Negative feedback for non paying bidders

[tkheatrocks]

Do anybody feel that the negative feeback feature should put back in place for non paying bidders?

[rose-dee]

I thought I saw that buyers will now have to pay immediately for BIN items or it's not really sold. 

This in itself is a huge problem if you use BIN almost exclusively, because inevitably a buyer will 'lose' item(s) to others due to a couple of days' delay in paying.  I prefer to have the freedom to give my buyers' a few days' grace to pay if I wish without having their purchase snatched out from under them by another buyer.  A recipe for negative FB!!

"Immediate Payment Required" isn't the answer - it makes shipping discounts on multiple purchases almost impossible.  I offer items that work well for multiple purchases to save buyers money on shipping.  I tried "IPR" and it caused havoc, confused my customers, and wasted a lot of time and effort to undo, so I use it now only for certain higher-priced items. 

It's a balancing act between avoiding non-payers and encouraging multiple purchases.  I now simply give the non-payers 5 days (unless they contact me to make other arrangements), then file an UID. 

Reinstating sellers' ability to leave negative FB for buyers is not the answer either.  Those who have been on eBay for a few years know it was becoming a ludicrous free-for-all dogfight that scared off buyers. 

However, in my opinion eBay does need to redesign the UID process to permit sellers to close cases and relist faster and prevent buyers from leaving any FB whatsoever once an UID is opened or once a seller agrees to cancel a transaction.  

Yes, the customer is always right, but a customer who doesn't pay isn't in my mind a customer at all.  He/she has broken the tie of good faith between buyer and seller that makes online commerce work.  EBay has leaned in the buyers' direction over the past 2 or 3 years, now they need to give some attention to their sellers as well.

On this last point, I really do not understand why FB should be able to be left by either party in the case of a cancelled transaction -- the sale never happened, both parties want to wash their hands of it, why permit any comment?

[rose-dee]

"A recipe for negative FB!! " -- I should have said above, "A recipe for chasing away customers".  Obviously the buyer who loses the item won't be able to leave any FB, but will probably never come back!

[i*m-still-here]

Well, it's not my preference.

I have (had?) no problem waiting several weeks for payment and I have had very very few nonpaying buyers.

Sellers have been asking ebay to deal with NPBs more harshly for a long time, and this seems like the ebay solution to the problem..

That's what I meant by "Be Careful What You Wish For."

In any case, now looks like a buyer has to pay for BIN items right away or they cannot purchase the item.

Doesn't that mean that there will no longer be UPI cases for BIN items?

To me it looks like payment can only be deferred for auction items from here on in.........

So......... NFB for nonpayers is about to become pretty much a moot issue with the exception of a few auction items.

Unless I've understood the new system incorrectly.

[rose-dee]

In any case, now looks like a buyer has to pay for BIN items right away or they cannot purchase the item.

Doesn't that mean that there will no longer be UPI cases for BIN items?

To me it looks like payment can only be deferred for auction items from here on in.........

So......... NFB for nonpayers is about to become pretty much a moot issue with the exception of a few auction items.

Unless I've understood the new system incorrectly.

I think you may have misunderstood.  BIN is not the same as "Immediate Payment Required" for a BIN item.  At least as of a few days ago, my buyers were still able to commit to buy a BIN item and postpone actual payment for days (or weeks I assume, if the seller agreed).  The problem is that in the meantime, that item is still open for purchase, still listed, and if paid for by another buyer, it's his/hers.

I had this happen recently: A buyer purchased a $300 item from me, I sent an invoice, and he was taking a couple of days to pay.  On Day 2, I noticed to my horror that the item was still shown in my store as an active listing.  I thought this was a glitch until I re-read the recent policy updates.  Fortunately no one else came along and paid for it that day, or my Buyer #1 would have lost his item.  I was in fear of what I would have to say to him in that event. 

Personally I think this is a truly stupid policy which has the potential of encouraging a lot of very angry and frustrated would-be buyers go away and find a better site to buy from!

[rose-dee]

Of course, this means nothing has changed with respect to UID and negative FB.  If Buyer #1 doesn't pay (and no 2nd buyer comes along with instant money), the seller can still file an UID against the original buyer. 

[i*m-still-here]

http://pages.ebay.ca/sellerinformation/news/springupdate2013/unpaiditems.html

[i*m-still-here]

I don't quite understand if a BIN purchase with deferred payment will be considered an actual purchase or not prior to payment.

It can't be both a completed purchase and still open to other buyers and thus not a true commitment to buy, can it?

Can eBay have it both ways?

It's almost like BIN will become an upgraded wish list if the buyer opts not to pay right away.

