eBay

gazer-sky · ‎09-25-2013

I am thinking of selling a jean jacket internationally, I folded it in a large envelope and went to Canada Post to get an idea of how much it would cost to ship. The cost was high $40s (depending on destination) just to ship it ground! The mail person was even nice enough to print the costs for me because I was a surprised at the amount.

I come back and do a search for more or less similar items selling from Canada. I see stuff at auction or even 'buy it now' of ~$30 and Canada Post shipping in $20 range. If the postage amount I was quoted is correct these sellers will make nothing or in a couple of cases I saw lose money.

What am I missing here? Is there is a shipping trick that I should learn? Thanks 🙂

recped · ‎09-25-2013

How much did it weigh and where were you sending it to?

"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.

rose-dee · ‎09-25-2013

@gazer-sky wrote:
If the postage amount I was quoted is correct these sellers will make nothing or in a couple of cases I saw lose money.

What am I missing here? Is there is a shipping trick that I should learn? Thanks 🙂

What you've seen in other listings is probably not a mistake. Many sellers quietly "subsidize" their buyers' shipping costs in the hope that volume will offset some of the losses. I know I do. Buyers are unaware that the very reasonable cost they pay for shipping is not the real cost to me. Free shipping is becoming more and more available, and that presents further challenges for sellers.

The only "trick" is to learn to balance shipping costs against your sales volume and item types, size and value. Having small, lightweight items that can go by international Small or Light Packet helps, but there's no insurance. Having small, lightweight but valuable items (say over $150) may be worth shipping with tracking internationally, but anything over 1kg internationally will be extremely expensive. There are also the outrageously high customs charges going into many European destinations that, like it or not, buyers will associate with you and the cost of your item. For other international destinations, postal inefficiency or outright fraud are rife, so loss is a far bigger risk than elsewhere.

It's not always as simple as just putting an item in a bubble envelope, sending it off, and expecting it will be delivered, as we expect here in Canada (or the US). In my view some items just aren't worth selling internationally -- you can set restrictions when you list the item specifying that you'll only ship to Canada and the US. A majority of your buyers will be in the US anyway. Unless you have top designer brands to sell by the hundreds, you'll probably do better to stick to Canada and the U.S.

Personally, I would never use surface shipping internationally - as if there aren't already enough risks in selling outside Canada and the US, it's an almost certain recipe for problems.

gazer-sky · ‎09-25-2013

@recped Thanks. It is just over 1 kilo (it's denim, not exactly the most lightweight clothes ever) I asked about cost to ship to Germany. Who knows if I can push it to under 1 kilo somehow but probably not. Does the ~$40 make sense?

@rose-dee Thanks for the reply, very helpful. I have had limited experience with shipping to China (smaller item) it went well finally but took long to get there. Very good chance I will exclude numerous places in up coming auctions, not just this jean.

Now to decide if it's worth auctioning, Not looking good hehe.

pjcdn2005 · ‎09-25-2013

A 1.2kg package to Germany would cost $44 by small packet international air - no delivery confirmation, no insurance

A 1.2kg package to Germany would cost $20 by small packet international surface - no delivery confirmation, no insurance

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If you want delivery confirmation, the cost would be $43 by surface and $65 by air.

You can find out this information by using the CP calculator http://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s6

For myself, I would use small packet air and not worry about del confirmation or insurance but that is up to you. Surface mail overseas can take from 3 weeks to approx 2 months so many ebay sellers do not use that as most buyers will want to file a claim before the 45 day limit is up.

gazer-sky · ‎09-25-2013

@pjcdn2005 Thanks. Generally speaking, not just for my case, I really wonder who would buy a jacket if the auction amount is $30 but they have to pay over $70...

recped · ‎09-25-2013

@gazer-sky wrote:
@pjcdn2005 Thanks. Generally speaking, not just for my case, I really wonder who would buy a jacket if the auction amount is $30 but they have to pay over $70...

They might if you have the only one available or the competition is charging $200 for the same thing!

I sell quite a few $5 items with $15 shipping, I can do it because either I have the only one on eBay or $20 total is as cheap or cheaper than others on eBay or the price to buy locally, if that's even possible, is a lot more than $20.

