Insurance Fraud OMG

[i*m-still-here]

I bought an item for $600 and it didn't arrive.  It was shipped with tracking of sorts and showed as being lost at the border.

Very Odd.

The seller made me wait 45 days for a refund but about a weak ago she refunded and I completed the insurance form.

She must have received her refund a few days ago.

I just saw that the item is listed again under a different seller's name.

This 100% guaranteed the same item.

No doubt.

Man............ what a scam.

I called shipsurance but it's Saturday and still early in California.

I wonder if they can recover their money?

[i*m-still-here]

I've been in touch with the seller, and it turns out it was re-sold at a Postal Auction.

How can a tracked item get to a postal auction that fast?

[marnotom!]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

I've been in touch with the seller, and it turns out it was re-sold at a Postal Auction.

How can a tracked item get to a postal auction that fast?

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Give the 800 number on this page a call for more info:

http://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGundeliv-e.asp

[i*m-still-here]

Not quite sure if that's a joke......???? ............... or if you really believe I need that information??? and/or can't access it for some reason.

It is a joke:  right?  

[i*m-still-here]

Doesn't ' matter............. I don't understand .............. but thanks for the chuckle.  

[marybrooks]

"I don't understand"

I think I do.  The story does not add up.  The link from Canada Post states : Undeliverable items that originate in the United States or other countries will be returned to the Undeliverable Mail Office of the country of origin.

I guess that is the meaning of the message with the link.

[i*m-still-here]

No......... I meant I don't understand your post with the link to the PO.

I've been in contact with them for almost 2 months so the link seemed like a joke.

I've been telling you what happened the package as I get more information and unraveling it as it's starting to come together.

I spent an hour on the phone with the Obudsman today.  I'm sure we know more than you do........ :).

[i*m-still-here]

Marnotom: ....... I have a passionate dislike for links.  Hate them.

I wish you would have said that.......... But you're right.  My apologies for that.   

That just complicates things more.  That must why the Ombudsman thought I meant it was in a US auction.  Of course he didn't tell me that undeliverable items are returned to the country of origin.

I'm just completely frustrated with the whole process.

I'm tired of having to explain how it's the same item because It always takes time to get into it.  I know it and both sellers know it.

The Ombudsman today told me to call the police.......... What???

Then they told me that the seller has to trace it.  Again:  What?  We did weeks ago.

Then right afterr that told me that I have to be the one to file a case.

No one wants anything to do with it.............. And in the meantime if the seller hadn't taken the item to buy TIP she'd be out $600.

I know mistakes happen, but for a $600 traceable item to disappear into thin air and then show up 52 days later in an eBay auction is just too weird.

[marnotom!]

You asked how a tracked item could get to a postal auction so quickly, and I provided a link to a page that has an 800 number on it to call for information on undeliverable mail.  As Marybrooks pointed out, there's also some information on this page that suggests that undeliverable mail from the United States is generally returned rather than auctioned off.

I'm no mind reader.  You've said nothing in this thread about dealing with Canada Post for two months on this issue and you've only brought up the Ombudsman now.

That 800 number on the page may be different than the contact information you've been using.  Again, I'm no mind reader and I have no idea to whom you've been in contact.

Hope you enjoyed biting my hand.

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Addenum:  We cross-posted and I just saw your follow-up post.  Not sure why you dislike links so much, but I guess we all have our idiosyncrasies.  Thanks for the additional information on your dealings with the Ombudsman.  Hope you can get this sorted out to your satisfaction.

[i*m-still-here]

marnotom ........ Again :  I apologize.  That is indeed news to me.

I first posted about this on the seller's board about a month ago.  Both the seller and I tried everything we knew to find the package and just two days after she received her check from shipsurance it showed up on eBay.

My gut reaction was that she was posting it under another id.

Then I looked closer and saw that it was a Canadian seller.

Thank Goodness she had TPI.

[marnotom!]

Apology accepted, I*m-s-h. 

I know you know all this already, but there seems to be a lot that's weird with this shipment.  The fact that it went through St. Laurent/Montreal is definitely a sign that something went amiss.  My wife just got a First Class shipment from Florida and it went through Richmond/Vancouver.

I still suspect that the package was addressed in such a way so as not to reach you, either accidentally or deliberately.

And the fact that there are suggestions that usual procedures weren't followed for an "undeliverable" letter mail shipment from the United States raises a red flag for me.

Like I suggested, you've probably assembled a similar checklist of weirdness.  Is it possible to get in touch with the Ombudsman again?

[i*m-still-here]

But it was scanned into the building.............. so they had the bar code in place at that point.

With the bar code there should not have been a problem.

I brought up the fact that it was in Montreal during my first phone call and was assured that this was 100% normal and of no concern.

My seller thinks it might have been removed from the package by customs and separated from the packaging at that point........... but that doesn't make sense to me either unless they just decided it was easier to "lose' it than explain why they had  a package with no item.

My seller assures me that it was neatly and securely addressed.

She sells on eBay, several other sites, and has her own website as well.

Talking to her it's clear that she knows her stuff inside out.

She wasn't at fault.   I'm sure of that.

[marnotom!]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

But it was scanned into the building.............. so they had the bar code in place at that point.

With the bar code there should not have been a problem.

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I'm not following you here.  How would the barcode have prevented a problem?  What sort of problem?

Isn't the bar code for the post office's use, anyway?  Canada Border Services may not have the ability to scan postal barcodes and transmit the information to Canada Post.  It may actually be the post office that scans the item prior to it entering customs.  Perhaps you know more about this procedure than I do, though, given the conversations you've had with Canada Post employees.

