Negative Feedback threat

[toysandstuff2015]

Buyer bid on and won 14 items. They requested combined shipping - even though there were set shipping costs per item. I had no problem combining shipping and instead of the 200+ costs in shipping, offered a $65.00 option. The buyer then began threatening to leave bad feedback if the shipping wasn't further reduced to 40.00. They have since inferred that they will make a claim that the item is not as described when they receive it and refused to cancel the order. They have paid, but again repeated that they expect a substantial refund for lower shipping and intend to leave negative feedback. I am now receiving messages detailing how the items should be packed to reduce shipping. I need the harassment to stop and want to cancel the order as I have no doubt that negative feedback will be left and a claim for the full amount will be entered. Added to this I am heading out on vacation in the next 24 hours and am unable to address complaints raised by this user. The user has refused to cancel the order and now paid via paypal however with the caveat that they intend to request a refund. Since they refused to cancel the order through ebay's system I seem to be stuck, but I don't want to throw away 400+ dollars in merchandise to this situation. I have told the buyer I will happily refund their purchase and they have messaged that they will then demand the items regardless, as I am violating their rights demonstrated by their payment. I don't care about the ebay or paypal fees, I want this buyer off my back and to stop emailing me.

[pierrelebel]

"They have paid"

What exactly have they paid? and when?

" and want to cancel the order"  Did you ship or are you waiting for....?

 Your listings read :"Combined shipping is available for items bought together. "

Have you determined how much the shipping would actually be if all items are shipped together?  or are you guessing at $65?

[toysandstuff2015]

After two days of debating and over 40 messages, they paid the full amount for the items plus the requested 65 for shipping, but have included a note with the payment and since messaged that they want the difference refunded and will leave negative feedback if the shipping method chosen is more than 45.00.  No I have not shipped the item, as I have the strongest sense that I will simply loose the funds and the items in this transaction.  My hope is to cancel the order, refund their money and have both of us go our own way.

[toysandstuff2015]

Yes, as I stated and do state in my listings combined shipping is available and have no problem offering that - which I did.  The postage amount was determined on the Canada Post online calculator based on the weight of 14 items, size of the necessary box, and insurance to cover all items.  I did not simply choose a random number.

[sylviebee]

As soon as it became apparent that things were going awry, I would just have calculated actual shipping and then offered to split the cost with the buyer.

Nothing is worth the type of stress this transaction is generating, and certainly not shipping costs for a $400 purchase from a buyer who bought multiple items from me.

I don' know if it's too late, but that might till be an option if you can bring yourself around to that way of thinking.

[toysandstuff2015]

I can appreciate the desire to compromise - however I am also left wondering why it is up to the seller to begin paying for part of the shipping for particular buyers. Regardless, good advice.

With that said however, I am also concerned about their comment that negative feedback is forthcoming as is a likely claim for a complete refund once the items have arrived to them. So in this instance, I am unsure how to proceed given that I have now been told that I am going to have negative feedback left and likely loose the purchase price. Sorry I am frustrated. Your advice is appreciated.

[toysandstuff2015]

Are there consequences (beyond negative feedback) to simply refunding the buyer their full amount and declaring that I am unable to ship the items? 

[reallynicestamps]

You get a Defect on your seller account.

Not too terrible if it is only one. Fourteen might be a stretch.

Same with Feedback. Only one will count in your percentage, but 14 red doughnuts will not look good to buyers who look at feedback . You can add Responses to feedback (yours or his) of course, but if it comes to that, make it calm and factual. Let him look like a drooling anger monkey and you like a hardworking paragon.

The buyer then began threatening to leave bad feedback if the shipping wasn't further reduced to 40.00.

Aha!! Feedback Extortion!!

YOU WIN!!

Keep those Messages and emails (with headers) and phone Customer Support.

[toysandstuff2015]

Thank you for the advice.  I called Customer Service and never seemed to get through to anyone who could address the issue.  Hence turnign to the Discussion Boards.

[toysandstuff2015]

That was my initial sense, that this was feedback extortion. When I messaged them saying that I did not appreciate the threat. They responded that it was their right to inform me of what they would do because I refused to compromise. They insisted that they were not seeking to extort, merely to inform me of the consequences of not doing as they wanted.

I have emailed ebay with all these details, but since the buyer refused to cancel the order and has since paid via paypal, I had no idea what my options are.

[reallynicestamps]

and never seemed to get through to anyone who could address the issue. 

Were you talking to Utah or the Phillippines?

The Phillippinas* are smarter, in my opinion, but seem to have less leeway in what they can do.

The Utah reps can do more, and you can ask to have the problem referred to a supervisor. And even the supervisor's supervisor.

But it may be best to join the Weekly Board on Wednesday.

Is Raphael going to be here this week (Aug 21?) or was he on vacation?

You can reach him at raphael@ebay.com.  He is a Canadian 'pink' and involved at a more useful level than the poor sods in the answering centre cubicles.

For $400, I'd be loathe to continue with the sale too.

You do know that we are allowed to have multiple IDs , right? Just in case this one gets poisoned.

*a couple of my nieces are Phillippina, so I maybe prejudiced.

[toysandstuff2015]

So if I return the buyer's full payment, cancel the order, take the 14 negative feedbacks - I could therefore simply close this account (after my ebay fees are paid of course) and restart with a new account?  Fair advice and the likely result.  I have no problem refunding the user in full, but don't want the emails and such to continue endlessly.

I am unsure which location I was talking to.  I was put on hold for 15 minutes, talked to someone briefly, they sympathized, then asked me to hold again - and never got back to me.  After 30 minutes on hold again I hung up. 

