBay to coddle you and hold your hand every step of the way!
Perhaps it is time to take a step back, take a deep breath, enjoy some quiet time away and come back when you can put things into perspective.
At this point I am done with this topic as there no longer is any point to continue with any attermpt to discuss in a logical fashion.
chicweb
OP1 year agoWhat are you talking about?
We depend on their platform. That's features that need to be implemented. You understand that I cannot code them myself? I would, since I'm a developper. But I can't.
You don't seem to understand some things, here.
1. eBay provide the estimates. They calculate it. They need to fix it for reality. If not, they will lose customers... and YOU and me will also lose them. They will buy elsewhere because they would have been mislead.
2. Yes, sellers can take that decision to still show lettermail... but if eBay side with them by removing bad feedbacks or INR, then I have a problem with it. That's promoting bad sellers at the expense of the good ones.
3. Yes, I want eBay to promote good sellers more than bad sellers. That's right. Because that's for the good of the overall platform (and the good of my business on the long run).
4. What other sellers do affects you too. Not only they are competitors, but they also provides an overall image for the eBay platform. More bad sellers = less customers. It's easy to understand.
You are using their platform, you depend on them. Me too.
They NEED to update the features to be competitive and promote good sellers.
recped
·1 year agoIt's not wishful thinking, it's 50 years of mailorder and dealing with multiple Canada Post strikes.
Buried in your wall of text is a single mention of combined shipping and you give no details about how much the discount is. Not relevant anyway because I (with my buyer hat on) only wants ONE.
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoIf you sell a $1.00 CD with $25 shipping, you won't get many sales.
Partly because the total price is too high, but mostly because the breakdown sounds sketchy.
Most buyers have no idea of how much shipping costs, nor do they care.
You would, in my opinion (and I have been selling mail order since the mid 70s) offering that CD at $26 with Free Shipping.
Seriously, it works.
More useful would be to move all your listings to Unsold and relist them when the strike is over.
You don't have any problem with high price shipping, because you are not shipping,
You don't have to change any shipping costs, because you are not shipping.
You don't look sneaky by having shipping higher than the purchase price.*
You won't lose anything, since you are not getting the sales anyway.
You don't have to worry about late deliveries and negs from angry customers.
*Buyers hate paying any shipping, and really really hate paying shipping that is higher than the purchase price.
They will usually go for the $30 with Free Shipping over the $1 with $25 Shipping.
Seriously.
chicweb
OP1 year agoI don't think it looks sketchy at all. When I order on websites on the web (other than Amazon), shipping is always 10$+ with tracking.
Amazon and eBay are the exceptions. Most of the time (almost all the time), tracking are provided on online store websites. I would also always do it, but it's not competitive here.
This is why telling users about combined shipping is important. The UI is not user friendly about it.
About the Free Shipping. I cannot do that. Sending to Yukon would cost more than 100$. I cannot block provinces.
I cannot incorporate free shipping while using UPS or Fedex. Too risky. It's possible only with Canada Post because their prices doesn't vary that much from place to place.
I still have sales (minimal but some), and using business policies is fast to switch things. So I will go back to lettermail when possible. Otherwise, I must use shipping with tracking. Cheapest available to me here without 2 hours drive is UPS.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·1 year agoThe choice you have to make is whether it makes more sense to offer uninterrupted service at a higher shipping price, or whether it makes more sense to offer lettermail shipping prices that are attached to ridiculous 40-50 day shipping windows (20 day handling+18 business day generic economy shipping).
If you do the latter, you may have to devote additional time to customer service when people inevitably contact you to find out when their item will arrive, or to cancel.
I understand that there are a lot of sellers whose listings still show standard lettermail shipping times that they have no way of meeting and they message people after they buy them to let them know that their item will ship when the strike is over. Or, they simply take the sale and don't do any of that. I personally wouldn't do this, but it's their risk to take I suppose. I understand how if you're doing things by the book with extended handling times, or more expensive Chit Chats/Stallion/UPS/Fedex shipping, it might rub you the wrong way to lose sales to people operating in a way that might be viewed as bad faith.
Canada Post is going to be back after the strike. Lettermail will be available. With that said, I think that anybody who has built a business around lettermail should strongly consider looking into other platforms or business models that allow them to deliver value without needing to be able to ship a bubble mailer for $2-$4. I don't think Lettermail will go away anytime soon, but it is pretty clear that it is underpriced as it is now. We already have a massive raise in prices coming in the new year. It wouldn't surprise me if it eventually got to the point where Lettermail becomes expensive enough that the average eBay Lettermail seller isn't viable.
chicweb
OP1 year agoWhat is problematic, is that eBay said they will protect sellers during the strike. Which is good, don't get me wrong. Many of us have items stuck in the mail, right now. That's beyond our control.
But, will they also protect those who continued to use lettermail without tracking after the strike started?
You see what I mean? Will they remove bad feedbacks? What about late shipping claims?