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

I brought up the fact that it was in Montreal during my first phone call and was assured that this was 100% normal and of no concern.

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I agree it's probably normal, but from what you're saying (I still don't know where the seller is based), it sounds like the package went to Montreal rather than by a more direct route to you.

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

My seller assures me that it was neatly and securely addressed.

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But did she assure you that it was correctly addressed?  (I don't know how an item can be "securely" addressed anyway.)

[afantiques]

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But did she assure you that it was correctly addressed?  (I don't know how an item can be "securely" addressed anyway

I'd say 'securely addressed' means the label was clear-taped on and possibly over to prevent it being detached or water damaged..

[i*m-still-here]

At the Montreal port of entry (and likely all of them) the PO and customs are in the same building.

Items get scanned in by the PO, and then forwarded to customs.  I don't know if all items get forwarded to customs or only some of them.

This item was scanned in by the CPO side of the building and that was the last scan.

I was told that it should also have been scanned by customs at some point, but it wasn't.

Even if the item had been incorrectly addressed to me the seller had her return address on the package and it should have been returned to her.

Even if both addresses were somehow trashed, then the barcode was there and it should have been traceable.

If all that failed, it should have been returned to the States and not auctioned off in Canada.

The only thing that makes sense is that customs removed the item from the package and somehow the two were never matched up again.

Rather than deal with that perhaps they destroyed the packaging and put the item up for auction.

What a long shot that it ended up back on eBay within weeks and that I found it the same day.

[i*m-still-here]

Also interesting (to me at least) was the way everyone suspected someone else of wrongdoing.

We were all suspicious of each other every step of the way.

The seller, the Post Office, Customs, the insurance company, and I.

We all thought someone else was pulling a fast one.

Such is human nature!

I might still get more information, but at this point it looks like a sloppy employee was likely responsible for the loss.

[dipmicro]

How this item became subject to postal auction? Should not it be returned to sender first?

At this value there must have been customs paperwork documenting both addresses - sender's and receiver's.

I can see you are really upset about loosing this item, spending so much time on hunting it, so if you have an attorney friend, ask him to make couple phone calls. If you don't have a friend, talk to several attorneys and ask them if there is space for settlement and if they would be willing to work on contingency, I am quite positive a lawyer can turn this negligence or fraud or theft or whatever it is into a thorn in someone's butt and make them uncomfortable enough to pay for your lawyer at minimum.

Do a press-release and send story to all major national and regional media, this is very interesting story and deserves good storm. Nation ought to know how buerocrats work for their 6-digit salaries and what citizen has to go through to get some help from agencies we pays arms and legs for through taxes.

[i*m-still-here]

The item is now on eBay and I'm bidding on it.

If I don't win it again it will be shipped off in a few days.......... who knows where?  US/Japan/UK/Australia??

A lawyer?  The item will be gone by the time I even get through the door.

I posted a link for a similar situation above but mine is much more extreme, so I've also thought about publicity, but I'm tired of dealing with it.

I agree that it's outrageous....................

The reaction of the PO was that both the seller and I have our money back so why make such a fuss?

I received a refund and she has a check from TPI.

A lot of reason to be upset IMO ........... but when all is said and done I'm hitting a dead end everywhere I turn and have been for months.

It's been annoying, and stressful every step of the way but I think I'm done.

I've spent too much time already.

Even here on the message board where it seems that almost no one cares much either .... :).

[marnotom!]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

Even if the item had been incorrectly addressed to me the seller had her return address on the package and it should have been returned to her.

Even if both addresses were somehow trashed, then the barcode was there and it should have been traceable.

If all that failed, it should have been returned to the States and not auctioned off in Canada.

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If the item had a completely different address on it, it could have wound up in somebody else's hands.  The seller of your item may have purchased it from the person who actually received your item, or some similar scenario.

And if the mailing label were trashed, the USPS-generated barcode would have been trashed, as well.  And if there were still a Canada Post barcode, there wouldn't have been enough information there to get the item back to its original destination, no?  Perhaps in scenarios like that, an item like that would have been considered "dead" and not returnable.

In any event, I'm not completely convinced of this story about a "postal auction" for your item.

[i*m-still-here]

marmotom.......... 

That's even more of a long shot than my theory is.

It had tracking which shows it was lost at customs.  No one is contesting that.  The tracking also shows that it never left customs and was never delivered.

You are saying that the seller addressed it incorrectly and then lied to me about that mistake for two months and pretended to trace it and call the PO even though she knew better.

(You are also suggesting that shipsurance never caught onto that error.)

You're also suggesting that it was then delivered to the incorrect address she mailed it to even though the tracking shows it was lost and never delivered.  That location is not even close to mine.  It's a completely different city with a different postal code.

Also........... the item was scanned into the building so they had the barcode on file even if the packaging was desttoyed by them later during processing.

It was intact when it entered the buidling.

Impossible?  No........................ it just doesn't sound at all plausible to me.

[i*m-still-here]

BTW.......... I also considered all of that when I thought the seller was pulling a fast one and now you've made me wonder yet again.

The seller did not buy online shipping.

She mailed from the PO.

It's still a little odd that the new seller lifted the original description from the original listing.

The new seller could even have lifted the original seller's photos as they are very similar.

Also odd that it showed up on eBay the day after the seller was issued her check.

Also a little odd that the seller completely stopped emailing me as soon as I told her I was leaving her PFB even though she's been calling and emailing every day prior to that and sometimes twice.

Stopped dead after I told her I'd leave PFB.

Also, that seller is very sharp and right on top of all the details.

She knows her stuff.

I don't know................  but if it's a scam it's tight and not a nut I'll ever crack.

Just way too many questions at every turn.