How about going against the flow?

[dark_phoenix9273]

I just read a thread that outraged me,  the thread suggested that instead of bringing up issues with recent eBay decisions, we should all sit back and just accept it and move on.   

This offends me intellectually and morally.  If people believe change is needed or that a decisions is unfair, then absolutely they should speak out and make their voices heard.  That is the only way change ever comes about or problems ever solved.

Sticking you head in the sand or simply being a good little follower is weak willed and cowardly.  Our opinions matter and we have every right to voice them without being told by the 'cheerleading' crowd that we should stay silent.  

So please ignore that other thread and make your voices and concerns heard.

[dmil8030]

Hello 'dark_phoenix', 

<< If people believe change is needed or that a decisions is unfair, then absolutely they should speak out and make

their voices heard.  That is the only way change ever comes about or problems ever solved. >>

👍Yeah!  Right on!  Whoo-hoo! 👏   People need to speak up freely, with dignity and respect, insight and intelligence, 

and make themselves heard.  You bet!  

So how 'bout it?  What's on your mind?  How about outlining those areas where you believe there needs to be a bit of 

renewal and then plainly and concisely present a detailed proposal explaining why your suggestion would work in 

each situation, thoroughly describing how your specific recommendations would be an improvement.

No good just complaining that something is unfair.  That is just a lot of weak-willed cowardly whining and entirely ineffectual.  

Be precise whilst unequivocally delineating your ideas, get clear and set down your submissions point-by-point and

offer up something tangible that others can rally behind. 

You'll find most folks here can appreciate a well-thought-out presentation if it is made available to them. 

[dutchman48]

Reread your last line.

That is what Ebay has never done!

[dmil8030]

<< Reread your last line.   That is what Ebay has never done! >>

Sarcasm? 

[dark_phoenix9273]

If you check out my other posts and threads you will see exactly what my issues are with the current business model Ebay utilizes, mainly concerning how sellers are left unprotected and how that results in inflated shipping costs for buyers.

But my main point is if people have issues then they have a right to be heard and not told to simply "go with the flow" as if they are sheep who should sit down and agree with everything that comes in front of them.  Their opinion is just as valid as yours and deserves to be heard.

[dmil8030]

<< . . . my issues are with the current business model . . . how sellers are left unprotected>>

I have seen your other posts.  Over 50 posts, nearly all of which contain the single gripe that "sellers are not protected" 

but not one word hinting at a workable proposal for change.  

<< if people have issues then they have a right to be heard and not told to simply "go with the flow" >>

Absolutely.  These discussion boards are bursting with a multiplicity of views and opinions and I do not believe anyone

has been told to "go with the flow".  Of course there is no reason why anyone who feels this is what he himself ought to do

should not be able to express this as well.  

Indeed all reasonable and respectful opinions deserve to be heard, and to be sure, the more diverse they are the more 

interesting the reading.  To declare that people have a right to express their opinion is hardly an announcement 

since that what the boards are, -- opinion after opinion.  

If, however, you persist in posting little more than a disgruntled whimper about what you perceive as unfairness, 

you are welcome to do so but don't expect others to pick up your banner and run with it for you.

[jersey..authentix]

This offends me intellectually and morally.  If people believe change is needed or that a decisions is unfair, then absolutely they should speak out and make their voices heard.  That is the only way change ever comes about or problems ever solved.

And hows  that worked out for you so far?

This forum ( which can hardly be call that ) is nothing more than a place we can all come to vent and occasionally get tips or answers to questions about the use of Ebay.

Change ? Sorry not here folks

When was the last time you changed the minds of the decision makers representing Ebay. Just because someone like Raphael posts a " I WANT TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS " thread , do you honestly think Ebay will reverse a decision based on you speaking out? It might make to feel better to rant but that all you're going to get

" the thread suggested that instead of bringing up issues with recent eBay decisions, we should all sit back and just accept it and move on."   

I dont think we should just accept anything we feel wrong about , but with Ebay moving on is all you can do.

[dark_phoenix9273]

Actually I have, Sellers should get paid before shipping in order to insure they get their money.  Buyers would still be protected through eBay and Paypal protection and are in no risk of losing money.  This would at least give Sellers the option of offering lower shipping rates.  

Or at the very least Sellers should get the same full and automatic protection that buyers enjoy.

And they only way change has ever happened is when people stand up and make their voices heard.  It's people who a ether fearful of change or don't want it to happen that try and talk people down from standing up.

[pjcdn2005]

Actually I have, Sellers should get paid before shipping in order to insure they get their money

It has been explained to you that sellers to get their money before shipping once they meet the new seller requirements.

Buyers would still be protected through eBay and Paypal protection and are in no risk of losing money.  This would at least give Sellers the option of offering lower shipping rates.  

