Need assistance about a cheater... Thanks....

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Hi all,

I have a situation here about a $350 item. I would not post anything if it was for a $20 item, but I would like to know your opinions ou hear your suggestions.

A buyer purchased several expensive items on auction within a few days. I shipped three packages to the US with "Expedited Parcel USA", with full insurance and tracking. He received a first one, it was okay, then he received a second one, but told me item was as described, but was not exactly what he expected. He mentioned item was exactly as received, I told him to return the item for refund. He returned expedited also, with insurance and signature, and marked package as "returned to seller".

Two days later, he emails me again, he just opened the third package. There was an item he loved, but wanted to return another one  (value of $180). I politely told him to return that one also, but I am selling on eBay since 2006 and told him it was surprising to have two returns from same buyer in the same week, when I usually have less than one return per year... He said he was sorry about the situation but definitely wanted to return that item too. All right...

Yesterday I signed for the first package that arrived. The content was "altered", not in the same condition it was shipped. Buyer "worked" on the item. My return policy specify that no return is accepted if item is not as received. He told me it was unaltered the day before he shipped back. I even noticed he tried to hide the alteration. Thing is, I can't simply relist the item as is, it's spoiled.

I know I'll be told that buyer always wins, to refund and forget it. But I have NOT signed yet for the second package.

What could happen if I refuse to accept the second package (which probably contains another altered, or a rock, who knows...) ? I am expected a fraudulent returned package in other words.

I am wondering if I have something that I can handle here, not just stupidly refund the bad buyer.

I met only a few similar bad buyers since 2006, they are rare, and I feel I maybe have something to work with here. I feel he maybe made a mistake by shipping two items to return, but in two packages...

Any thoughts ? What would you do ?

[pierrelebel]

"The content was "altered", not in the same condition it was shipped. Buyer "worked" on the item. I even noticed he tried to hide the alteration. Thing is, I can't simply relist the item as is, it's spoiled."

Could you please provide more information on the product, the nature of the "alteration", why you feel the buyer tried to "hide" the alteration and why the item is now worthless.

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Hi Pierre, thanks for your reply...

The product is "uncleaned ancient coins", which are dirty roman coins, as found by modern excavators in the Balkans.

The buyer actually cleaned them, and re-dirted them with dirt from his backyard or something (Balkans dirt is grey, his was brown/red, bot the same at all, as been added on purpose to cheat).

The item is now worthless because it has been "tried", and I have many repeat buyers who could win the item if I relist, and quickly notice they are not "as found"...

I would have to remove that added dirt, which mean coins won't be "uncleaned" anymore. They are already not uncleaned. I am an uncleaned coins seller, I won't resell those, cleaned by the buyer with I dont know which technique...

A question. What will happen if I refuse the second package ? I always read that signature is required when shipping, to get protection. Is eBay/PayPal is still going to refund the buyer even if I have not received it ?

If it's the case, that would mean a buyer don't have to return the itenm at all to get a refund, isn't it ? One could cheat once a day with a different seller, and gather a large inventory of stolen items from eBay sellers and start his own eBay store to resell them, in other words...

Maybe it would pay more to buy on eBay than to sell if eBay protects the cheaters all the time...

[pierrelebel]

"What will happen if I refuse the second package ? I always read that signature is required when shipping, to get protection. Is eBay/PayPal is still going to refund the buyer even if I have not received it ?"

I do not know how PayPal would make a decision but I suspect you would lose.

Your idea of refusing the second return is based on the assumption that the second item being returned has also been "altered".  Maybe, maybe not.

I suggest you contact the buyer by telephone and explain the problem.  Either the buyer is honest or he is not.  The only way to find out is through direct communications.

Good Luck.

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Thanks....

And about the insurance I bought and the insurance he bought to return, is there something to do with it ?

From my point of view, I have not received the item in perfect condition as sender told me...

Any thoughts about insurance and if it could help the situation ?

[pierrelebel]

Postal insurance covers loss and damage while in transit.  It has nothing to do with a buyer cleaning a coin and reducing its value in the process.

[purse_of_the_legionary]

You are right, thanks for your help.

[nicki9912]

Personally I would wash my hands of this buyer. Accept the package, refund and then BLOCK him from ever bidding again. It's just not worth the hassle

[femmefan1946]

The truth is most people are honest and if you live your life expecting to be cheated-- well, as the say "the terrorists have won".

Why are uncleaned coins more valuable than cleaned? Is the collector looking for silver or gold among the bronze and copper? I would think the coin itself would have more value as a collectible than its melt value? Or is it that the cleaning reveals "better" more interesting and rarer coins, so a cleaned lot is likely a cherry-picked lot?

[ezrecreation]

i agree, wash your hands, sellers never win ANY time it comes to a case. I love the blocking feature, i use it often to block unpaying bidders, anyone who files a claim that is not being fair, and anyone who sends rude questions complaining about price or shipping charges that they don't do some research first.  in over 10 years, probably 10 -20 paypal claims, never one a single one yet. even ones that had signature and tracking #.  thankfully probably 90% were canadapost small packet air mail, so i was covered with the $100 free insurance, just took about 4 months average to get my money back, but i did in every case.  if your going to be on ebay you have to accept the fact that you will lose every case, great day if you win one, accept that you will have to file claims and wait for CPost to take their time paying you. and you have to accept that the flawed DSR rating system will eventually have you not metting the requirements for top rated seller status and the 20% discount.  the biggest flaw is the shipping question, buyers confuse this with how long it took to get the item, not how long the seller took to ship, which is the acutal question.  and when anything goes wrong, an upset buyer will leave all 1's in frustration.

you can bet if you get a negative feedback, you got all 1's for sure.

[zarzuella]

i agree, wash your hands, sellers never win ANY time it comes to a case.

I'm sorry, but that simply is not true.

OP, you really need to call eBay (during regular business hours) and explain the situation.  For all you know this could be a pattern of behaviour shown by this buyer and he could have other complaints registered against him.

Pierre is correct, you should also communicate with the buyer on this but I would make sure to confirm the content of any conversation in writing through eBay.

[femmefan1946]

I love the blocking feature, i use it often to block unpaying bidders,

A sensible move, but I hope you are also helping other sellers by pursuing the Non-Payment Dispute, giving the NPB a Strike.

And we in turn can help you, because you can Block bidders with our Strikes through your Seller Preferences.

[fatdane]

Bkoack the bidder before he can do any more damage to you.

Resign yourself to the fact that you are going to be out $350.00 - but thats a tax write off if nothing else.

Report the matter to the US Postal Inspctors, the RCMP and the local Police in the area where the buyer lives. If the buyer is trying to get $350 out of your hide he is probably trying to do the same to others, and the $ value involved might be enough to get the Postal Inspectors involved.