How about going against the flow?

[dark_phoenix9273]

I just read a thread that outraged me,  the thread suggested that instead of bringing up issues with recent eBay decisions, we should all sit back and just accept it and move on.   

This offends me intellectually and morally.  If people believe change is needed or that a decisions is unfair, then absolutely they should speak out and make their voices heard.  That is the only way change ever comes about or problems ever solved.

Sticking you head in the sand or simply being a good little follower is weak willed and cowardly.  Our opinions matter and we have every right to voice them without being told by the 'cheerleading' crowd that we should stay silent.  

So please ignore that other thread and make your voices and concerns heard.

[pierrelebel]

"And still people dodge the main issue.  And don't answer the question."

Because your question is invalid.  It implies facts not in evidence.

Example of another invalid question:  "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Nobody in his right mind can answer it because of the implication the question reflects a factual situation that does not exist.

Same with your question.  You may feel mistrusted.  That is your right to feel that way.  However, your feelings are your own and do not reflect all other Canadian sellers.

You obviously do not like the terms of use of the site.  You keep repeating the same complaint over and over.  Move on.

Good Luck elsewhere.

[dark_phoenix9273]

No the question is perfectly valid, you simply don;t have an answer for it so you continue to dodge it.

Its a perfectly valid thing to ask.

There are just as many bad buyers out there as their are sellers, so why is it wrong to ask the following?

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?   If a seller were to be paid right away instead of after the buyer receives how exactly does that hurt the buyer, given they are already protected? 

[dark_phoenix9273]

Actually they are,  limits are placed on them because as many people on here have stated, they have yet to prove they can be trusted.  Hence they are not trusted.

And you still blather on trying to avoid the question because you know you have a no response for it.

There are just as many bad buyers out there as their are sellers, so why is it wrong to ask the following?

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?   If a seller were to be paid right away instead of after the buyer receives how exactly does that hurt the buyer, given they are already protected

[pierrelebel]

"Why are sellers automatically distrusted ""

One more and last time : sellers are NOT distrusted.  You feel that way.  That is your problem, your state of mind, your paranoia, not eBay's nor the vast majority of eBay sellers.

You do not like the rules.... you know what to do.

To be fair, I did not ask the questions: why do you feel distrusted?  Is there a valid reason for eBay to distrust you?  Why do you feel that way?

[cumos55]

The 21 day hold has been discussed many times on eBay.com.

Many sellers are unhappy with the basics, mainly because  their view  was that Paypal-eBay were preventing them from having the money.,,, their money

There was even a seller that viewed the hold as the buyer pays.... and the seller did not get paid  for the purchase until after 21 days have passed.... Seller had a 30 day handling time.

This seller shipped the purchase after 21 days,  because seller's view  was that was when the seller was paid.

One gets the impression  that OP has this same view....     how he describes the 21 day hold

The money was not his  until after 21 days.... So   why should the buyer.... not ....also get the purchase after 21 days...

A 21 day wait means a lot of unhappy buyers...and lots of negative feedback

[pierrelebel]

We have to turn back the clock a bit.

About six or seven years ago, many folks were not buying from sellers listing their products on eBay because they "heard" of many different types of scams where new sellers would come here, sell their products, pocket the money, and scam the buyers.

That was a valid concern and many sellers were happy when eBay/PayPal came in with a program giving buyers added confidence: "Do not worry, the sellers will not get your money until you have received your item and are satisfied with it".

That made a lot of sense and was very much in line with what eBay's major competitor was doing.

The new policy allowed American sellers shipping from within the USA the ability to get paid within days (not wait 21 days) with evidence of satisfactory receipt by the buyer.  That was NOT extended to eBay.ca where the 21 day hold stands.

And yes the program basically protects eBay and PayPal.  And life does go on.

[cumos55]

Once upon a time ago sellers could leave negative feedback for buyers....

Then came the sellers that used negative feedback as if they were striking buyers with a baseball bat... and buyers were leaving  because of this activity.

Some of us will remember  Seller Central discussion board on eBay.com  where buyers were the target..... and it sounded like a combination of Dodge City, High Noon and OK Corral.... Buyers were suffering.

Today  a buyer is not measured through negative feedback... but some sellers do sneak a negative content in a positive feedback... a definite NO-NO on eBay.

