The Official Canadian PS Politics Thread

[lynxamania]

Since the US PS Forums have it I decided we should start a thread discussing politics here in Canada and abroad. Let me know if we can keep this thread going!

[alero0]

Yes we need more doctors but it's not a case of recuiting, it's a Case of making it more attractive to work here. I'm talking $$. Why would a doctor want to work in Canada when they can cross the border and make a lot more $$. It's true that there are many doctors from other countries who have medical degrees but do they meet up with the standards that we've set for safe medical help. If these people pass the tests they will be able to practice here.

Harvey

[shoplineca]

Rob
My wife works with a couple of Doctors who practised in Somalia for over 15 years before coming to Canada. In Canada, one of them works as a Infant Development Worker (same as my wife) and while a respected and difficult profession, no where near that of a doctor.

These people, while appreciative of living here are extremely frustrated at not being able to practise in some larger or greater way, their profession.

I dont disagree that we should make certain that they are up to our standards but I know for a fact, many exceed our standards or at least those being practised by some of the bozos that call themeselves canadian doctors.

Harvey, we have Canadians that have graduated medical school outside of Canada that are not allowed to practise here.

A well known Cdn author and radio commentator (Rob he is on CFRA in the afternoons, Michael Harris), his daughter just graduated 4 months ago from a medical university in the US Virgin Islands. She made the Dean's list and graduated top of her class with full honours and she cannot get a job in residency in Canada.

Her educations and early skills likely surpass more experienced physicians, the university standards as high or higher than ours and she is a Canadian wanting to practise medicine at home.

From what I last heard, she is working for a US Hospital as an intern, another loss due to our system.

You would think that we could use these people in some of our far reaching communities where there are no doctors during a training period where we could fast-track them into our medical system.

Better to die becuase there was no ambulance to pick you up, or no hospital bed to put you in or no doctor to diagnose something which could develop into something fatal than put us in the hands of a non-Canadian.

This is true for engineers and many oter professions.

There was a time I feared for my rights to get a job over someone who just came to this country but as I have not worked for anyone since 1991, I would more favour a market where the best qualified got the job PERIOD.

Lets rid ourselves of putting any minority group ahead of another on that basis, be it for language, race or religion.

I cannot understand a nation (Canada) that is against racial, religious or language prejudice, hire and promote on the basis race, religion and language. NO MORE QUOTAS!!!!!

Speaking of quotas, how about a Premiere that gets elected on promises such as increasing nursing staff and just this last week sent out 1,400 pink slips to Ontario nurses.

Who increased the number of MRIs in Ontario by buying out all the private MRI clinics after making illegal for them to operate and we now run them 6 hours per day at a higher cost instead of the 14 hour days they ran for less money under private ownership.

The reality is politicians should keep the heck out of the majority of things their noses are in. It is nothing more than power and money and the 'majority' of them are in it for both.

Malcolm

[lynxamania]

Its not right that the Premier of Ontario is doing this, here is a guy the Ontario people wanted in power, they wanted to get out of the darkness of the Harris era (some may argue Eves brought it to light, but the majority wanted this change), but the Premier's performance is more like a grade of F so far. The most optimistic thing he has done is raise the Minimum wage rate in Ontario for a 4 Year period (he has also created a new ban law starting 2006 regarding smoking in public places, which is debateable), but the thing is the wage should have gone up anyway since it was frozen for nearly 7 years or so, and we have to take inflation into consideration etc, but from all the wrong he has done so far its not what we in Ontario were looking forward to.

Cutting back 45 Mil from Sick Kids Hospital, to a Health Minister who is bullying around the health care system and hospitals, to a new Ontario Health Premium Tax for the 2004 tax year and beyond, etc etc. The premier is not looking favorable at all by far and it looks like the Conservatives may be back in power in a few years.

In my opinion, which is just an opinion and no one has to agree with me, is that we in Ontario need to get this government into a Minority Status, I would support either a Liberal, Conservative or NDP minority, as long as it is a minority government, in order to bring a balance in parlaiment.

Just my two cents.

[shoplineca]

Sorry, I could never support the NDP. They nearly bankrupted this Province. Fortunately for me I lived in the US for most of their reign over Ontario.

