eBay

kashka · ‎08-15-2014

With the new Fall update,from what I understand (barely) is it only US sellers (domestic) that will have to pay for the return shipping if a buyer decides an item is SNAD? I checked the weekly .ca chat and Pierre asked if this would apply to Canadian sellers and it seems .ca doesn't know yet and are "ironing" out the details.Am I reading this right?..as this will be the final nail for me if it is. I sell..or at least used to sell on .com.Thanks

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-17-2014

com refers to "domestic" transactions only where sellers will have to pay return postage for snad returns while .ca refers to all transactions, domestic and international.

The ebay Money Back Guarantee requires that sellers on both sites will have to pay return shipping for domestic and international buyers if the item is not as described.

Are you referring to the User Agreement Update?

It does say that hassle free returns are for domestic transactions only but as mentioned, that is separate from the ebay Money Back Guarantee that will be for .com and .ca

If you look at the .com user agreement update MBG section and on the link that you gave for the .com MBG page, neither of them specify domestic or international transactions. (although I think that they should)

It is specified on the .com Fall update on the following page under FAQ

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/fallupdate2014/after-sale-experience-details.html#highl...

When do I have to pay for return shipping

If your policy indicates that you pay for return shipping, then you will be charged for return shipping. Otherwise, the responsibility for return shipping charge is determined by the reason the buyer chooses when requesting a return. If your buyer indicates they are returning an item because they changed their mind, they are responsible for return shipping. However, if the buyer requests a return because there’s a problem with the item or the item is not as described, then you will be responsible for return shipping. This policy applies to all transactions on ebay.com for domestic and international buyers.

Unless there is information that I'm not seeing, I think that you are comparing the terms of the hassle free returns program on .com to the MBG on .ca but you have to compare the MBG on both sites.

kashka · ‎08-17-2014

So why don't they just have one return policy??

MBG,HFS..M.O.U.S.E.

One return policy..the same on all sites..the same for all sellers..done.

Oh yeah..I forgot..C.O.R.P.O.R.A.T.I.O.N.

pierrelebel · ‎08-18-2014

I really appreciate your efforts in attempting to make me understand those return policies. It is not easy for us senior citizens to always understand the "fine print".

What does not make sense to me, and I am having a real problem understanding it, is the difference on eBay.com between the "hassle free return" and "eBay Money Back Guarantee" policy.

The way I read it, "hassle free return" more or less becomes a reality for all sellers on eBay.com for domestic transactions (USA) late 2015 while the "Money Back Guarantee" (all transactions including international) takes effect on both eBay.com and eBay.ca.

What is the point of having two competing policies on .com? One (HFR) requiring sellers to reimburse return shipping for domestic transactions only and one (MBG) for all transactions (including international)?

I also do not understand why eBay.com seem to have most answers to the new "Money Back Guarantee" policy while eBay.ca clearly states "we are still working on it" when User Agreements on both sites are meant to be the same.

lukey9 · ‎08-18-2014

It would be nice if they waited till the first of the year before they start this program and they should have all the kinks worked out by then. If there is going to be a 30 day time period for them to tell us it will be getting on close to Christmas and there is always delays during that time.

If I was betting man I would say we will see it soon rather than later

rose-dee · ‎08-18-2014

@pierrelebel wrote:
It is not easy for us senior citizens to always understand the "fine print".

Don't worry, it isn't just you. I have many of the same objections and have been shaking my head in disbelief.

It's not that I can't grasp the details of these various policies and programmes (although I think perhaps 'pj' believes that's the problem here), but rather that logic and common sense can't grasp the rationale behind the apparent contradictions and conflicting messages we're getting -- not to mention the plethora of names eBay has come up with for variations on the same theme.

Perhaps someone needs to fire a few of the knuckleheads who are responsible for building this weird edifice of policy, and start from a completely blank slate. Or, as I posited earlier, let sellers live and die in the marketplace by their own return policies.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-18-2014

It's not that I can't grasp the details of these various policies and programmes (although I think perhaps 'pj' believes that's the problem here),

Please don't assume. However, when someone posts that something is as clear as mud and uses statements like "I have no idea....." that does suggest that there are details they don't understand. But my posts were not aimed at you anyway. Others, including the OP were not clear on the details so I was just trying to help out. I often don't understand all of the details but when someone says that they are confused about something new, I try to help by explaining the changes that I do understand. Whether or not I agree with the changes, I find that it helps more to try and answer their questions rather than just complaining about the situation but that's just me.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-18-2014

I don't think that it has anything to do with being a senior. I thought the spring update on defects was confusing, this is even more so. It's a lot of information and because it varies between the 2 sites, that makes it more confusing.

It's a beautiful day here and time to take the dog to the off leash park. I might post later on as I find that writing about something helps me understand it better.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-19-2014

I'm not sure why they have both programs but they have both been in place for a while now so they aren't new for .com. I can understand why international returns are not put through the HFR because it is quite automated and in most cases, a return label is issued automatically and doing that for a package that was starting out in another country would be more complicated. Plus, the cost for return shipping is supposed to be comparable and I don't know how that would be figured out automatically.

I actually haven't noticed anything in the .com update that states how much the seller would have to pay for an international label when a snad case was opened so perhaps they are trying to figure out how to work that on both .com and .ca. Or perhaps I just missed seeing the information for .com

It is crazy that they announce these things and don't have all of the details worked out. It is all very confusing which is probably a symptom of a company trying to micromanage thousands of individual sellers.

pierrelebel · ‎08-19-2014

"I actually haven't noticed anything in the .com update that states how much the seller would have to pay for an international label when a snad case was opened so perhaps they are trying to figure out how to work that on both .com and .ca."

