Is anybody else having problems at the border?

[surplusdealdude]

I just got refused entry today - apparently I didn't have a Certificate of Origin sheet for 6 orders worth $120.00.:O

Come to think of it, I had an inquiry last month from Fedex Trade Networks over the CoO form as well, but they finally discovered that it wasn't required for orders under $2500.

The guard today was a bear. Didn't like my Dangerous Goods form, says it wasn't certified, when it says right on it that I certify this to be true, didn't like the CoO stuff, told me that I'd have to have proof from the manufacturer that this was their products ( I don't deal with the manufacturer, so that's going to be fun)

So - 150 mile round trip for nothing.

[femmefan1946]

Are you in "The Computer" now?

A (foreign -born Canadian) colleague can no longer carry any goods across the border since he got stopped a few years ago.

His (American ) wife bought a car in her name and now she does all the shipping. They had the plates on his car on file.

[cottonwoodindustries]

Are you in "The Computer" now?

They had the plates on his car on file.

Change your plates,

I had been going across the border for years every week, I knew the US border guards quite well. Got new plates when I bought another car, when I went through, the guard who i knew, had to call another guard to check on my car, after several weeks, I finally asked why all the fuss, he told me it was the plates, they were wanted in Ontario, and their system just checks the #, not the province.

That day went to ICBC, got new plates, cost me $50, but never stopped at the border again. NO MORE RED FLAGS, maybe that would help for your situation.

Start fresh......just a thought 😉

[jakeeangel]

Why are they looking for the COO? Are you claiming NAFTA or something? What the heck are you bringing over and what paperwork are you using? Dangerous goods???

Oh and I saw your Macaw toys when I went to look at your stuff to figure out the above questions. Um....really bad info there Dude. When people say my bird 'eats' them they don't mean literally like you eat your breakfast as in chew and swallow and then later poop out. They are jokingly referring to how a bird destroys a toy. Do NOT advocate a bird to eat plastic of any kind! It will kill a bird.

Whoever gave you that blurb about them eating it and it being like gravel is full of baloney and don't know what they're talking about. Budgies bodies need gravel to digest the seeds that some people feed them. Macaws do not!

[surplusdealdude]

I don't think I'm in "The Computer" - well, I might be NOW.

And I don't like the plate idea - it masks the issue instead of solving the problem. Might get banned if they found out.

Why are they looking for the COO? Are you claiming NAFTA or something?

Yes, they're NAFTA items. The border guard suggested that I might want to use Fedex Trade Networks as a broker and have them clear the items from now on - I'm thinking about it.

I think this guard is somewhat over-zealous. He not only wants the CoO form, he wants letters from the manufacturer saying that they make this plastic. I can see where he's coming from, but for such small orders, I can't see a reason for such extreme measures.

These are not dangerous goods in the normal sense, although I have been including a TSCA form - Toxic Substances Control Act. The form simply states that these items are not covered by the Act. Most guards ignore it or tell me they don't need it - this guard complained that it wasn't "certified" when it says right on the form that, " I certify this to be true."

He also claims that we discussed this before - we didn't - not to this level. He also claims that an invoice from my supplier won't be sufficient - I don't buy from the manufacturer, but he wants me to get the CoO from them.


As for the Macaw toys, that wasn't my idea - it was the idea of about 5 macaw owners at a wood show. If macaws are nut eaters, they will require some pebble material to grind up the nuts. I've seen chickens and wild turkeys do the same at the side of the road.

This plastic won't hurt the bird at all - it's totally non-reactive. Humans could eat it if they could chew it and it would be safe.

[surplusdealdude]

I'm using the "free of duty" manifest, as well - the one that you use for shipments p to $2000?

I've been getting inspected almost every time since January. A guard has told me it's the form, not me.

I'm using the old form, too - anybody know what the new one's number is? Might as well get that fixed at the same time.

[jakeeangel]

As for the Macaw toys, that wasn't my idea - it was the idea of about 5 macaw owners at a wood show. If macaws are nut eaters, they will require some pebble material to grind up the nuts. I've seen chickens and wild turkeys do the same at the side of the road.