I never supported Dalton but I especially lost any respect for him when he joined his wife on the school picket lines some 8 years ago soon after Harris got into Power and the teachers went on strike.

He lost any chance of me ever considering to vote for him after that.

Harris said what he was going to do and he did it. At times he made mistakes and at times those mistakes were costly but he kept his word and he returned this province back to financial prosperity.

On the other hand Ernie was the sole reason the conservatives didnt win in the last election. He should have known to step aside however his own pride got in the way and he did what he thought was best for Ernie and not for the party.

Ontario is a very fickle Province, politically. An interesting one, to say the least. To have flip flopped with such large majority governments between Conservative to Liberal to NDP to Conservative to Liberal, well you wont get bored wondering who is going to run the province next election. Its all up in the air.

I suppose alot has to do with Toronto. The seat of the nation's economy, Bay street, stock markets, corporate offices and a socialistic government running the municipality.

Where else but in Canada?

Malcolm

[rd1000]

Harvey,

I don't think it is a matter of passing tests. I stand to be corrected, but I believe they have to go to medical school for the full term. If it was a matter of passing tests, that would be reasonable and expected.

Ahhhhh McGinty. Now there is a testament to recall legislation if ever there was one. If it wasn't our tax dollars and services at stake, it would be comical.

Even the media and other politicians are not afraid to use the word "lie" anymore. The Liberals can't deny it and they know it. And yet he continues. I am absolutely positive I heard him on radio ads after the "fee", I mean "tax", I mean "fee", took effect promising more nurses and doctors. And what does he announce a year later...1400 nurse layoffs. He promised more MRI's. Well we got em. He bought 6, unfortunately they were already operating private clinics. Is there an Ontario Liberal (willing to admit it) that could explain all this logic to a not-to-bright, knuckle dragging, neanderthal conservative?

Malcolm,

I listen to Michale Harris. There is a lot I disagree with, but he is a sensible, logical and fair . I have a lot of respect for him. If I ever finish this schooling, I hope to read all his books.

As for foreign trained doctors, I guess since Canada has the best health care system in the world and nobody can show us anything, then we must be the only ones that know how to educate a doctor too.

Rob

[shoplineca]

Rob
I agree with you about Michael Harris (the radio guy). There are times that I cant support him however he is very open to discussions and different points of view and as such, he is probably much like what Canada is becoming.

It was his daughter that he spoke of recently and he was appalled at how the system is treating her. He has written some extremely contraversail books and raised alot of chatter over so many things that are falling apart and corrupt in our system. definately an interesting read for certain.

I have a friend whose daughter is attending Potsdam University in NY at $13,000 USD per year becuase he couldnt get her into our university system as we continue to screw around with our kids lives.

I cant believe that McGinty and his government won the law suit brought on by that tax federation over failed election promises. He signed a bloddy documents stating that he wouldnt increase taxes without a referendum and the Ontario courts find in his favour.

He lived down the street from me until I moved a couple of months ago. Good thing I left because I dont know how I would react if I saw him walking down the street past my place. Same thing with Mayor Bob, another piece of art we have to contend with.

Malcolm

[rd1000]

"I'd like to know what some of you think our Canadian pride should be based on."

Well seeing as you asked...

I am proud of lots of things.

Canda has the greatest health care system in the world. (I know because they keep telling us). It is free. It may take a year to get an MRI, or 2 years for an operation. You may not be able to get a family doctor, or a hospital bed. But gosh darn it...it is free! It may be a few or 10 billion dollars short, but it is free. And by golly, gee whiz we are going make sure it stays just the way it is if it kills us. Figuritively speaking.

We are the most tolerant compassionate nation on the planet. We let anybody with a sad story (truth doesn't really matter) into our great nation. And if a few terrorists, criminals or riffraff manage to slip by our ever vigilant immigration department, well...golly gee whiz that is just the price of compassion.

And speaking of compassion, our own fine upstanding citizens are treated no less fairly. We have the most understanding judges in the world. You may have have pushed a veteran in front of a train to his death, or beat up and broken a few bones of an 80 year old lady while trying to snatch her purse, but by golly, we are going to make sure you get the counselling you need. You may have to live with Mommy, give up your cell phone and be grounded for a while, but you will get the help you need. I am proud to know that if I ever break the law, the justice system is there to help me.