Buyers  are rated indirectly.... anonymously...  something that sellers will not see as a buyer's record on eBay

(1) Unpaid Item disputes (UID)... such that buyers with a high numbered UID  can be blocked from buying 

(2) Sellers  have the option of ... Report a Buyer....  but then how many times must a buyer be reported  before they are no longer allowed to buy on eBay

(3) Buyer's feedback for sellers.  ---- Sellers cannot leave negative feedback... But...  A buyer can be characterized on the basis of feedback left for a seller.

Many times I will get a good view of buyer's character,  and a view of a buyer's transactions based on the content of feedback left  by a buyer for a seller.

People  that sell using an auction format can cancel a bid and block a bidder  that leaves negative feedback  or verbally abuses a seller with a neutral  or even positive feedback.

and... if I remember correctly there are sites on the internet where problem buyers are highlighted.....

[cumos55]

I will also evaluate potential based on the 

(1) Questions they ask

(2)  Even though I do not list a Best Offer option, I will consider offers.....

It is the combination of words used by a potential buyer  that  provides a view of the person's character.

How do they react to my answers...  and on .. and on.

On the internet we  do not "see" someone, as in a personal contact... We must read through the words they write.

[pocomocomputing]

---

@dark_phoenix9273 wrote:

I just read a thread that outraged me,  the thread suggested that instead of bringing up issues with recent eBay decisions, we should all sit back and just accept it and move on.   

This offends me intellectually and morally.  If people believe change is needed or that a decisions is unfair, then absolutely they should speak out and make their voices heard.  That is the only way change ever comes about or problems ever solved.

Sticking you head in the sand or simply being a good little follower is weak willed and cowardly.  Our opinions matter and we have every right to voice them without being told by the 'cheerleading' crowd that we should stay silent.  

So please ignore that other thread and make your voices and concerns heard.

---

My only comment on this topic is a big sleepy yawn and strong wish to be able to block some members posts and endless topics in these forums so I do not have to see them go on and on and on.

[dark_phoenix9273]

And still no one can answer me.   You all try to dodge the question and avoid it. 

The fact that sellers have a hold placed upon them when they are new, prove they are not trusted.  If they were trusted then the hold would not be needed.   That is fact, not opinion.

And while there are just as many dishonest buyers, they are not given any probation period when joining the way sellers are, hance, again fact, they are completely trusted. 

So my question still remains. 

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?   If a seller were to be paid right away instead of after the buyer receives how exactly does that hurt the buyer, given they are already protected?

Ether answer it, or admit that there isn't one you can give.

And no, I'm not going to simply leave because I disagree with an ebay policy, I have as much right to question it as you have to post.  If you don't like it then stay out of the thread.

[sylviebee]

---

@dark_phoenix9273 wrote:

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?  

---

Because sellers will continue listing in spite of the fact that money is held in escrow for 30 days, but buyers will stop buying if eBay throws curve balls their way.

[dark_phoenix9273]

Thats not true, I have seen sellers on here that are fed up with the one sided protection ebay offers and buyers will always be around because ebay affords them ways to get the items they want that they normally would not be able to find in their areas.

[sylviebee]

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@dark_phoenix9273 wrote:

I have seen sellers on here that are fed up with the one sided protection ebay offers and buyers will always be around because ebay affords them ways to get the items they want that they normally would not be able to find in their areas.

---

That's exactly what I just posted.    

Sellers stay in spite of the 30 hold on their money.  If they were leaving you wouldn't see them.

Buyers stay because eBay protects them.

[cumos55]

Sellers stay on eBay because .....

They have the right inventory

They know how to sell that inventory.

and, above all

They know how to make buyers happy with their purchase

and then...

If there is a problem  .... they know how to deal with the problem quickly and easily....

Each seller creates their own "flow".... their own way of selling on eBay

[cumos55]

Sellers who stay know how to protect themselves.... 

and how to deal with the reality of selling on the internet....  and that means eBay...

If someone cannot meet the requirements of eBay's  template .... and cannot adjust to the realities of eBay... then eBay is not for them.

[amya4295]

Ebay is not unlike any other business. They set rules and you either play by them or you look elsewhere. Why do you need an answer other than that? It is your choice whether to sell here or not. Saying that we are all "sheeple" for simply "going along" with this is marginalizing how much time and effort many put in to have our voices heard. Many of the responses to your post come from very successful sellers and buyers on Ebay and they are most often the place I turn when I have questions and they are not always "pro" Ebay, and many times engage in discussions where they do not support changes or updates that Ebay puts forth.

