Refund issued by ebay. Item NOT returned

[pinetreecottage]

Bad experience with ebay  "return request" and refund request".  I asked here a while back about Paypal freezing my funds. 

A buyer requested a return, I agreed.  She claims she returned the item.  I asked for a track. #.  That was the last I heard from her.  Next, she opened a case.  Got nice email from CS about how much they appreciate my continued excellent service for 12 years.  Yesterday March 4, I got another nice email from CS, stating that since she did not provide any proof of return, the case would be on hold for 5 days, to give her time to respond.  Lo and behold, I just got an email from CS today March 5, 1 day later, that the case has been closed in her favor.  She got a full refund.  I have spent the last hour on the phone with 3 different CS ladies, getting transferred around the office, while they "looked into it".  Eventually, the line went dead.  They must have a place to put you "on hold" with dead air, when they have no answer.  Nobody comes back, so there is no choice but to hang up.

Bottom line, it would seem a buyer can get a refund, by just asking for it.  All sellers out there, should be prepared to lose from time to time, even if you do everything right.

[pjcdn2005]

Are you sure that the funds came out of your account and that it wasn't an ebay courtesy refund? If you did pay for the refund, you should phone again as the buyer should not have been refunded until the tracking showed the package being delivered.  It should work that way as long as you clicked on return for refund.

What was the reason for the return? If it was for not as described then you have received a defect as well. You might not be able to get them to take it off but they do take them off occasionally when the buyer doesn't return an item.

[pinetreecottage]

Yes, it came out of my Paypal acct.  I too questioned why the refund was issued, that's what they (CS) was looking into.  Like I said in the first message, I eventually  was transferred to  a dead air "hold", I then hung up.  As the case is closed, I guess that's the end of it.

[pinetreecottage]

She claimed it was ripped to pieces, it was a mink jacket in perfect condition.  So, yes I have a defect on my dashboard.

[pjcdn2005]

As the case is closed, I guess that's the end of it.

Not if you're persistent. They goofed up if they refunded without a return and IF you clicked on return for refund. If you just clicked on refund (it doesn't sound like you did) then the situation is different.

[pinetreecottage]

Thanks, I'll try again in the morning.  The message I posted here a while back, seems to have been removed.  I said then, that the "return requested" site had a technical glitch.  None of the buttons worked, I contacted CS at that time, she agreed there was a glitch.  I contacted buyer through the message system, and OK'd the return.  After that, I got nothing from her.  All the emails from CS, said to wait until there was proof of return.  As the funds had been frozen by then, all I had to do was wait, or so I thought.

[pjcdn2005]

It's possible that a bot closed it since you didn't actually reply to the request.  Check to make sure that you didn't get a unsettled claim strike as well.

[pinetreecottage]

No, just the defect.  Thanks for your input here.  I'm in over my head with this.  I've never had anything happen, that wasn't straightened out by CS.  I'll post any new developments.

[Anonymous]

Since you said the mink has been ripped, did you shipped it with insurance and tracking number/  If yes, file a claim for damage.

[paintingartz]

I'm sorry your having difficulties. I as well have just had something similar happen within the past few days. A customer bought a breakable item, it was packaged properly, and shipped fast. I received confirmation it has arrived and was accepted. Almost a month later a case is opened up claiming the item was broken and my PayPal funds frozen without the buyer contacting me. I contacted Ebay and was advised buyers have up to 30 days after a purchase to claim. I had opted out of Ebay's return, also made my selling terms as required, and also checked off will not accept returns in my listing. Turns out it all doesn't mean anything. Ebay's 30 day company policy trumps any setting you select or policy you make it turns out. And when agreeing to sell on Ebay all seller are subjected to this. So for sellers someone can buy something off of you that is breakable, have it for almost a month, break it by any means, and the seller is still responsible to issue a full refund because of the policy. It blew my mind. It's very frustrating, and confuses me on how we're expected to conduct business. It seems sellers have very little to no power. 😞

[pinetreecottage]

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles too.  Maybe we're not seeing the big picture.  Ebay was started as an on line "garage sale", where sellers like you and I had a market place, for our collectables and pre-owned items.   With so many sellers of new junk, from far away places,  infesting ebay, there is no need for protection for us.  The fees must just be rolling in.  We're probably seen as more of an irritant, than an asset.