Our nation repects the rights of minorities, especially when it comes to language. We are respected around the world for our acceptance and support of two official languages. Want proof? 60 000 anglophones were allowed to leave the province of Quebec of their own free will to start businesses, educate their children, and work in their native English tongue. And our federal government did not once interfere in their migration. It is heartwarming to know that I can move anytime I want to practice the English language.

We have one of the finest examples of democracy in the free world. Why, 40% of our citizens take the time out of their busy day to go vote federally. And it takes a whopping 36% of those to elect a majority government. Now there is democracy in action. And to top it all off, this duly elected leader of our country makes absolutely certain that 2500 of the most intelligent, deserving, capable, and qualified individuals are appointed as judges, diplomats, senior level beaurcrats, and of course the chamber of somber, second thought. It is a warm, fuzzy feeling I get knowing that decisions like those are not left to the ill-informed and incapable public.

And let's not forget I am free to purchase and own property. No communism here. And if some non-indigenous bird decids to make a nest on my property and the government dares to declare my land a wildlife sanctuary, well by golly I will go straight to the supreme court and scream unconstitutional. Oh wait. I forgot. Property rights are not protected in our constitution. It is the criminals that are protected by our constitution. Silly me.

We can be proud to have the third largest navy and the fourth largest air force in the world. Oh wait. That was in the 50's. Well, golly gee whiz, we can almost keep up with our NATO commitments now. Nobody can dispute that. Well, except maybe the other 25 countries. But they won't say anything. Shh!

And if this isn't enough to make you hang a Canadian flag on your front lawn, here is a few more:

BC pot is rapidly becoming known as some of the best in the world.

You know those standardization tests our kids keep failing? Well worry no more. The education officials are making them easier as we speak. Soon the kids will be passing with flying colors.

Worried about Polygamy? have no fear. The Federal Liberals have quietly commissioned an URGENT study into the constitutional ramifications of polygamy. You know if there is a study, we are in good hands.

And we have an abundance of food. Clean water. DVD players. Stack that up against any third world nation and we are looking pretty good.

But best of ALL!! We have great beer!! Woohoo.

Rob

[rd1000]

Oh God...Mayor Bob. The man with the finger on the pulse of Ottawa. He knows just what we want, and what we want is more taxes. Did you know that Malcolm? You want more taxes. You love to pay taxes. Mayor Bob knows.

Of course I am just one of those "fringe" elements that don't matter.

I don't think McGinty will show his face in public, will he? You probably wouldn't recognize him with the 14 inch nose anyway.

Rob

[lynxamania]

Anyone here know much about the (federally) Canadian Action Party?

[shoplineca]

We dont need any new parties. We need parties that act like different parties such that we can tell the difference between one or the other. Parties that arent afraid to state their platfors on the basis of their beliefs and not public opinion polls.

We dont need a party on the left that sways to the right nor one on the right that sways to the left.

Our parties, Liberal and Conservatives each have the same objective and that is to run the country. How they run it will be pretty much like how the other government would have run it, with few differences.

They all spill their guts and say they wont do this and they will do that but the truth is, they will do whatever to get re-elected and not make alot of dramatic changes.

Harris was the exception in Ontario's Provincial government but Ernie couldnt walk in his shoes as leader when it was time.

Dalton made tons of election promises but is running Ontario how one would expect the Conservatives to have run it, except the Conservatives were running Ontario like how the Liberals would have run it before the Conservatives lost the election.

... and that is probably how the Conservatives lost the election, people couldnt tell the difference between the 2 parties.

And the City of Ottawa has no government. It has a King, or Dictator if you prefer.

Can you imagine that in the Kingdom of Ottawa we had King Bob, King Dalton and King Jean all living here at the same time? Boy and other people think they have it rough where they live.

Must tell you though Rob, your main man is undergoing some inside beatings right now for talking party policy without the party agreeing to it. I predict a change in leaders coming up within the year.

Malcolm

[rd1000]

I remember seeing candidates signs for the Canadian Action Party in the last election. I was pretty frustrated because they were very similar to the Canadian Alliance Party, and I know people that actually got the candidates mixed up.