This would be highly unfair... At a point where I would reconsider offering lettermail, because of no consequences at all if I offer bad service.
ilikehockeyjerseys
·1 year agoThey also instructed people to use extended handling times.
I highly doubt they are going to remove multiple defects, feedbacks, or extend windows for INR claims for sellers who did not give the buyers the courtesy of showing them proper handling times. I could be wrong.
At the end of the day, I agree with the other post. It's better just to focus on delivering value in the best way you can than to focus on perceived cheating by other sellers who advertise handling or delivery times that they will never meet due to the strike. If they have chosen the risk/reward of doing that is in their favour, and they don't have an issue ethically with promising something that they know they cannot deliver, that's on them. It's not my place to impose my ethics on them or say what I have chosen to do in response to the strike is the right or only way everybody should handle it.
I believe that eBay should incentivize sellers to use Fedex and UPS calculated rates because instructing people to stay open with extended handling times will hurt the marketability of the entire platform in the busiest month of the year since it could lead to consumers assuming that all eBay sellers aren't shipping until the end of the strike. With that said, I understand that eBay had no way to know that this strike could last weeks. I think if they knew that from the get go, their marketing strategy would have been different.
chicweb
OP1 year agoIf they don't remove INR or bad feedbacks for "after" the strike started... then it's all good for me. It's fair play. Sellers makes their decisions but also have the risks/consequences of that decision.
Sellers will get the feedbacks deserved. (I'm sure there will be a lot of complaining and lost of sellers tho... but that would be their decision).
I'm not overly focusing on it. Only in this thread, actually. I'm doing my things and will try some things to adapt.
I also beleive that eBay must provide us with more promo tools. That's the perfect occasion... and work on the search listings (specifically, sellers in vacation and combine shipping).
mrdutch1001
·1 year ago"Lettermail" is still offered by other couriers and therefore is still accessable to those sellers who choose to use other courier companies. For these other courier companies it is business as usual so any packages sent through these other courier companies will get to their destinations in a timely manner...or at least as long as these other courier companies have the manpower and vehicles to provide their services...
This is eBay.CA not eBay.COM so we work with whatever we are provided with on this site. It is up to the seller to provide whatever shipping method suits their needs. You need to work out your own strategies and spend less time worrying about what you cannot control...
chicweb
OP1 year agoWhat other carriers offers lettermail at the same price?
Cause, I don't see any prices change on my competitors... Still offering free shipping on a 4$ item.
So I'm very curious to know.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agoIt is best NOT to concern yourself with what others are doing and concentrate on what you are doing for your business and how you can make adjustments to your own business that will be economical and/or efficient and work for you...and remember the old saying about curiosity and the cat LOL!
chicweb
OP1 year agoWe are very limited with tools on ebay.ca.
As an example:
I wanted to offer free shipping on orders of more than 100$... Well, I can't.
I must use Calculated shipping because of how wide the range is in Canada for UPS and FedEx (Rural, Up north, etc). Just sending a package to Yukon would cost me 200$ right now.
I can't even chose to offer this free shipping on certain condition (specific carriers, province, etc). I would have to do it manually on each order on a case by case with refunds or cancel orders (which I don't want to do).
There's a lot of solution and possibilities... just not on ebay.ca
mrdutch1001
·1 year ago"would cost me" ...no it would cost the buyer
BTW "Free Shipping" is a gimmick and no seller has to think otherwise...
eBay is no different than Etsy or other online selling venues utilized by Canadian sellers...all are facing the need to adjust to the CP mail shutdown...
Accept,adapt,adjust, and carry on with what is available to you or take a holiday away from eBay as it seems that you are stressing out over things of which you have no control or unwilling to and/or choose not to accept, adapt or adjust to...
chicweb
OP1 year agoIf you offer free shipping, the customer does not pay shipping (unless hidden in the selling price).
It's up to the seller to absorb the cost of the shipping either my upping the selling price or taking it from profit.
And you understand that I don't want to offer free shipping over 100$ if the shipping would cost 200$. I'm not selling at a lost, here. And I won't offer free shipping over 500$ just to make sure. Nobody would use that promo.
So, how do I do if I want to offer free shipping only to the one using UPS carrier? Well, there's no way. So I can't offer that option at all. Not risking it.
mrdutch1001
·1 year agowell apparently you have not adapted a shipping model that will work for you and there are times when one must admit that there is an impass and another route must be taken...
reallynicestamps
·1 year agoI was sympathetic until you mentioned selling $4 items.
Your costs should include at least the minimum wage for your time, and preferably a living wage, which is generally considered to be double the minimum wage.
Here in BC the minimum wage is $17.40.
That's 29c a minute.
Your $4 gross on a sale is eaten up in less than 12 minutes. And every minute you spend describing, uploading, photgraphing, packaging and shipping after that is a loss.
chicweb
OP1 year agoDon't worry about my calculation 🙂
This is why handling fees are important.