Camaro going to Michigan

GM has announced that the production of the Camaro is being moved to Michigan (the newest right-to-work state).  This will have a serious affect on employment in Oshawa. 

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Camaro going to Michigan

Three months ago, Canadian unionized workers were negotiating a new deal with Ford, GM and Chrysler for their Canadian plants.


 


From news reports at the time (September 2012):


 


"All three automakers - with Chrysler the most publicly outspoken - have argued adamantly that Canadian labor costs are the highest in the world and must drop to match those of the UAW in the United States, or future production and investment in Canada will be jeopardized."


 


They were not bluffing. 😞

Message 2 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

Average wages by country:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage



U.S. is 1st at (gross) $54,000


Canada is 7th, at $42,000



Although average U.S. wages are more than $12,000 higher than they are in Canada, there are 18 or so other countries where wages are within $10,000 of Canada's.



So let's not buy quite so easily into what American corporate salary negotiators are whispering in our corporate media's ears. 





Message 3 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

In terms of hourly wage cost in manufacturing, Canada is marginally higher than the U.S. ~ however there are 14 or 15 countries that are higher than Canada, some of them by a huge margin.



I don't know what kind of a link this is so not going to make it live it goes:



ftp dot bls.gov/pub/suppl/ichcc.ichccaesuppt1_2.txt



Message 4 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

So let's not buy quite so easily into what American corporate salary negotiators are whispering in our corporate media's ears.


 


If the wages in U.S. auto plants were higher than those in Canada, the CAW would be screaming loud and long about "misinformation".  They are not.  Canadian unions need to realize that this is a new day - actually, it is a repeat of many previous days.  If they aren't competetive, they aren't going to be working.  It is as simple as that. 

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Camaro going to Michigan

It's obviously misinformation - numerous countries have higher wages than Canada. In the auto industry specifically, one must remember that the Canadian dollar is high at this point in time. If the corporations force Canadian workers to take wage cuts now, are they going to raise the wages again if the C$ goes down?



In regard to the union calling "foul", they did:



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/17/canadian-auto-workers-wages-caw_n_1430898.html



Consumer prices being 23% higher in Canada, our auto industry wages are effectively lower than in the U.S., from that point of view.



BTW, if anyone wants to know why our prices are higher, perhaps they should ask the U.S.-owned near-monopoly major retailers, such as Walmart, Future Shop, Home Depot, Staples, Sears, Winners, Best Buy, etc...



And if the auto manufacturers want to follow their logic to the inevitable conclusion, then they should immediately pack up every single plant in North America and move it to China, where the average auto worker gets $1.50 an hour.

Message 6 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

In terms of hourly wage cost in manufacturing, Canada is marginally higher than the U.S. ~


 


Marginally??  $6 per hour is not marginally--thats 20% higher than the US.


 


According to the union, the top hourly rate for production workers in CAW-represented assembly plants is $34 -- about $6 more than in unionized shops in the



and don't say cost of living is more in Canada-the manufacturuer does not care that you spend more they don't have to!

Message 7 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

If they aren't competitive


 


There has been a lot of union busting strategies in the US and Canada. To me this is just another. The US economy is in bad shape, Canada’s is not. So does this mean that ‘competitive’ is defined as …….Canadian workers have to lower their wages to suit other countries because the other countries messed up? Do the CEOs and upper management lower their incomes? If all cars were suddenly made in Mexico, would Canadian workers have to lower their wages to Mexican standards? (Free trade has become a curse)


 


On one side of the coin you have Canadian workers standing up for themselves and what they feel they deserve to be paid. On the other side of the coin you have a country with huge unemployment and people willing to work for less, so the big corporations take advantage of this. Where’s the judgement call come from……money or morals? Yeah I know, always money. The rich get richer and the others get thrown the occasional bone.    





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Message 8 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

And if the auto manufacturers want to follow their logic to the inevitable conclusion, then they should immediately pack up every single plant in North America and move it to China, where the average auto worker gets $1.50 an hour.


 


I am sure that they are thinking about it.  There was a time when cars for foreign markets were built in Canada.  Now, many are built in the country they will be sold in, especially if those are low income nations such as Mexico, India and China.

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Camaro going to Michigan

money or morals?


 


Money every time.  It is hard to pay the shareholders with morals.  They prefer cash.


 


In this case, GM didn't bother to ask the workers to lower their wages.  I would guess that if the unions offered to lower their wages, Gm would still be leaving. 

Message 10 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

Marginally??  $6 per hour is not marginally--thats 20% higher than the US.



In overall manufacturing, the rate in Canada is $34 vs $33 in the U.S on the other link I posted. Again, keeping in mind that our dollar has risen literally from 60 cents US to $1 over the past number of years.



Some other countries are in the $50s. So for them to say Canadian labour is the  "highest in the world" is just a diaper load.


Message 11 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

Big diaper!