If I recall it was a very left wing organization. A lot of environment crapola.

Malcolm,

Stephen Harper is always taking a beating. The Liberals sanction an urgent study on the constitutional ramifications of polygamy, and nary a peep from the media. Harper makes a comment that any group could challenge the constitution with the same reasons as gay mariage, and he is labelled a nutcase by the media. Read the papers this morning. Harper advertises in minority papers and he is a racist. Journalists submit commentary and call it news.

It doesn't matter who is leader of the Canadian Alliance Party. The media will rake them over the coals. Mike Harris mentioned briefly that he may run for a united conservative party, and the media immediately published tabloid style crap about his girlfriends divorce details. He said forget it..I am not putting my family through this.

The Liberals steal, lie, persecute, cheat and manipulate and the media hardly gives it a second glance. When is the last time you saw a headline on adscam?

I hope Harper stays put. He would make an excellent Prime Minister.

Rob

[barriemetals]

I think that we as Canadians have pride and lots of it. Americans on the other hand are more outspoken about there National pride. This is sometimes misconstrued as a more pride. As canadians we have a certain "know" about how good our country we are less outspoken because we realize that national pride is not something that actually makes a difference in our every day lives. We also don't single out and demonize non patriots (a la MacCarthyism). I think that not refering to the american system of patriotism is oine of the things that makes us distinct from out neighbours to the south.

On a different note did anybody hear the comments Stephen Harper made in the last week? I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts on that.

Also I was reading that Bush had taken a more harsher stance on Missle Defence during the meeting in NOV. then was previously stated. Paul Martin still did not give in. Allow I am for defending our country I applaud Mr. Martin's beleif that we as a country have our own needs and as such can meet them ourselves without having to turn to the US. GO CANADA!


Barrie Metals.

[lynxamania]

From what I know about Canadian Action is that they are a left-wing party but they seem to claim that they are anti-new world order from what I hear.

Well GWB most likely came to Canada for many reasons. He wanted to meet with the opposition and he did have a one-on-one session with Harper, now isn't that strange its not like Martin had a one-on-one session with Kerry last year. GWB also wanted to continue Missile Defense which is the obvious. GWB, I believe also has plans for the Northcom initiative established by Rumsfeld (not sure but I beleive he did) a few years back, on there own website they have the North American map as part of Northcom anyway. There were talks a few years back of unionising our Canadian Armed Forces (including Mexico) with the US in which GWB would have control over our military (by far the US currently has access to the Canada Revenue Agency and other information regarding the Citizens of Canada as part of "anti-terrorism" policies), it seems that this is part of the Northcom Initiative and I just hope our Government doesn't stoop to that level, we have defended ourselves in the past from policies like unionising our dollar and so on. The only danger is if another terrorist attack were to occur in either country, I'm sure we'll unionize our military eventually.

As much as being a proud Canadian, I would love to see an enhancement of the 1982 Canada Act which would provide even lesser powers to the constitutional monarchy and even if it was possible abolish the head of state and bring it to the government that would be great, I see no use for a monarchy in Canada other then our relationship with the UK, the fact is our country is still known as the Dominion (Kingdom) of Canada. Its not that I have anything against the British but we need to see ourselves as completely independant (we are but more like 99% since in most cases we would require approval from the Governer General etc), but hey thats just my opinion.

Just my two cents.

[shoplineca]

Rob
I wish that the Conservatives had a real leader for the Federal government and I would likely vote for them and probably work for them throughout the next . The fact of the matter is Harper isnt a strong enough politician to stand up to the job.

Dont tell me that the Mulroney government wasnt as deep or deeper in areas that provided more personal perks for Conservative politicians than benefits for the people of this great country.

In fact some of the areas the Liberals profited from over recent years began under Conservative rule and the Liberals simply inherited the deals.

I could list hundreds of people from both parties whose hands were in the taxpayers' pockets. some deeper than others, but there none the less. I worked with people on contract in Ottawa who profited from the donations of money and assistance they made to the Conservatives during elections (Provincially and Federally).

It goes on here and in other countries and has for generations with the only difference being never has there been a leader as blatant as Chreitien to answer charges with "Its only a few million dollars, big deal".