"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.

gazer-sky · ‎09-25-2013

@recped. Thanks, you are right of course.

toff3 · ‎09-26-2013

Gazer,

In your original post, you wrote that the postal clerk told you that the postage on your surface international parcel would be in the "high $40s" yet you accepted, without comment, PJ's quote (which was correct) of $20 for a 1.2 kg surface Small Packet to Germany. That's quite a difference!

I suspect that the postal clerk gave you a quote for an International Parcel - Surface weighing 1.2 kg to Germany: $37.55 + fuel surcharge, for a total of $40. Did he or she not give you the Small Packet rates?

It all goes to show that you need to educate yourself on the subject of postal rates and regulations and not rely on Retail Postal Outlet staff - too many of them just don't know the ropes. Sadly, it's a fact of life.

Tom

mr.elmwood · ‎09-26-2013

PO clerks are required to upsell. They start with the most costly options, extoll their virtues, smile and nod. ALL outlets, whether CP or RPO, have sales targets and average sale targets.

RPO I used to deal with before moving, day shift had higher average sales than the evening and weekend. Why? Part time kids on evenings and weekends did not care. They were not going to follow established P&P.

ALL retail is like this: "Would you like fries with that?".

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femmefan1946 · ‎09-26-2013

Ahh, mr. elmwood, so cynical.... and yet so correct.

Free shipping is becoming more and more available, and that presents further challenges for sellers. - rose dee

If your item is unusual or unique the shipping cost will not matter to the overseas buyer. I like to recall the American seller who was purchasing Secret Deodorant at her corner drug store and reselling it into Germany where the product was unavailable (except possibly at US army bases) and yet had a cult following.

I sold a book last week with a Fixed Price of $9.95 for which the Norwegian buyer paid $20 Light Packet shipping.

Keep in mind by the way that Free Shipping really means that your domestic shipping cost is folded into the asking price. If you want $10 for the item and Canadian shipping will be $10, you offer it at $20 with FreeShipping. Then your US customer, whose shipping would normally be $15 is given a Flat Rate for shipping of $5 and your overseas customer for whom shipping will be $20 actually pays $10. Flat Rate.

And customers love it.

If you can offer Free Shipping domestically, you don't pay shipping FVF on any of your shipping, even to Kazahkistan.

mr.elmwood · ‎09-26-2013

Femme, LOL, I am one of the most UN-cynical people you will ever meet. I have to purposely work on keeping my defenses up or "There is one born every minute". I was the one in my minute! FDPMSL

Where I worked we had KPI, key performance indicators: units per labour hour, $ per unit, $ per transaction, sales $ per labour $, sales per square foot, etc.

I was unamused when they closed the RPO in the 7-11 by where I lived. Like Doris said "I can make more profit selling potato chips".

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gazer-sky · ‎09-26-2013

@toff3 Thanks. I am sure PJ and you are all correct, about the clerk as well. Part of the reason I didn't say anything about the $20 was that I wouldn't want to offer surface either way. Surface only came up for me because the clerk supposedly wanted to find me the cheapest method.

When I put the item up on ebay I will make sure about accurate air mail.

toff3 · ‎09-27-2013

Femme,

You seem to be patting yourself on the back for hitting your uncomplaining Norwegian buyer with a shipping charge of $20 for a Light Packet costing $17.75 in postage, pocketing a nice little $2.25 handling fee for yourself. That very same package sent Letter-post would have cost $15.20 in postage - rich enough but at least significantly less.

Personally, I am acutely embarrassed by the exorbitant postage rates Canada Post forces me to charge, exemplified by the unspeakable Light Packet ripoff, and try my utmost to keep the shipping charge as low as possible. With Canada Post's rates being what they are, there's no way I can justify charging my customers for handling. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

It's lucky your buyer was in Norway, where postage rates are so high they'd make even Canadians turn pale.

Tom

toff3 · ‎09-27-2013

Gazer,

I'm not sure you understand me fully. You were given seriously incorrect information by the postal clerk.