[pierrelebel]

"It's almost like BIN will become an upgraded wish list if the buyer opts not to pay right away.'

I see it as a shopping cart.

You buy it... your plan to pay later... you change your mind... or realize you do not have the money... do not worry about it.

[pjcdn2005]

http://pages.ebay.ca/sellerinformation/news/springupdate2013/unpaiditems.html

Many fixed price and auction-style items purchased with Buy It Now not sold until the buyer pays

Beginning in May, eligible fixed price listings and auction-style listings purchased with Buy It Now will remain for sale until a buyer has paid for the item. This change will be rolled out slowly over the course of the year and will eliminate a significant number of unpaid items on eBay by the end of 2013.

This sounds confusing to me...for both buyers and sellers.Does that mean that until it is rolled out in full a buyer could buy items from different categories and that some of the items would be available to other buyers until payment was made yet other items would not be.

Then...those categories could possibly be different the following month?

[pjcdn2005]

"It's almost like BIN will become an upgraded wish list if the buyer opts not to pay right away.'

I see it as a shopping cart.

You buy it... your plan to pay later... you change your mind... or realize you do not have the money... do not worry about it.

But..if  I understand this correctly....

As it stands now, if a buyer puts an item in his shopping cart, the seller will not be aware of that until the buyer pays and will not be charged fvf until the buyer pays.

With the new system, it sounds like we will be charged fvf when the buyer clicks on buy it now even if the item is still showing as available to other buyers. So if someone else buys and pays for that item first...we still have to file an unpaid item to recover our fees from the first buyer??

So in that in sense, it is not just like a shopping cart..or am I just not understand how this will work. For some reason, this is really confusing me. 😞

[i*m-still-here]

Every time I read sellers complaining about nonpaying bidders I cringe a little.

I don't mind when buyers defer payments and some take up to a month or to pay.

I've had about 1% of my buyers fail to pay in time and so losing the buyers who choose to wait will hurt me.

This is eBay's response to all the complaints.  Sellers have said over and over that eBay does not listen to them and favours buyers, but that is simply not true.

EBay is listening to the ""vocal"" sellers.

In the process it's becoming a little more tense for buyers here.

It looks like they're easing this in, and that's good news.  Perhaps if the stats show a drop in sales they'll trash the idea.

I know that this is a problem for multiple purchases.  For me that is not the issue.

A lot of buyers just won't push through to paypal once they've used the BIN button and i'm pretty sure that those  sales will be lost.

This does work on Etsy.

The item gets put into a Shopping Cart prior to a purchase and then the buyer can buy it or not.

Sellers also put items on reserve for buyers........... others can still buy but that is rare as a courtesy thing.

A system like that could be implemented here as well.

(EBay following Etsy's lead  :))

At least this will take care of most of the non payers..........  so I guess the sellers always complaining about that will be happy.

I am not.

[pierrelebel]

"it sounds like we will be charged fvf when the buyer clicks on buy it now even if the item is still showing as available to other buyers."

I frankly do not know.  It does not seem to make sense that eBay would charge FVF when there is no effective sale. The information is nowhere to be found on eBay's site.  I guess we will find out when the situation actually happens to one of us.

I expect FVF will only be charged when a transaction takes place. But, who knows? This is eBay and they have done strange things at times. 

[rose-dee]

It does not seem to make sense that eBay would charge FVF when there is no effective sale. The information is nowhere to be found on eBay's site.  I guess we will find out when the situation actually happens to one of us.

I expect FVF will only be charged when a transaction takes place. But, who knows?

I can say that I've had one of these "new" BIN transactions occur, and the FVF was charged immediately upon the first buyer choosing to purchase.  The item remained unpaid by the first buyer for a few days (and also remained  an active listing for anyone else to buy during that time).  This particular item was getting a great deal of attention and hits and I knew it was too attractive to remain unsold for long (the first buyer chose it the day after I listed it).  I can tell you I was on pins and needles hoping the first buyer would hurry up and pay.  I dreaded having to explain THAT situation to a frustrated buyer.  I can't say what would have happened had a second buyer come along and snatched it up from the first -- probably no additional FVF, and -- I would hope!

I fail to see how eBay thinks this policy will deter or lessen non-paying buyers.  Perhaps they think that once enough people have had this happen to them, buyers will realize that if they don't pay quickly, they'll lose their item.  But this concept could backfire on eBay.