Perhaps you should read the eBay MBG. Buyers are protected regardless if you have your money or not. It is not Paypal or eBay who pays when an item is not received or when it is not as described. If the item does not reach the buyer or if it is not in the advertised condition, it is the seller's responsibility to make it right regardless of where their money is.

Having your money first has absolutely nothing to do with offering shipping without delivery confirmation or seller protection. If you send an item letter mail and the buyer says that they did not receive it OR if you send it with delivery confirmation which shows the buyer didn't receive it, you have to refund the buyer. Would you not expect to be refunded too if you paid for something and didn't receive it???   It's totally up to you what service you want to offer for shipping. Many sellers do send without delivery confirmation and accept the risk for when they do have the odd problem.

Seller protection does not and will never mean that if a buyer doesn't receive an item the seller isn't responsible for it

The system isn't perfect but before you start ranting about this and that you need to understand how ebay works so perhaps you should spend some time reading the seller and buyer information pages.

[pjcdn2005]

Or at the very least Sellers should get the same full and automatic protection that buyers enjoy.

What do you mean by that?  A buyer pays money to purchase your item. If they don't receive it or if it is not as described how should you be protected?

[jersey..authentix]

"And they only way change has ever happened is when people stand up and make their voices heard.  It's people who a ether fearful of change or don't want it to happen that try and talk people down from standing up."

Given we live in a democratic society I completely agree with you, but  Ebay is far from being a democracy. Ebay is a company that obeys to no one but itself. Democracy is not how I would define Ebay or that matter most companies.

"Sellers should get paid before shipping in order to insure they get their money.  Buyers would still be protected through eBay and Paypal protection and are in no risk of losing money."

Am I missing something? We do.

[pierrelebel]

"Am I missing something? We do."

About four or five years ago eBay made a major policy change requiring new sellers to wait 21 days before receiving their payment from PayPal.  The policy is often referred to as the "21 day PayPal hold".

It was instituted to protect buyers.  There were some crooks using eBay to sell their "stuff", collect the money and take off or mail a rock in the mail.  The easiest prevention was to hold payment for 21 days.

This was a major change applauded by most eBay sellers (except new ones of course).  Some changes are good.  That was one of them.

Details of the current policy as it applies on eBay.ca:  http://pages.ebay.ca/help/pay/payment_hold.html

The policy is slightly different on eBay.com for shipments made from the USA.

[cumos55]

eBay provides a template for sellers.

eBay has its rules ... from the beginner seller to the established long-time sellers.

Each of us understands the difficulties, the problems one can encounter.

And... then ...  the most important part of selling on eBay is knowing what to do to be successful.

My personal view... Success depends upon knowing what NOT. to do.... It is these NOTs that will get a seller into trouble.

This is my year number 14 on eBay....  I have been through a lot

It was easier 14 years ago... but then eBay  had to take control... and set the rules..... year after year

I used to get recommendations.... about selling... from eBay.....  They were ignored  because to me ... for the most part... they were not critical to my selling on eBay... eBay stopped providing recommendations

I have a routine  that I follow with each sale....  and selling on eBay works for me..... because history tells me  that what I do works....

A seller on eBay must create a personal "flow" ..... a personal way of selling  that works  for the inventory they sell

[dark_phoenix9273]

Thats your opinion,  why is a buyers protection so important that it tramples over a sellers?  And no I am sure there are plenty of sellers who are not happy that they are left at risk while buyers get to feel completely secure.

And even if there is the rare crooked seller, buyers are already fully protected to get their money back if they file a complaint.

[pjcdn2005]

ONCE AGAIN

A seller having to wait for their money does not affect your seller buyer protection. If you don't understand that, please read my posts earlier in this thread. 

[jersey..authentix]

OK. Well I think we all know where this going. You know the story about , leading the camel to drink?

[cumos55]

I thought it was a ?horse?  being led to water....

Going against the flow on eBay ... that is eBay's flow.... is like running into a brick wall.

and the next words will be ... Good-bye

-------------------------------

Going against the flow on the Red River at the wrong time of the year  could mean.... Hello Hudson Bay!

[dark_phoenix9273]

Yes it does, because if the buyer chooses to scam you then you are left without the money and the item, it's really easy for them to do.

And a seller getting paid before shipping doesn't hinder a buyers protection either,  they are still covered by both Ebay and paypal.

[pierrelebel]

"And a seller getting paid before shipping doesn't hinder a buyers protection either,"

If that belief is important to you, then find a method of payment that will allow you - as a new Canadian seller - access to the money before shipping.  PayPal obviously will not.

Once you have found it come back to this thread and let other sellers know.  Thousands of them would like to have access to the money as soon as a buyer pays.

Good Luck.

[dark_phoenix9273]

My entire point is that is how it should be and we should push for it to be that way, I notice your didn't provide a single counter argument to my point, you just did what you always do, give some worthless non-answer that we should just accept everything the way it is and never question it.  Enjoy being a mindless follower.