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Message 12 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

In overall manufacturing, the rate in Canada is $34 vs $33 in the U.S on the other link I posted. Again, keeping in mind that our dollar has risen literally from 60 cents US to $1 over the past number of years.



Some other countries are in the $50s. So for them to say Canadian labour is the  "highest in the world" is just a diaper load.



in the REAL world we compare apples to aplles and oranges to oranges. so we compare CARS to CARS. I don't care what the "average amnufactureing " rate is. FACTS are automobile manufacturing is 20% cheaper in the US so those that manufacture CARS find it cheaper to do it in the states. If it's cheaper to make outhouses in Canada I am sure they will start making outhouses in Canada.



They have said Canadian AUTO labour is higher--which is a FACT !

Message 13 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

Some posters value their opinion much more than the facts.


 


Facts only confuse these naive people

Message 14 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

...and FACTS have to be taken in the correct context.


 


The workers at GM-Canada are not to blame nor are the workers at GM-USA.


 


When GM (or any other large multinational manufacturer) compares labour costs between two countries (Canada and the USA), they do NOT compare how much each worker is paid per hour.  That is only one aspect of their labor costs. The worker may be making $30 an hour while the cost per production/hour to the employer may be $70.


 


Many calculations are needed to compare both.


 


An employee typically gets paid 52 weeks x 40 hours a week x hourly rate.


 


The employer receives production for 48 weeks (4 weeks vacations) x 35 hours a week (paid breaks) minus paid sick days minus paid statutory holidays minus paid personal days x hourly rate.  To that rate, the employer needs to add payroll costs (Employment Insurance, CPP, pension plan, medical benefits, other benefits, etc).


 


So, when comparing labour costs, employers do not compare hourly wages paid to workers but their own costs for every hour of production per worker.  Two totally different things. 

Message 15 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

There has been a lot of union busting strategies in the US and Canada. To me this is just another. The US economy is in bad shape, Canada’s is not. So does this mean that ‘competitive’ is defined as …….Canadian workers have to lower their wages to suit other countries because the other countries messed up? Do the CEOs and upper management lower their incomes? If all cars were suddenly made in Mexico, would Canadian workers have to lower their wages to Mexican standards? (Free trade has become a curse)



YEP -they are transfering jobs from the CAW to the UAW


 


if that does not break the union nothing will--how dare they transfer from 1 UNION to another UNION!!!


 


a lot of thought went into your post didn't it?

Message 16 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

So, when comparing labour costs, employers do not compare hourly wages paid to workers but their own costs for every hour of production per worker.  Two totally different things.



That is all part of it and I would assume with WSIB rates ready to soar that it will also play a big part in it.


It happens in every business whether they are union or not.



do people actually think that even the guy running the local corner store that if that extra employee starts to cut into his profit that he is not going to cut hours ?


I know 1 person is going to say that he will not cut employees or hours that he will take less food on his plate as long as others can eat-BUT in reality no matter what the business or the owner it comes down to the bottom line!

Message 17 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

I know 1 person is going to say that he will not cut employees or hours that he will take less food on his plate as long as others can eat-BUT in reality no matter what the business or the owner it comes down to the bottom line!


 


You know a person? Good for you. I know one too who feels the same way….me. So that makes two. You’re darn lucky knowing two people who actually think more of others than …….money. Two people who are happy with what they have and would be still happy if it comes to less, but don’t want others to lose out because of them. What a wonderful Christmas spirit…..right Ebenezer? Some people just live Christmas for one day, when it should be 365. But there are also some people, who never live it.


 


“I wear the chain I forged in life....I made it link by link, and yard by yard; I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it.”
― Charles Dickens





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Message 18 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan


...and FACTS have to be taken in the correct context.


 


The workers at GM-Canada are not to blame nor are the workers at GM-USA.


 


When GM (or any other large multinational manufacturer) compares labour costs between two countries (Canada and the USA), they do NOT compare how much each worker is paid per hour.  That is only one aspect of their labor costs. The worker may be making $30 an hour while the cost per production/hour to the employer may be $70.


 


Many calculations are needed to compare both.


 


An employee typically gets paid 52 weeks x 40 hours a week x hourly rate.


 


The employer receives production for 48 weeks (4 weeks vacations) x 35 hours a week (paid breaks) minus paid sick days minus paid statutory holidays minus paid personal days x hourly rate.  To that rate, the employer needs to add payroll costs (Employment Insurance, CPP, pension plan, medical benefits, other benefits, etc).


 


So, when comparing labour costs, employers do not compare hourly wages paid to workers but their own costs for every hour of production per worker.  Two totally different things. 





TThank you Pierre for putting this in a clear and easily understood context.

Message 19 of 24
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Camaro going to Michigan

YEP -they are transfering jobs from the CAW to the UAW


 


if that does not break the union nothing will--how dare they transfer from 1 UNION to another UNION!!!


 


a lot of thought went into your post didn't it?




Now that is union solidarity Brother.


Pit one union member against another.

Message 20 of 24
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