The country needs a leader to step forward to run the country. I dont care if they call themselves Liberal or Conservative or Republican or Democrat. None of that is of any consequence as there are no true party platforms that differentiate one party over the other greatly.

It may come down to the marriage topic as being the one that casts our fate which is unfortunate. Instead I would love for a true leader to step forward, someone with charisma, intellect and love for Canada, that is independantly wealthy and is running for the good of the people and not for future personal benefit or power.

I bet some of my comments must surprise you Rob as I am certain at one point you would have labelled me a Liberal.

I am a Canadian first who finds less comfort in the thought of Harper running Canada than Martin at the moment, forgetting about which party either of them is with.

Malcolm

[lynxamania]

I also agree that I too would feel less comfortable with Harper running the show. Martin on the other hand being a business-man, many would say hes a bit too soft, and GWB obviously showed us that during his visit. But I'm not here to favor a party over another. I myself believe in the (previously failed) Unionist form of government which had been in power when Borden was in charge and prior, it failed only because it was something the politicians didn't want to continue with, they didn't see that Conservative-Unionists and Liberal-Unionists could get along as cabinet ministers.

Yes we do need a a real leader to stand up to the plate and run the government for the people, which is the true form of democracy, elected by the people for the people. We don't need this power hungry nor corporate only-benefit form of government, we can even see the Liberals themselves, form more power for the government from bills such as C-36 and C-7 (which are the lesser version of the American Patriot Acts 1 and 2, but similar since it violates our freedoms). We cant even tell what Harper's Government (I personally would prefer Belinda, even though shes more pro-corporate and moderate at the same time) or even Duceppe's Government would do if they had come to power theres too much too say.

The way things are, I am happy we have a Minority Liberal federal government for now.

[shoplineca]

Duceppe's government? Holy crap, what are you thinking? How the heck can a separatist run Canada except into the hole?

He is one of the best yet to come from the Bloc to pull the wool over the eyes of Quebecers with his propoganda that has people actually believing that he is good for Quebec.

Duceppe told several hundred Manitobans at a Canadian Club luncheon "Quebec slows Canada down, as Canada slows Quebec..." What garbage is that? It doesnt mean anything.

The only think that I dislike more than a separatist is one who pretends he is not a separtist such as Ducette.
Parizeau made no bones about it, didnt try to disguise it, he wanted to separate the Province PERIOD. However the majority of separatists dont really want separation.

How can Doucette promise the people that Quebec will be separate from Canada but still share many things with Canada (such as our equalization payments to the Province?).

How can you promise what lands would go with the province, what liabilities the Province will carry. How can they adopt our currency, our passports etc etc etc.

Sorry, he is nothing more than a politician playing the game of threatening separatism to maintain control because he knows (with his Federal salary, benefits and pension) that Quebec remains fincially better off within Canada than on its own.

By the way, why does Bouchard draw a federal pension if he was so much against Canada as well as the thousands of other separtists who still work for the Canadian Federal government?

Its all a game that they came close to winning and in turn, came close to loosing the last time around.

Malcolm



Malcolm

[rd1000]

Malcolm,

Mulroney deserved to be defeated in 1993 and this Country did just that. Resoundly. I voted Liberal in 1993 too. Something I now deeply regret.

I just can't understand why we punished Mulroney so bad, but we are so willing to let the Liberals rob us blind.
There has never been a government in the history of this country that deserves to be 100% thrown out of office as the Federal Liberals.

In the words of Mike Harris (author), "The Liberals need to sit on the sidelines for a while".

If we keep voting the Liberals in power, we can expect to have the same results.

Rob

PS - I did peg you for a Liberal. X-)

[lynxamania]

Oh I didn't say I would support a Duceppe Government, I am not a fan of Bloc, I said:

We cant even tell what Harper's Government ("") or even Duceppe's Government would do if they had come to power theres too much too say.

Meaning there are so many things they would do to most likely hurt this country that theres too much to say. The seperatists are stronger then ever, they have gained the most seats in the history of there movement and would probably grow further, and I agree with your statements regarding Duceppe.

Quebec leaving would just be idiotic in my view, I know there are some Canadians who would love to see them go thinking all the problems would be solved if they were gone, but as much as we need them (economically, militarily etc) they really need us. In fact we shouldn't even be saying "they" or "us" cause regardless they are still Canadian, too bad many of them try to distinguish themselves as just Quebecors and keep the flag of Quebec as there nationalistic symbol.