No matter where you look, there will always be preference given to someone or thing. An insurance company gives better rates to a 35 year old woman than an 18 male. Why, because usually the woman have a proven track record and history and the new male driver does not and history shows that age group is riskier.  Is it fair to all 18 year old males, no, but that's how it works. When I got my first bank account as a teenager I had to to follow rules. My money was held until it cleared, I was not immediately offered overdraft or a credit card or any other features because I had not proven myself and therefore was riskier.

Like every other business, Ebay has requirements too.

In the past ebay has had issues with sellers taking peoples money and never sending the items or sending items that were not even close to what was listed, so they implement a system to try and alleviate that issue and minimize the risk, not unlike the situations above. A buyer actually proves themselves by paying promptly for an item. Just as they do when they walk into a store and pay for an item, there is no further requirement. Payment is proof. Buyers really can't do much more than that. If you are confident in they items that you list, you list them accurately and honestly and ship by the means and times that you state, block bidders with unpaid item strikes and low feedback, you will have very little issues.

Will Ebay always get it right when a customer puts in a claim? Probably not, and as others have said that is why you need to set a little aside for when and if a situation arises. The 21 day hold is temporary until you prove yourself as a seller. I actually don't find this that unreasonable or unusual

There are lots of things on Ebay that I can't fully get behind, but I have a choice to be here or not, and when weighing out those choices year after year I'm still here. Like any other business, they can do what they want, must answer to shareholders, and we have the freedom to give them our business or not. 

[kh-leslie]

Hello, everyone. This thread is getting a little off-topic and hostile. Please refrain from hostility and interpersonal disputes or we will have to lock the topic. Thanks!

[dark_phoenix9273]

Your example is flawed, 

You can't compare it to an in store situation because in that instance a buyer is committed to the transaction once they pay. They cant come back and make a false claim and cheat the store out of money the way they can on ebay.

And make no mistake, there are plenty of buyers out there that do exactly that.   But they are trusted automatically and completely protected.  Where as sellers are required to prove themselves and given less protection.

Ebay needs both sellers and buyers to work.  And I assure you plenty of sellers have rightfully left ebay because they can't sell their items without worrying they'll be cheated.   And if you think buyers should never have to worry about that then how is it fair for sellers to?

[yourtixfix]

Let me step in here for a moment because I can understand both sides. I at one point felt just as frustrated as you do with eBay holding funds until you are proven. It is a frustrating period especially if your just starting out and need the influx of sales $ to buy supplies or products to generate more sales.

Asking who is more important the buyer or seller is kind of like asking what came first the chicken or the egg. Its a no win argument.

In my opinion and remember its just my opinion both are equally as important. that being said the buyer would be my main focus if I was eBay. Why? Well anyone can sell products.... but not anyone will buy. If you loose a buyer from eBay they are gone forever. If you loose a seller from eBay someone else will fill the gap. Its sad but true.

Scamming on eBay as a buyer is rare in the fact that you can only do it  so many times before they catch on. After that they will not support you buying and claiming issue with your purchase. As a seller if they did not hold the funds and make certain you selling practices are good a seller could sell quick, grab the money, and run. This would leave the buyer and eBay at a loss. Why would eBay want to hold the empty basket in the end?

eBay is in the business for profit not to help people start and learn how to do business.

Again I agree, if I was siting in your shoes or any sellers shoes that has money being held until they prove themselves I too would feel behind the 8 ball but as with anything.... That is life.

Hope that sheds a little more light on the situation.

[dark_phoenix9273]

Im not saying sellers are more important then buyers,  I think they are equally valuable.  Thats why I feel that they should be equally protected.  Especially since there is as many bad buyers as there are sellers.

If sellers got paid right away (not delayed) and given proper protections against being scammed, it does not mean that all of a sudden they are just going to start scamming buyers left and right.  

All I see is posts saying sellers have to factor in losses and be ready to accept some scamming,  But if thats true then the same should be true for buyers.  

As a seller I have to jack up my shipping costs just to protect myself, because no I am not ready to lose my items without getting paid and theres no reason why i should and the fact that I'm not willing to, doesn't mean I should leave the site.  I can stay right here and fight for equal rights between sellers and buyers if I want.