It removes sellers' abilities to accept delayed payment if they wish.  Can you imagine someone choosing a "BIN" item, emailing to ask if it would be OK if they paid in 5 days, you reply and say no problem, and then the next day another buyer snaps up and pays for that item.  As a buyer, I'd be angry - probably at the hapless seller, who had no control over the situation -- or, more properly, at eBay, and I might just decide to avoid eBay completely. 

[pierrelebel]

"Can you imagine someone choosing a "BIN" item, emailing to ask if it would be OK if they paid in 5 days, you reply and say no problem, and then the next day another buyer snaps up and pays for that item. "

That is the problem.

As stated last month, when the new policy was announced, I feel it is stupid and ill advised.

As a consequence, I have ended all my fixed price listings when only one item is available.  I refuse to let my buyers be disappointed by a system that is out of control. My listings clearly state that "payment within seven days will be appreciated".

To keep my fixed price listings on eBay with their new policy would be a contradiction to my long standing policy of "customer service". Shame on eBay for accepting the view of a small minority and imposing it on the majority.

[pierrelebel]

"I can say that I've had one of these "new" BIN transactions occur, and the FVF was charged immediately upon the first buyer choosing to purchase.  The item remained unpaid by the first buyer for a few days (and also remained  an active listing for anyone else to buy during that time). "

That surprised me.  I checked my sellers account - line by line - and did not experience such instance.

I understood from the eBay annoucenment that the new policy would only take place starting in May:

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/springupdate2013/unpaiditems.html?sspagename=SIC:spring... 

"Beginning in May, eligible fixed price listings and auction-style listings purchased with Buy It Now will remain for sale unless the buyer pays right away.

[i*m-still-here]

It sounds like the system is the same as it used to be except that the item is not taken off the market.

That's ODD!!!   And a very twisted way to do things.

BUT....... a little better than I thought.

I was worried that buyers wouldn't purchase the item if they had to pay immediately as a lot of my buyers like to wait to pay.  I have no idea why nor do I care.

I'm hoping that we can still alter the listing if someone has used the BIN function without payment.

This wouldn't work for sellers with a lot of sales, but I sell only a few items here.

The easiest solution would be to make changes that make it very unlikely that others will purchase.............

That's not hard to do as long as we are still allowed to revise after a BIN has taken place.

[i*m-still-here]

rose-dee............. when I read your post that sounded so twisted.......

...... and since it doesn't start until May perhaps that isn't the way it's going to be done.

That would be very awkward and odd................. the way you described it.

In the new system it makes no sense at all that FVFs would be charged prior to payment.

A system like Etsy uses makes much more sense.

The item probably just gets put in a Shopping Cart and the seller may not even be informed about it unless he or she specifically checks to see if any buyers have moved items into their carts or "BIN Wannabee" lists.

[rose-dee]

The easiest solution would be to make changes that make it very unlikely that others will purchase...

I expect we'd find that revisions wouldn't be permitted once a BIN item was purchased, even if unpaid.  I didn't think of trying this at the time, i.e. making the listing look so ugly that NO ONE would want it (:^O) so I can't say whether it would have been allowed or not.  Next time I will, but what a pain!  I wish eBay had just not tinkered with this.

As far as why my particular item was 'targeted' for the new policy, I'm as much in the dark as anyone here.  As I said, I was horrified to see my listing still live after it had been purchased.  Maybe eBay was trying a random experimental rollout of the policy to see how it worked -- lucky me.:-(

[rose-dee]

rose-dee............. when I read your post that sounded so twisted.......

...... and since it doesn't start until May perhaps that isn't the way it's going to be done.

That would be very awkward and odd................. the way you described it.

In the new system it makes no sense at all that FVFs would be charged prior to payment.

Yes, it was upsetting for me -- at least until my Buyer#1 processed payment.  I was on the verge of emailing him to try to explain that he needed to hurry, but luckily he paid.

I've just checked my March fees and the FVF on this item (a $200 item), is shown as being charged on the day my buyer 'purchased' it (not the date he finally paid). You may be right though that I was a guinea pig and this won't be the way it will work once it's formally rolled out.  Perhaps eBay will change the FVF system to suit this new ill-conceived concept.

At any rate, I now have to decide how to handle this.  I do not want my buyers to be frustrated in this way -- to a buyer, this will feel worse than sniping. 

I may take Pierre's approach and require immediate payment on all single items (or at least single items of particular value and attractiveness); those with multiples I can leave as is.  This will mean difficulties with combined purchases for shipping discounts, and may also scare off buyers who might otherwise buy but need a few days to pay.  I don't see a silver lining to this cloud at all.:|

[pierrelebel]

"Pierre's approach and require immediate payment on all single items"

I do not.  I do not believe on the "immediate payment" concept. I think it is wrong.