This plastic won't hurt the bird at all - it's totally non-reactive. Humans could eat it if they could chew it and it would be safe.

Sorry but you know nothing about birds and you admit such in your listing. I do. Parrots do NOT need anything to grind up their food or nuts or whatever. Chickens and turkeys are not parrots. They may have feathers but they are not the same and their insides don't work the same way. At all.

I've had birds for almost 30 years. I'm a certified avian specialist. I don't pretend to know everything but I do know a lot. What you say is bull. Birds do NOT eat plastic and anyone advocating such is a complete fool. The birds will play with it, chomp it and chuck it to the floor and enjoy doing so but they will not eat it. Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT advocate that birds - parrots of any kind - eat plastic like budgies eat gravel.

I'm not sure what part of this you're not getting but it will kill them. I know you don't like to be wrong and won't admit you have a mouth full of poop even when you do and you seem to enjoy saying anything that is the opposite of what I say but you are as wrong as a $3 bill on this one. Their crops cannot process plastic and it will sit there and cause problems, lead to crop infections, the good food they eat will rot inside their crop because this hunk of plastic isn't going anywhere and blocking the good food from being processed and passed through their body and that will kill them.

I'm trying to help you but for whatever reason you don't want to hear it.


You seem to be causing your own problems. The form is 7523 and has always been 7253 since I've been going over. Don't give them what they don't need. KISS To me it sounds like you're giving double-speak. They don't like that. Not dangerous in the normal sense. What does that mean exactly? If it's not dangerous or toxic then why are you giving that form? If it is toxic then you must comply with the various rules for that.

"He also claims that we discussed this before - we didn't - not to this level." Which is it? You can't have it both ways. Either you did or you didn't. They don't care how long you discussed it. When they tell you something it gets entered into the system. It doesn't have to be a back and forth conversation. Them saying do this or don't do this is them ;discussing' it wtih you even if it's only a few words.

If the shipment is under the $2000 why are you handing them NAFTA paperwork? You hand them NAFTA paperwork and they require the COO and letter from the manufacturer for that. I used to fill those out where I worked many, many years ago. That's just the way it works. One must accompany the other.

[surplusdealdude]

The TSCA form is required by Fedex Trade Networks when I send an order of UHMW ( my most harmless plastic) to my US distributor. They won't process it unless I attach the form.

Some guards just accept it, some question it, some hand it back, some hand everything back except the top sheet. There's no way to know if they want it or not, so I include it. One possible alternative is to keep it in the car and then provide it with explanation if they ask for it.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways. Either you did or you didn't

We did not discuss the details, but I'm not going to make a fight over it. I've now checked and he does have the right to be over-zealous if he wants and apparently he wants.



If the shipment is under the $2000 why are you handing them NAFTA paperwork?

Because that's the form I was told to use. Now that I've checked, there is no mention of NAFTA on it - I'm using the 7523, too.

So now I'm wondering why he made such a big fuss - even if the stuff was dutiable, I should have been allowed in under the general $2,000 limit.

I think I need to call these guys on Monday and speak to a supervisor. Either I'm missing something important, or this is a guard throwing his weight around.


The TSCA form is not a NAFTA document - it's our equivalent of dangerous goods documentation - we would call my orders "consumer quantities".


As for the Macaws, I will change the listing to note that there is disagreement on the issue.

[jakeeangel]

As for the Macaws, I will change the listing to note that there is disagreement on the issue.

LOL whatever......you should maybe try doing a smattering of research on the subject of parrots needing/not needing grit. There are people out there who say parrots only eat seed too. That's not a disagreement. That's stupidity and blatantly false.

[bb_cool_stuff]

Welcome back Surplus

[kingstonconsignment1]

I have always found summer months difficult at the border. many new faces I don"t recognize. Maybe summer holiday replacements.

Forms I use are 7523 and 7533 and and excell spreadsheet as my manifest.

My last visit, they sent me over for inspection. They said my paperwork was an informal entry. Most of the customs officers have very limited knowledge.

[jakeeangel]

The 7523 IS an informal entry.