But on the other hand, to say the least Mulroney may have been blamed for placing the country down the hole but he did have no other choice but to impose the GST, in which Jean couldn't take out even though he promised the elimination of GST, it just wasn't possible at the time, as Jean said the country was nearly bankrupt.

Free Trade, now thats a totally different issue. Regardless, I may not be a fan of Mulroney but he will still be remembered also for defeating the opposition in the largest majority victory in the history of Canada in the 1984 elections, we have still yet to see any leader do that.

Besides, didn't Mulroney and Martin have some form of relationship in the past? I might be wrong...

[shoplineca]

Sorry I misread your intention when you suggested Ducette running Canada and wondering what it would be like. I nearly fell off my chair.

Duceete is a well spoken politician who I dont trust because he is not telling it like it is. He is not honest with the Kebeckers and for that he should be held accountable.

Chretien and his army were 90% was responsible for causing Mulroney to win over Turner. Mulroney gets the other 10% credit for catching Turner off guard in the debate.

Perhaps the most professional and powerful policitican that this country will ever see was Jean Chretien. There has never been and likely never will be a man that had such complete control over his party and even the other parties as well as the press and the people.

I hold Chretien and his inside power group and the upper level civil servants who really ran the government responsible.

Rob, there is alot about that former PM that got burried although some of it is coming back to light again such as the Airbus money. I cant get into details but I was privy to some materials that were very comprehensive.

The reality of the matter is this: scandal prevails. Where there is money and power there is corruption. From the municipal level all the way up, whether someone is a Conservative one day and a Bloc the next (Bouchard) or a Conservative one day and a Liberal the next (Charette), people make changes for more power and more financial payoffs and not for the good of the country nor the average Canadian taxpayer.

It would be nice to live in an idealistic world where Liberals were all painted red and Conservatives all painted blue and each had distinct philosophies and ideas and integrety and honesty but that is not Canada, that is not the US, nor any other country that I am aware of.

People do favours to assist politicians get elected and they get payoffs. People continue to support parties and they get rewarded. Politicians sit in power for 2 terms, land a cabinet seat and are set for life with appointments to the Boards of Directors of major corporations for life and honourary positions with law firms where they show up for work 2 times per month.

I was heavily involved (as a young man) in Cdn politics at the Federal and Municipal levels. As a Business Consultant over the last 14 years I have worked several contracts which has made me privy to many things that I wished I didnt know, primarily about our blessed politicians and the wheeling and dealing.

There are few Liberal or Conservative politicians that I would trust to safeguard my wallet, sitting in Parliament now or previously.

Malcolm

[lynxamania]

Thats alright no problem, we can make that mistake sometimes it happens.

As regards to Chretien, he is and probably will always be considered the "Canadian Dictator" by many, regardless he was very unique in his own way, sure he didn't show up at a few meetings/funerals since ski trips/golf were alot more important to him I presume, which I wouldn't want a Prime Minister doing. However, He did use and abuse his power, but then again he even had the power to say NO to GWB and his "Coalition of the Willing" to Iraq. It was hilarious when GWB requested more troops/support for Afghanistan and Jean told him off by saying "We just don't have that kind of money" (not in those exact words).

But here is a question that some should wonder with this amount of power and dictatorship-style politics, why would he step down? Was it because of this up-coming "scandal" I mean we don't exactly have to believe that he "retired". After all Can-Am relations were an all time low and we weren't co-operating with King George (GWB) and I have a feeling (I'm most likely going to stick to it) is that Jean was "told" to step down. Its interesting that his own successor was his previous "opponent".. real strange (maybe he wanted to put all the blame on Martin's shoulder?), don't want to cause any stir here but the point is someone with that type of power, regardless of age would not want to step down that easily, you can look at Castro or Gadafi or anyone other power-hungry leader or dictator. The Hon. Mackenzie King kept going after the elections even with the losses he incurred he still has the record for the most terms as Prime Minister of Canada and I doubt he would have ever wanted to step down, he just went at it, possibly for Power.

Anyway just my two cents.