That has nothing to do with Mr. Elmwood's theory that any retail sales clerk is obliged to try and extract the maximum amount of revenue from his or her customers. The best sales clerk is the one who knows his or her products.

Tom

rose-dee · ‎09-27-2013

@femmefan1946 wrote:

Free shipping is becoming more and more available, and that presents further challenges for sellers. - rose dee

If your item is unusual or unique the shipping cost will not matter to the overseas buyer. [...]
I sold a book last week with a Fixed Price of $9.95 for which the Norwegian buyer paid $20 Light Packet shipping.

Keep in mind by the way that Free Shipping really means that your domestic shipping cost is folded into the asking price. If you want $10 for the item and Canadian shipping will be $10, you offer it at $20 with FreeShipping. Then your US customer, whose shipping would normally be $15 is given a Flat Rate for shipping of $5 and your overseas customer for whom shipping will be $20 actually pays $10. Flat Rate.
And customers love it.
If you can offer Free Shipping domestically, you don't pay shipping FVF on any of your shipping, even to Kazahkistan.

'femme-fan' -- I was actually referring to free shipping to the U.S. being a big challenge for Canadians (I should have been more specific). I understand the principle of folding domestic shipping into asking price in order to cover other shipping "subsidies", but it is much more challenging when selling items to the US or overseas that are of greatly different sizes, shapes, weights and values (which I do).

In my case, I really have to use a different strategy than a seller whose products are mostly of a similar type and size. I tend to "upgrade" my buyers' shipping at no cost to them as a sort of surprise perk on the higher priced items, and give discounted (or free) shipping on the smaller, less costly items going to the U.S. I know I lose some money on shipping, but like 'toff', I just can't in all good faith justify charging my buyers full shipping.

I've accepted the fact that rising shipping costs are always going to make me, as a Canadian seller, less competitive vis-a-vis US sellers, and as a result, my view is that I'd rather compete with good pricing and quality and unusual items than recouping money on shipping. I'm not sure what the OP is planning to sell (besides jean jackets), but I meant to point out that free shipping can be an issue if he's going to be carrying a wide range of item types that he expects to ship outside Canada, primarily because many US eBay sellers are now offering free shipping domestically, as are many other eCommerce sites. Once US buyers get accustomed to the idea of free shipping, Canadian sellers may have little choice but to offer it internationally (i.e. to the US).

The other challenge with offering free shipping is the question of how much of your domestic shipping cost you can afford to roll into item price without falling behind competitors' prices, especially as shipping costs rise every year. It's perhaps easier with higher-priced items than, say a $10 product. I think there is a point though where it will become counter-productive, i.e. when the total price begins to be above US competitors' pricing. The exceptions, as you and others have pointed out, are probably unique or OOAK items.

Offering free (or very low) shipping domestically is one way I too manage to offset some of my shipping costs via lower FVFs, but again, much depends on size, weight and value of items shipped outside Canada. It isn't a great deal of help to save $2.00 in FVFs and have to spend $5.00 elsewhere. In the end, for me and what I sell, it's always a delicate balancing act.

Shipping ... there's no simple, universally applicable answer. The OP will just have to try out various strategies until he finds the ones that work for his business.

rose-dee · ‎09-27-2013

@mr.elmwood wrote:
Femme, LOL, I am one of the most UN-cynical people you will ever meet. I have to purposely work on keeping my defenses up or "There is one born every minute". I was the one in my minute! FDPMSL

Can you translate "FDPMSL" please? This is the second time this week I've seen you mention it -- or is it too verboten on eBay to spell out?

On the subject of postal clerks, I have to say that I have nothing but praise for my local PO lady, but then it's a real, old-fashioned post office, not a drugstore counter. Yesterday I bought some shipping boxes and she actually reminded me to pull out my Venture card (which I keep forgetting to do since I usually buy shipping boxes online). She saved me a few dollars she didn't have to.

gazer-sky · ‎09-27-2013

@toff3 I think I understood, I just have to make sure I am paying the correct regular/air shipping at the post office, based on the information in this discussion and the CP site too. The original price was quoted for ground which I wasn't going to do, it was only given to me to show me what is the "cheapest"