[toysandstuff2015]

I forgot to add, thank you for your advice.

[i.am.vivian · Accepted solution]

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@toysandstuff2015 wrote:

So if I return the buyer's full payment, cancel the order, take the 14 negative feedbacks - I could therefore simply close this account (after my ebay fees are paid of course) and restart with a new account? 

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All sellers have multiple accounts.  What you are NOT allowed to do is start a new account for the purpose of getting around policy violations, like if eBay has sanctioned your account and you are barred from selling then starting a new account to sell anyway.  

You keep saying you are wondering what your options are.  Simple, really, you either 

1)  leave it as is, send the items for $65 knowing you are likely to get hit with 14 negatives 

2)  drop the shipping down to $40 and send the items, certain you will likely get at least a few hits, maybe more

3)  eat the shipping yourself, refund $65 as a peace offering and send the items, knowing you might STILL get hit with a few negs

The problem with all that is as you said the buyer (with over 800 FB is a very experienced buyer, maybe even a reseller) is likely to call NAD no matter what you do.  And eBay is way to quick to just refund a buyer in full without them having to send anything back.  Even if you do get the stuff back it will likely be cherry picked and not all there. 

This leaves your other options being 

4)  refund the buyer in full choosing the least damaging reason but anything other than "Buyer requested" will end in a defect.  You can TRY to get it reduced from 14 defects to just 1 because you are only refunding one ORDER not 14 orders but eBay is not always very helpful about these things.

This option keeps your money in your bank but you can be pretty sure of 14 negatives, maybe 14 Defects.  You do at least get to respond to the negs with some very politely and carefully worded replies about how the buyer tried to scam you.  Other sellers will see this and the buyer will soon find all their bids removed and blocked on other auctions.  Sellers are very watchful about Feedback Left For Others.  

5) refund the buyer choosing the least damaging reason and then call eBay's Customer Service as many times as it takes to get them to understand the buyer is using Feedback Extortion.  Taken from eBay's own policy you can tell them this:

Examples of Feedback extortion

The buyer can't threaten to leave negative Feedback or low detailed seller ratings if the seller won't:

• Give a full or partial refund for an item.

• Lower the shipping and handling costs.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

They buyer is in violation of eBay's policy although you will probably have to tell the CS rep where to find it and read it for themselves.  Its their job to uphold policy but you'd be surprised how clueless they are about it.  

What does the buyers Feedback for others look like?  Any problems?  

I am not offering you ADVICE  just an OPINION  because you have to make up your own mind.  Everyone is different.  I would not put up with this sort of guff, not for $400 or any other amount.  That's me.  I would choose option 5 and try (and try and try) to get any defects and negs removed because sellers should not have to put up with that kind of treatment and should not have to sell to someone who behaves that way toward others.  Some sales are not worth having and you could end up losing it all anyway.  Ask yourself what's matters most to you.  You do NOT want this ruining your vacation which it will if you let it go.  If it was me I would take pleasure in cancelling, refunding, REPORTING the buyer, BLOCKING the buyer, and if the fallout is disastrous enough, using another ID for selling when I got back.  Do whatever helps you sleep best at night.  

[toysandstuff2015]

Thank you so much for your detailed answer.  I have reported the buyer and contacted ebay - including forwarding the messages sent through ebay regarding their intent to leave negative feedback unless I lower shipping, leave negative feedback regardless and now their assertion that I am a scammer and thief (apparently in not sending the items I will be a thief from their store).  If negative feedback is left then it is left, but I would rather refund in good conscience and have the items to resell without problems later than go through what they have detailed is their intent to demand a full refund once received.  Even if that means a massive number of negative feedbacks or being suspended. 

Thank you for taking the time to respond and help - all of you.

[ladybug2785]

Be sure to add the bad buyer to your blocked list. Keep an eye out for another user name using the same shipping address to try it again. We had that happen to us before and he left bad feedback the second time as well. Then he tried it a third time with another user name. Ebay did nothing about it even after we pointed out that the shipping address was the same all 3 times. They kept saying the same shipping address was not proof that it was the same guy. Really?

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

I would definitely pick route #5 too, refund in full and contact ebay customer service. I'd rather deal with this insane buyer now than later and lose $400 worth of items. Sorry to hear that you got targeted by this bad buyer. Is this buyer from US? I wonder if he or she is demanding a cheaper shipping because he or she is stuck on the price points of USPS.

[toysandstuff2015]

Actually the user was in Canada.  I have never had problems from America, European, or Asian buyers.  Most of the difficulties I have faced are from Canadian users who believe that shipping should be much cheaper.

[pierrelebel]

"Actually the user was in Canada"

... and Canada Post wanted $65 to deliver that parcel?

[sylviebee]

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@toysandstuff2015 wrote:
Buyer bid on and won 14 items. They requested combined shipping - even though there were set shipping costs per item. I had no problem combining shipping and instead of the 200+ costs in shipping, offered a $65.00 option. 

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toys, You didn't combine shipping until the buyer requested it.  That would have started the transaction off on a very negative vibe which only went further south as you exchanged a crazy number of emails over the next few days.

I'm not sure what your actual cost of shipping is, but since your buyer is in Canada  you'd be shipping via Expedited and it would take a lot to get it up to $65.

The $40 for shipping as the buyer offered seems more than reasonable.

Had you offered to split shipping costs when you billed $65 (that may still have high enough to cover your actual costs) and saw that your buyer was still an unhappy camper, the buyer migh have been willing to forgive that he had to ask to have the billed reduced from $200+ to $65.

Personally I wouldn't sacrifice a $400+ sale like you seem to be angling towards or have already done for something like you've described above.