This is a major factor in my confusion. On one hand a senior eBay executive states that sellers in Canada are treated the same as sellers in the USA - User Agreements are supposed to be the same - yet, at first glance, Canadian sellers are responsible to pay return shipping from overseas when Americans are not. That question has NOT been answered clearly by eBay.ca staff.

The question was raised again yesterday morning on the "2014 Fall Seller Update" thread following a comment from eBay staff "we will resume our participation in this discussion."

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Updates/2014-Fall-Seller-Update/td-p/257149/page/2

My comments have not been addressed yet.

So I remain confused.

holdmygold2 · ‎08-19-2014

The real question is: "Will this result in sellers being more careful with descriptions or will it result in more returns?"

I'm guessing that the former is the case.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-19-2014

Canadian sellers are responsible to pay return shipping from overseas when Americans are not. That question has NOT been answered clearly by eBay.ca staff.

Why do you say that? As mentioned in post 21, the .com fall update states that .com sellers will be required to pay return shipping for domestic and international sales when an item is not as described. I believe that it is mentioned in the exact same place in both .ca and .com updates so unless I missed something, I'm not sure why you would say that.

pierrelebel · ‎08-19-2014

Why? Obviously I am confused.

From eBay.com:

"The buyer’s shipping address and your return address are in the US "

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/build-your-business-online/deliver-great-service/hasslefreer...

I realize this is Hassle Free Return program available only to Americans (or is it available to Canadians who list on eBay.com and ship from the USA?)

That program will basically cover all American sellers on eBay.com by the Fall of 2015 where they will be responsible to pay for return shipping in case of Goods not as described for domestic transactions. Clearly that program only applies to American domestic transactions.

Why the Fall of 2015 if the new (improved) Buyer guarantee force sellers to pay return postage starting next month in the same circumstances for all transactions, including international?

Am I the only one to see a contradiction?

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-20-2014

Why the Fall of 2015 if the new (improved) Buyer guarantee force sellers to pay return postage starting next month in the same circumstances for all transactions, including international?

I'm sorry, I guess that I'm being obtuse but I don't know what you are really asking or what you are suggesting.

Are you asking why opt sellers into it at all since they will already have the Money back guarantee program?

If that's what you are asking I imagine that they are doing it because they want to streamline (or their idea of streamline) the return process for sellers that accept returns. The MBG doesn't do that.

OR

Are you asking why wait until the fall of 2015?

OR are you asking something else?

Are you suggesting that in the fall of 2015 U.S. sellers will only have to use the HFR and therefore not refund internationally?

For some reason I just don't see how you equate opting sellers into HFR as meaning that U.S. sellers won't have to refund internationally. They will still have the MBG available for sellers that don't accept returns and for international refunds for items not as described.

pierrelebel · ‎08-22-2014

Finally, I think my confusion is over.

Posts #74, 75 and 76 on the 2024 Fall Seller Update thread clear the fog!

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Updates/2014-Fall-Seller-Update/td-p/257149/page/2

To summarize:

Canadian sellers are responsible to pay return postage under the eBay.com policy IF the buyer places his bid or buy-it-now on eBay.com, regardless of where the buyer resides (Canada, USA or overseas) and regardless of where the Canadian seller may have listed the item (eBay.ca or eBay.com).

holdmygold2 · ‎08-22-2014

Therefore, are American sellers responsible for return shipping from Canada to the States if a Canadian buyer purchases on eBay.com as well?

pierrelebel · ‎08-22-2014

I think so - as it would follow the same logic.

However, when you think about it for a minute or two, it suggests that Canadians at this time should buy only on eBay.com (not eBay.ca) for maximum protection.

Is that what eBay.ca really wants?

holdmygold2 · ‎08-22-2014

Could backfire on so many levels.

pierrelebel · ‎08-22-2014

Yes.

To be candid, I have a hard time understanding why eBay.ca was not ready to implement the same Money Back Guarantee (MBG) program as eBay.com considering Canadians buy on both sites and sell on both sites (regardless where they actually list).

These policy changes are planned months ahead of time and generally announced 30+ days before they take effect.

Why would the folks in San Jose ignore Canadians once again? I realize we collectively account for slightly less than one percent of the total volume generated on eBay but that is not a valid reason to ignore us.

rose-dee · ‎08-24-2014

@pierrelebel wrote:

To summarize:

Canadian sellers are responsible to pay return postage under the eBay.com policy IF the buyer places his bid or buy-it-now on eBay.com, regardless of where the buyer resides (Canada, USA or overseas) and regardless of where the Canadian seller may have listed the item (eBay.ca or eBay.com).

I imagine this would be the case for most items purchased from Canadian sellers (including by Canadians who shop on .com), unless those sellers had a strong contingent of Canadian buyers shopping exclusively on eBay.ca.

Which means, by extension, the policy will apply to a large number, if not the majority, of Canadian sellers. I wish they could have made this clear in the first place.

Do you think the ultimate goal is to phase out any differences between .ca and .com, making Canadian sellers effectively irrelevant as a group?

femmefan1946 · ‎08-24-2014

Whether or not I agree with the changes, I find that it helps more to try and answer their questions rather than just complaining about the situation but that's just me.

And it is appreciated.