[surplusdealdude]

Heck, I've been sent into secondary inspection every second trip since January.

One guard has said that it has to do with the informal entry and I guess now I know why.

An update on the situation;

I have now spent a week talking to my supplier, my supplier's supplier and having my supplier talk to their supplier.

I mailed all of the existing orders from Canada ( goodbye, profit!) to be safe and put the store on vacation.

The issue is certainly real - I'm going to have to provide the CoO for all of the products.

Legally, there are problems with the manufacturer issuing a certificate of origin to me, because they don't sell directly to me and can't just assume that I'm taking their product across the border. I think that's reasonable, but it does present a bit of a dilemma.

After some fancy footwork from a really effective guy that works for my supplier, one of their suppliers has issued a blanket CoO for all of their product TO my supplier. In discussions with a US Customs supervisor, all I need now is a simple letter from my supplier stating that they sell this stuff to me ( and I might take one of their invoices along, just in case.

I now have to repeat this for about 5 of their other suppliers.

My keypunch card plates are going to be a problem - there is no way I can get a CoO for them - the manufacturer is out of business and so is the company that ordered them. I'll check with Customs, but they may have to be mailed from Canada from now on.

This is so much fun.:_|

[femmefan1946]

Does "antique" or "vintage" help at all with the plates?

DH once (early 1970s) got stopped for having banned literature in the car. Once he handed over the copy of Plato's Republic, he was waved through. They never asked about the two draft dodgers in the back seat.

[surplusdealdude]

:^O

I don't know yet - it's on the list of questions to ask them the next time I'm down.

It's not a heartbreak if they won't allow them across - I can send them almost as cheaply through Canada Post.

[dipmicro]

What's puzzling is that you need some paperwork that CanadaPost does not. As couriers, you and CanadaPost should be equal (please, correct me someone if I am wrong here).

The only difference that comes to mind is CanadaPost enters formally while you are doing informal. I think you need the broker or piggy-back onto someone who uses formal entries.

I am not sure if ChitChatExpress uses formal or informal, email him.

[surplusdealdude]

With their volume, it would have to be a formal entry - they're taking about 300 over at a time, from what I understand.

I thought it was strange, too, since the total of all of the items for that shipment was $120. Americans can take $200 over at a time and I got sent back for $120.

Well, next time, I'll be prepared for the guy - I'll be submitting a book every time from now on, from the looks of it.

[jakeeangel]

I thought it was strange, too, since the total of all of the items for that shipment was $120. Americans can take $200 over at a time and I got sent back for $120.

???

What does that have to do with anything? What American citizens bring back to their own country from a day trip has NO bearing whatsoever on what you bring over as a commercial importer. You're comparing apples to pineapples. They're two completely different things.

[dipmicro]

Just curious - is it worth to drive 150 miles to ship $120 worth of items? What are the savings on postage? Did you try to register with e-shipper and run few quotes?

Btw. the $200 is PERSONAL duty free allowance. I am not sure, how you do your paperwork and if it's even possible to enter informally while you act as agent of your customer - I think you would need a separate paperwork for each shipment, but I am not sure. I specify myself as importer of record and since it's commercial entry, there is no duty free allowance whatsoever.

The $120 value has nothing to do with anything. While ago I also got myself on "the list" for measly $40 value I declared verbally while rest of the items were on the manifest. Bully guard was threatening to remove privilege of Informal Entry from me and said one more problem on the border and I will be only allowed formal entries. This same guy made me pay $0.06 in duties while other guards have always waved me in with $2-$3 in duties (I have very few dutiable items).

[surplusdealdude]

Just curious - is it worth to drive 150 miles to ship $120 worth of items?

Not really, but I take the long view on that. It was the holiday weekend when sales are normally slow anyway, and I figure that I don't complain when I take $1500 over in a trip, so I'm not going to complain when it's a $100.

Overall, I think it's worth it.

I get your point about the "no duty free allowance" on commercial entries.

And I suspect you're right about a 'bully guard' mentality at work. I've run into other guards that like to harass people - I just smile and act super nice to them and agree with everything they say.

It drives them nuts.]:)