With this new return policy, I will not be selling any more.  I would have a nervous breakdown, every time I shipped.  And yes, I agree, why bother adding our own conditions, when it makes no difference. 

Thanks for every ones input here.

[paintingartz]

Thanks for the reply and feeling the same way I do. I also will be pulling my items and closing. I'm not sure what I will do with all my items, but I'll figure it out. It's a shame this is the direction Ebay has chosen to go. Without sellers there is no Ebay. I guess once people start getting wind of this several sellers will be leaving as well because who can conduct a successful business this way? Maybe when the fees stop rolling in, then Ebay may change their tactics. I have spoken to several sellers who are also under the false sense of security that opting out of Ebay's return policy means they are operating on their own terms. Because why would they even give us the option if it doesn't exist? That's like buying insurance that doesn't cover your car. I noticed now they are also allowing buyers to come back on you as far as November now due to the holidays. Another new policy. Very scary to be a seller on Ebay these days. Good luck to you on your future endeavors!

[pinetreecottage]

The last installment to this horror story.  Just talked to CS again, they now say, buyer was able to provide track. #.  When I asked for it, she could not provide it.  I asked, if there was signature required, she said no. As I still do not have this item back, I asked, what else can I do.  I lost $61.00 US.  She said, they don't bother with small amounts like that.  She's sorry.  So that, as they say, is that. 

[maximus7001]

Keep calling them every day until it is resolved. I think there is no tracking number and that they are lying to cover their mistake.

[femmefan1946]

Yes. Keep asking for the tracking number.

Remember that what they really need is not tracking but Confirmation of Delivery. They should not be refunding unless the sender can prove the other party has actually received the item. (They even will do this if the recipient actually refused the delivered parcel)

In fact, make that the question. What is the Confirmation of Delivery number? What is the date of the delivery? To what address was the item returned?

$61 for a mink jacket? Why am I wearing this respectable Republican cloth*?

*Ancient Nixon joke from the 50s.

[pinetreecottage]

Thanks for that.  I will try again.  Strange, the lady who told me that they had a track. #, was actually American, not Philipino , and she was in California. 

[tombeshoff]

Here's my story.  Sent gold coin to Australia.  Buyer complains that coin is scratched and marked (not sure how it gets scratched and marked when encased in plastic).  Buyer escalates to claim of refund and return.  Paypal puts money on hold while item comes back.  The shipment arrives with the box, the case, the certificate and no coin.  At this point for Paypal, it's buyers word against my word.  I submitted the following facts to Paypal:

1.  The envelope dimensions were both identical (as proven by the shipping forms).  However the weight of the package I sent was about 70 grams heavier than the one I received back.

2.  The eBay picture CLEARLY shows the coin encased in plastic and with no marks.  

3.  As for character evidence, the buyer has been an eBay member for 6 months and has four positive ratings.  I have been an eBay member for 14 years and have 29 positive results.  

PayPal ignored these three significant pieces of evidence and sided with the buyer.  I am out a coin and have no money for the sale.  Theft and Fraud, plain and simple.  

I have appealed, but guessing that eBay and PayPal will ignore it.  The lessons I have learned are as follows:

1.  NEVER agree to the refund and return policy. If you get fewer buyers, so be it....your feedback rating should speak for itself.  

2.  If you do agree to a refund and return, take a video camera to the post office.  They won't let you open a package without signing for it, so shoot a video of yourself signing for it and opening it on the spot, with the clerk watching.  If your item is in the package, great.  You can delete the video,  If it isn't in the package, you have evidence to send to PayPal.  I signed for the package and opened it at home--likely the signing was the big evidence for PayPal.  I signed that the PACKAGE was received.  I did not sign that the ITEM as received.